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OC - Scott Turner incoming


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5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Thats what I was thinking. :ols: almost everyone wanted Turner tarred and feathered 2 weeks ago and now other teams are gonna steal him.

 

Actually, that's how I recall how McVay progressing, as well.

My early memories of him, was of fans complaining how bad his play-calling was.

Next thing you know, he's the next Bill Walsh, practically.

Not saying Turner's path is or will be identical. I just chuckled at that one similarity

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2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Kyle Smith isn't going anywhere--Rivera has raved how well they work together. Title or no, I think he's here for the long-term.

If somebody comes along and offers him a GM job, he'll bolt unless he gets the offer here.  Which I think he will, eventually.  

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GM jobs are 1 of 32. If you get offered one, you are almost assuredly bolting. Those are not every day opportunities and they usually last longer than coaching positions, so there is a bit more job security in it too, as a whole scouting department can easily be jettisoned along with a coaching change.

 

Those positions are more valuable than one of your kidneys. Unless the Jets w/o a 1st overall pick come a knocking, I don't see any talent evaluator turning down that oppo. That would be crazier than a vegan Zombie

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3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Actually, that's how I recall how McVay progressing, as well.

My early memories of him, was of fans complaining how bad his play-calling was.

Next thing you know, he's the next Bill Walsh, practically.

Not saying Turner's path is or will be identical. I just chuckled at that one similarity

Well, hell. We've got people complaining that Chase was a bad pick, sooooo, who just said they thought they were smarter than the average fan (in the game day thread :ols: )

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This is indicative of some of the details we sometimes overlook as fans. Take this for instance. Consider the importance of gaining information on the defense as soon as possible before each snap. You know the D is probably going to disguise their look initially. So our offense would be looking to run motion (to identify the coverage) or Alex would be doing something with the snap count to get the defense to react and show something (i.e. blitzer). But if our offensive players are not in the right position from the start, you have to wait for that guy to get in his spot to start your pre-snap read. Well if the play clock is running down, you may not have to time to audible, change the routes or protections if you need to. Notice my man Cam go to the wrong spot on two consecutive plays. We get the first down. But Alex didn't look happy the second time. The Bengals defense is garbage, so its not as alarming. But the details are important against disciplined defenses.

Edited by joeken24
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Scott Turner is progressing quickly as an O coordinator. He needs stability at the QB position. 

 

I know he doesn't directly coach them but I am so impressed with our Oline this year. Nowhere close to the dumpster fire I expected, especially when Alex is behind center. I have to believe Turner's offensive design plays some role in that. 

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Just now, Florgon79 said:

Why can’t this offense get started until the second half? Doesn’t seem to matter who the QB is. Are we not scripting the first drive? Are we not immediately focusing a defenses weaknesses? Is it all on QB play?

Ding ding ding

 

QBs drive this league and we're so incredibly behind the 8 ball that fans are longing for Alex Smith and his 10 completions for 45 yards type statlines to pilot this offense.

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1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Ding ding ding

 

QBs drive this league and we're so incredibly behind the 8 ball that fans are longing for Alex Smith and his 10 completions for 45 yards type statlines to pilot this offense.

But then why the dramatic turnaround in the second half? Is it just because we are always playing from behind and are forced to throw it? There’s rhythm, just not until it’s too late.

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We start every game flat and predictable. When we do try to get fancy, it is often sloppy. Scott has potential, as shown in our dominant second half, but he has to get better at scripting the opening of games. Maybe base it on attacking the defensive weaknesses instead of the usual run play, swing pass to the RB, 5 yard crossing route.

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16 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

But then why the dramatic turnaround in the second half? Is it just because we are always playing from behind and are forced to throw it? There’s rhythm, just not until it’s too late.

Once defenses are up double digits they play softer to not risk giving up the big play. Easier to put up yards and numbers.

 

Seattle completely took their foot off the gas today. They basically knew they didn't need to score more than 20 and they were right. We did almost make them pay for it though...

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Just now, Warhead36 said:

Once defenses are up double digits they play softer to not risk giving up the big play. Easier to put up yards and numbers.

 

Seattle completely took their foot off the gas today. They basically knew they didn't need to score more than 20 and they were right. We did almost make them pay for it though...

I don’t know man. If the Jets can score one their opening drive 8 games in a row why cant we? What do the Jets have that we don’t?

