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OC - Scott Turner incoming


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7 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I'm sure he'll do all of the above.  He shows he can lead block at 6:38 here:

 

Those plays are a couple of good examples of the blocks that the RBs are given in runs out of shotgun split back 20 and 21 personnel option designs that we might see in our new offense.  In the snap at 6:31, it's a zone read and it looks like the TE is lined up in an "H" alignment and he lead blocks for the run through the C gap and the RG kick out blocks the force defender.  In that situation the other back has a relatively low stress assignment of blocking the alley defender in case Gibson has to bounce the run wide.  The next snap is cut off at the beginning so you can't see the alignment, but it looks like the same play except with both WRs on the field side and Gibson lined up weakside.  Looks like Gibson's job is a little different in that he's supposed to block the outside defender and someone else was supposed to pick up that alley defender but they didn't.  But point being, the other back in the splitback alignment is going to be expected to throw some downfield blocks on alley and wide edge defenders, so that responsibility will be diffused to all of our backs.  The OL is doing the heavy lifting on these plays, but our backs are going to be expected to give effort to keep the option to bounce runs wide open or else they're going to have to sit down.

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1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm not gonna evaluate until we get better personnel. Outside of McLaurin and maybe Gibson we have expansion team level talent(if not worse) across the board on offense.

 

Its possible to evaluate an OC's scheme and play calling without having top flight talent on the field.

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

Its possible to evaluate an OC's scheme and play calling without having top flight talent on the field.

I’ll reserve judgment until we draft Michael Westbrook’s, Tre Johnson’s, and Brad Johnson’s kids.

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

Its possible to evaluate an OC's scheme and play calling without having top flight talent on the field.

Eh, kindof.  
 

I think what you can see is how they adapt an offense to the personnel they have.  But you can’t see what they really want to do if they feel limited by personnel.  Scott might really want some down field stuff but knows he just can’t call a game like that because (list all the reasons here) 

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34 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Eh, kindof.  
 

I think what you can see is how they adapt an offense to the personnel they have.  But you can’t see what they really want to do if they feel limited by personnel.  Scott might really want some down field stuff but knows he just can’t call a game like that because (list all the reasons here) 

 

You can tell how well they attack weaknesses in the opposing defenses, how well they do at masking the offense's weaknesses, how well they call a game, how well they make halftime adjustments...i guess i should have said it's possible to evaluate an OC without having top flight talent on the field more so than his scheme. If your OC can only do well when his offense is stocked with talent, that tells you something. Conversely, if an OC can make the offense look like it's stocked with talent even though it isn't, that tells you something as well.

 

 

Edited by Califan007
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The offensive coaching staff has been God awful.  Turner looks absolutely clueless and the OL looks far worse than they ever did under Callahan.  It's clear that Callahan made chicken salad out of chicken **** getting this group of replacement level personnel performing at a respectable level.  And he's now turned around a bad OL in Cleveland to the point where they are dominant.  Our DL with five first round picks on it got dominated by the likes of Joel Bitonio and Wyatt Teller.

 

Our player personnel on offense is bad and our coaches are worse.  Turner looks like the product of good old NFL nepotism.  He was a terrible hire.

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7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The offensive coaching staff has been God awful.  Turner looks absolutely clueless and the OL looks far worse than they ever did under Callahan.  It's clear that Callahan made chicken salad out of chicken **** getting this group of replacement level personnel performing at a respectable level.  

fwiw there were 3 Olineman who were playing last year who are not right now, still pretty putrid stuff though - just not apples to apples 

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5 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

fwiw there were 3 Olineman who were playing last year who are not right now, still pretty putrid stuff though - just not apples to apples 

 

Scherff missed a lot of time last year too, and Penn and Flowers were JAG reclamation projects last year.

 

Our OL drafting has not been good for years, but Callahan was propping up a subpar bad group.  Functional run game with a 34 year old back and a group of mediocrities up front.  And the ability to run a three level passing offense despite having akmost no weapons.  The wheels have come off now.  There is no run game power to speak of and the protection issues are total.  They can't pick up and blitzes or stunts.  They look completely lost and unprepared now, the result of major coaching issues.

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I mean, Turner was a bad OC in Carolina, why would he expect he would all of the sudden become a great one here?

 

If you add a guy like Turner, you are basically saying you think hes not good yet because hes young, but that you think he will learn and grow into a good OC.  But that takes time.  Theres no way you look at this time in Carolina and go "He was bad there but hes going to magically be good in his first few games here".  

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2 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

I mean, Turner was a bad OC in Carolina, why would he expect he would all of the sudden become a great one here?

 

 

Scott Turner? Weird seeing how he was the OC only for the Panthers last four games. 

 

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We lost our ability to run between the tackles/abandoned the attempt to do so.  We need to see if it's part of Gibson's repertoire if we're focusing on evaluating him in a lost season.

 

We also might as well be starting Ismael this year.  Why not?  Charles needs to play too if he's healthy.

