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OC - Scott Turner incoming


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Ron Rivera brings in an OC from a team with a losing record - Redskins fans are all up in arms and the sky is falling.

 

Sean McVay brings in an OC from a team with an even worse losing record - Redskins fans think McVay is a genius.

 

#RedskinsLogic

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3 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

Personally, I dont know why every team doesnt copy the Shanahan run scheme.  You get 5 yards a clip every time you give it to whatever jabronie you put back there.  For like 25 years.  But then you get guys like Gruden that insist their offense that gets you a full yard less per carry is better. 

 

I have wondered the same too, and attribute it to a lack of mobile guys that can do everything else well enough.

 

Here is the thing. If you build your OL to be able to plow for a yard, you are dead in the water when you consistently fail. You have to get away from your tough guy power identity and pass in short yardage.

Edited by RandyHolt
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KOC pulled another Kirk Cousins move.  He did not want his coaching career tied to Haskins performance next season.  He lands with a better team.  If he does well he gets Head Coaching offers in 2021.  We will see if Turner ends up a better offensive coordinator than KOC.  Over the years, a lot of ES posters have over valued coaching and player talent on the Redskins.  Time will tell if Riverboat Ron made the right coaching hires.  Gruden screwed up hiring several defensive coordinators and it contributed to his lousy record. Turner is NOT a seasoned offensive coordinator and neither was KOC.  Time will tell if Coach Zampese can turn Haskins into a viable starting quarterback.

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2 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

He lands with a better team.  If he does well he gets Head Coaching offers in 2021.  

 

Unless he's going to be calling plays for the Rams, I'd call it a downgrade for him. What team is going to go after an OC that's only called 11 games, in a non ideal situation?  

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3 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

 He lands with a better team.  If he does well he gets Head Coaching offers in 2021.  

I dunno. If the Rams do well will anyone give KOC credit or will all the respect go to McVay? I can imagine O'Connell becoming pretty invisible even if the Rams do well.

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59 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Unless he's going to be calling plays for the Rams, I'd call it a downgrade for him. What team is going to go after an OC that's only called 11 games, in a non ideal situation?  

 

32 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I dunno. If the Rams do well will anyone give KOC credit or will all the respect go to McVay? I can imagine O'Connell becoming pretty invisible even if the Rams do well.


You’re offered a HC position just for sniffing McVay’s farts nowadays.  Zac Taylor, HC of the Bengals was the quarterbacks coach for the Rams in 2018 and the assistant WRs coach in 2017. KOC is looking to be the next young hotshot McVay disciple after LeFleur and Taylor. 

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20 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

You’re offered a HC position just for sniffing McVay’s farts nowadays.  Zac Taylor, HC of the Bengals was the quarterbacks coach for the Rams in 2018 and the assistant WRs coach in 2017. KOC is looking to be the next young hotshot McVay disciple after LeFleur and Taylor. 

 

And the 2-14 season he's coming off will probably give other teams pause on continuing that strategy.  He was a terrible hire that appears to be in over his head.  Even the Dolphins got better as the season went on.  All the Bengals have to hang their hat on, is the top pick.  

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4 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

KOC pulled another Kirk Cousins move.  He did not want his coaching career tied to Haskins performance next season.  He lands with a better team.  If he does well he gets Head Coaching offers in 2021.  We will see if Turner ends up a better offensive coordinator than KOC.  Over the years, a lot of ES posters have over valued coaching and player talent on the Redskins.  Time will tell if Riverboat Ron made the right coaching hires.  Gruden screwed up hiring several defensive coordinators and it contributed to his lousy record. Turner is NOT a seasoned offensive coordinator and neither was KOC.  Time will tell if Coach Zampese can turn Haskins into a viable starting quarterback.


He went to a team that is 3rd at best for the conceivable future in their own division,  without many draft picks due to the jax trade, and capped out. McVay will need to pull off a miracle. 

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If KOC does go to the Rams he will have little to no impact on the offense besides working with Goff. Mcvay is not gonna give up play calling. Of course KOC still could get head coaching opportunities ala Zac Taylor. If the Rams offense does well we really won’t know if KOC is responsible for any of it. 

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13 hours ago, megared said:

Unless he's going to be calling plays for the Rams, I'd call it a downgrade for him. What team is going to go after an OC that's only called 11 games, in a non ideal situation?  

 

Profootball talk says he will be calling the plays so at the end of 2020 he will have one year under his belt of calling the plays.  Meanwhile we will see how well Turner does.

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Don't believe McVay would give up playcalling to him, no way. He's in Goff's ear right up until they cut the radios every single play. He's not gonna just trust that to someone he hasn't worked with in years now.

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McVay is basically pulling a young Leo Dicaprio and putting together a "**** posse" coaching staff. Young, handsome, rich and ready to smash all the chicks in LA. It was important to kick old man Wade to the curb -- dude was a total perv who scared a lot of tail away.

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So what’s the thinking on meshing Turner’s pass first mentality and Rivera’s desire to run the ball?