 

Something is not adding up.

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2 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I don’t know man. If the Jets can score one their opening drive 8 games in a row why cant we? What do the Jets have that we don’t?

 

Something is not adding up.

Yeah that I can't explain at all. We are just horrendous on opening drives. That's about the one thing I'll put on Turner.

 

But for the most part our offensive issues are personnel driven. Like 90% I'd say.

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11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah that I can't explain at all. We are just horrendous on opening drives. That's about the one thing I'll put on Turner.

 

But for the most part our offensive issues are personnel driven. Like 90% I'd say.

Just seems so important for game momentum. Like maybe if we scripted opening drives with success, our players have more confidence. Not just on offense but defense too.

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No matter who is playing QB we cant seem to get anything going offensively in the first half.  At what point do we wonder if Tuner is doing a subpar job at creating an initial gameplan, he doesn't seem to have any problems making halftime adjustments.

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13 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

No matter who is playing QB we cant seem to get anything going offensively in the first half.  At what point do we wonder if Tuner is doing a subpar job at creating an initial gameplan, he doesn't seem to have any problems making halftime adjustments.


I think we intentionally start very conservatively to keep game tight. Play mistake free, remain competitive. That’s were poor turnovers pull the rug from under that logic.

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20 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah that I can't explain at all. We are just horrendous on opening drives. That's about the one thing I'll put on Turner.

 

But for the most part our offensive issues are personnel driven. Like 90% I'd say.

 

I'm not overly worked up over the opening drive thing.  It seems like a made up relevancy and more of a statistical anomaly than anything else.  We can talk about tone setting or whatever, but the opening drive is no more significant than any other one really. Ideally, you'd like to score on every one, but if you got 10 of 'em, you got chances to make it up. They've scored a bunch of times on the second drive. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Probably already said by someone but I have little issues with Turner. When guys like Logan Thomas, JD Mckissic and Cam Simms are having a breakout season with subpar QB play, it suggests that Turner is not an issue. Add to this Gibson a rookie is having a stellar  year despite 2 games missed. Turner is putting these guys in the right spot to succeed.

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On 12/21/2020 at 1:25 PM, justice98 said:

 

I'm not overly worked up over the opening drive thing.  It seems like a made up relevancy and more of a statistical anomaly than anything else.  We can talk about tone setting or whatever, but the opening drive is no more significant than any other one really. Ideally, you'd like to score on every one, but if you got 10 of 'em, you got chances to make it up. They've scored a bunch of times on the second drive. 

 

 

I don't know man. How many more games could we have won if we had set the tone from the start of the game? Especially when you receive the ball first and kick off to start the second half. Imagine being up 10-7 or 14-3 in the first quarter instead of playing down every single first half. I'm sorry but I don't see any benefit to starting games slow on offense. I don't think it's by design as some have alluded, trying to play it safe and not turn the ball over early. I think it's just poor planning. I really hope we score on our opening drive this week, I think it would set the tone for the whole game, not just the second half.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/01/02/washington-football-preview-eagles-week-17/

 

 

Washington is the only team in the NFL that has not scored on its opening possession. This is, in the words of some players, a “second-half team.” Washington has often dug itself a hole during the first two quarters and tried to climb out of it in the final two. It has the league’s third-worst first-half scoring differential (minus-106 points) but the best second-half scoring differential (plus-106).

 

 

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Yeah I'll say the one issue I have with Turner is our slow starts, but to be honest its not just an offense issue. The defense also tends to struggle in first halves of games. It might be more a Rivera issue or just a young team that doesn't really get revved up at the start of games issue.

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With our talent on offense, or lack thereof, Turner should get credit for making Pie out of Poo.

I mean this "pie" won't win any awards, but we're eating it, and remember this pie used to be poo

There should be a POOP award for coaches, for making "Pie Out Of Poo"

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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This is something I would like to see a big improvement on going forward, and hopefully our extremely poor QB play has encouraged this conservative/bad playcalling as we just try to hang in there for our defense to pull us out. But this is bad (second tweet)

 

 

It’s especially disappointing because Turner is at the forefront of a couple of the more progressive offensive playcalling tendencies—he’s big on using pre-snap motion, and has been big on PA passing in the past. Both big indicators of good offense in the modern day. 

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