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Not sure it's entirely fair to lay this at Turners feet.  Across the board, we losing far more head-to-head battles than we're winning.  We have one legitimate skill player and a bunch of question marks. A very questionable O-line (being kind).  No TE worth a mention and a quarterback controversy to boot.  We're talking very limited offensive talent!

 

And there are no plays called when the instructions include forgetting to block, overthrowing/underthrowing receivers, making the wrong read, running the wrong route and all the other nonsense we're been treated to this year..

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2 hours ago, Peregrine said:

I mean, Turner was a bad OC in Carolina, why would he expect he would all of the sudden become a great one here?

 

If you add a guy like Turner, you are basically saying you think hes not good yet because hes young, but that you think he will learn and grow into a good OC.  But that takes time.  Theres no way you look at this time in Carolina and go "He was bad there but hes going to magically be good in his first few games here".  

 

Man, I ****ing hate it when I agree with you lol...

 

 

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2 hours ago, clietas said:

 

Scott Turner? Weird seeing how he was the OC only for the Panthers last four games. 

 

 

Was he good those 4 games?

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4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Was he good those 4 games?

 

Supposedly only averaged 8 points a game out of garbage time.

 

This guy was a disastrous hire.  It's a major problem having someone this bad in control of the offense for a defense-background head coach who is pretty much checked out.  Especially since we don't have any other capable playcallers in house to take over for him either, as Zampese was a disaster of a playcaller with the Bengals too.

 

This looks like it's going to be a lost year where the offense will be one of the worst in the league no matter what in-house changes we make.  Mid October and I'm looking forward to offseason changes.

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Let’s see what he can do with a qb that can make plays. Rams game he did more getting Allen out of the pocket. Now just have to scheme up some plays downfield. I’m sure he was just trying to get Allen some easy throws and get the rust off and unfortunately lost him before they can open up the playbook. He’s been dealing with statistically the worst qb in the league 2 years in a row. Give him a chance with a better qb.

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I am hopeful with him as he did a good job in the Cleveland and Baltimore games. Cooley absolutely took him down for the gameplan he put together against the Rams. At the end of the day, if KOC was willing to come back, not bringing him back was a huge mistake on Ron's part. KOC is just a better coach and he also had chemistry with Dwayne. I do remember that Ron tried getting Shurmur for the role but he wasn't having it, probably because he'd have to coach Dwayne. I bet Norv is some of unoffical senior offensive assistant but it would help to formally bring some sort of retired OC like Al Saunders on board as a consultant to help Scott out

 

I don't think Ron would demote Scott after a season without a competent QB at the helm but some good OCs will be available this offseason, including Dirk Koetter.

Edited by method man
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This is where our concern should lie. We all knew coming into the season that talent on the offensive side of the ball was limited and expectations were, but what we’re seeing is trash. I’ve said it 100 times, we need a creative offense, we simply can’t win with this scheme. He’s asking our overmatched players to win one-on-one battles on every play and we’re seeing the opposite, as expected. We must get away from vanilla and get the D on their toes or nothing will change.
 

I hate to see Dwayne acting like a child, but this was my defense for why his play plateuad. We will learn a lot in the upcoming game if Kyle Allen is starting (I have no faith in Smith). If Allen looks bad against the giants then we know almost definitively that the qb change was indeed a mistake.

 

i digress... get your **** together turner.

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26 minutes ago, method man said:

I am hopeful with him as he did a good job in the Cleveland and Baltimore games. Cooley absolutely took him down for the gameplan he put together against the Rams. At the end of the day, if KOC was willing to come back, not bringing him back was a huge mistake on Ron's part. KOC is just a better coach and he also had chemistry with Dwayne. I do remember that Ron tried getting Shurmur for the role but he wasn't having it, probably because he'd have to coach Dwayne. I bet Norv is some of unoffical senior offensive assistant but it would help to formally bring some sort of retired OC like Al Saunders on board as a consultant to help Scott out

 

I don't think Ron would demote Scott after a season without a competent QB at the helm but some good OCs will be available this offseason, including Dirk Koetter.

 

It'll be interesting to see what Ron does if Scott's not getting it done by the end of the season.  He'll probably at least give him another year because of the personnel.  He's loyal to the Turner family though.  Which going back to Marty I remember Dan hated that Marty hired his brother to be DC.  But then he allowed Gibbs to hire his soon (though not an important position).  And then he allowed Mike to hire Kyle as OC (which Kyle was good but it caused issues in the building) and now we got Ron hiring his best friend's son to an important post that he really didn't seem qualified for.   The nepotism never ends.

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1 minute ago, celticsalmon said:

Kevin O'Connell, Sean McVey, Kyle Shannahan...were in the house and they left because of Little big man- Snyder!  Our beloved franchise will always be losers as long as Danny owns the team.

 

This hurts to look at. Literally 3 of the top young offensive minds were in house and we let them all go for this. 

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7 minutes ago, celticsalmon said:

Kevin O'Connell, Sean McVey, Kyle Shannahan...were in the house and they left because of Little big man- Snyder!  Our beloved franchise will always be losers as long as Danny owns the team.

 

 

Don't forget Matt LaFleur.  

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