 

 

In regard to our rushing attack, in addition to the issues mentioned previously, I think we’ve also suffered from disjointed personnel.  Scherff is a very good at run blocking, but I think having Moses next to him lessens his impact.  Ditto Trent and the guards he’s played next to.  Scherff (or Trent) block their guy at the next level, but Moses (or Lauvao/Long/etc) let their guy make the tackle.  
That‘s not including our problems with TE blocking.  I do think Hentges had a nice impact in this regard, and should continue to do so.
 

It’s possible we fix the problem this year (Trent next to Flowers and Scherff next to, say Conklin or a 1st round tackle - picked up via trade back), but I think it’s more likely we’re as bad, or worse in this department.  

More dynamic runners - Guice/Love can help, as can play calling... but I think much of it will come down to what the team can pull off with the oline.  Our qb also has to do their part in order to keep defenses honest.

Edited by skinny21
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On 1/11/2020 at 9:43 AM, justice98 said:

Personally, I dont know why every team doesnt copy the Shanahan run scheme.  You get 5 yards a clip every time you give it to whatever jabronie you put back there.  For like 25 years.  But then you get guys like Gruden that insist their offense that gets you a full yard less per carry is better. 

 

Well, we just saw the Titans and Clemson beat two of the highest profile zone running teams in their respective levels of the sport.  Ohio State gashed Clemson with outside zone runs in the first half when Ohio State possessed the ball continuously, and then you saw the adjustment in real time and they shut it down pretty well in the second half.  I think the issue with the scheme is that it's easier for athletic defenses to fit zone runs than power runs because the blocks take longer to develop.  If your DLs and LBers can run, then they can build a wall play-side to force cutbacks into your weak-side defenders, and if you've got athletes there, they can usually flow to the ball pretty easily.  And it also has issues in short yardage situations where the second level guys can fit by gap shooting.

 

I think the general rule is that it's a good scheme for circumventing a powerful defense, but for a leaner and more athletic defense, I think it makes things easier on them not having to anchor gaps against power that's coming downhill at them.

 

It all comes down to building the most talented offensive line that you can so you can run a multitude of blocking schemes and maintain your situational versatility.

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Things could be worse...

 

The Browns took one look at Stefanski abandoning the run against San Francisco and decided, "THIS IS OUR GUY!".

 

And rumor has it they didn't hire McDaniels because McDaniels wanted sweeping organizational change.

 

Another case of a guy who may have been best qualified not being hired because the Browns have a damn good culture already.

 

They hired Stefanski, who goes away from the run entirely too often, on a team that has Nick Chubb (a guy who can be similar to Derrick Henry in the run game)

 

Let that sink in. 

 

Though, to be fair, the Vikings had a near 50/50 run/pass split through the season. But man, seeing them just abandon the run when Cook is a guy who can go for 2, 2, 1, 0, -2, 74, 3, 1, 50 was flabbergasting.

 

I'm also amazed that they didn't do something to account for Greenlaw who was following Cook everywhere he went.

 

I think the Browns were too hasty in their hire and should have waited for Saleh.

Edited by KDawg
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I'm always amazed at how quickly you can become HC  once you've been a coordinator.  You spend years working your way up the low level assistant ranks, but basically one year as a coordinator and you're set.

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32 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I'm always amazed at how quickly you can become HC  once you've been a coordinator.  You spend years working your way up the low level assistant ranks, but basically one year as a coordinator and you're set.

 

Teams will throw away a head coach like its nothing though. These teams have so much money giving up on a guy that you know you have to pay for a few more years is easy. Its a really weird dynamic that shows you just how rich they are.

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16 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

All that's left is for the Rams to trade for Kirk. Between him, McVay and KOC the DC media will collectively climax harder than any man on earth to date.

 

Grant Paulsen probably has nocturnal emissions just at the notion.

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The thing with the Kyle Shanahan, McVay, KOC exodus is that none of the three are really the same.

 

Kyle Shanahan didn't go from the 'Skins OC job straight into a HC gig, he still further earned his stripes as OC on the Falcons, where they advanced to a Superbowl and should have won.  On that team with a superior roster to what he had on the Skins he was able to show off his chops a bit more and really establish himself as someone who might have initially had the door opened for him due to nepotism but really went to work and made a name for himself.  

 

McVay's hiring by the Rams was a little more about trying to catch lightning in the bottle, he was the successor to Shanahan, worked in a QB friendly Jay Gruden offense, and was likely about to impress during the interview given the weapons the Rams had on offense.   He didn't have nearly the resume that Kyle Shanahan had at the time of his HC hiring, and if you ask me, he is much more a candidate to be another Chip Kelly, where he looks great for a couple of seasons until the NFL adjusts.  Not to say that is going to happen, I just think it is way more likely it happens with him over Kyle Shanahan.

 

With KOC, I honestly have no clue why he would be a HC candidate for 2020 or the near future even.  What exactly has he shown on the field? What are his results?  I like KOC, I would have been glad for him to be retained and continue developing Haskins, but I am also not overly concerned that he isn't staying.  

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