UKskins

OC - Scott Turner incoming

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1 hour ago, ntotoro said:

I'm still trying to understand what the "it" is about O'Connell that makes him such a hot commodity other than scuttlebutt. What has he actually done in his coaching career?

 

Breer is close with him and Jay, that's for sure.

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2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


He never wanted KOC. That’s a stated fact by Breer. Therefore if he hired a guy he did not want it involved meddling from the owner. Thanks for playing...

 

And lot of reporters, including Skins beat and local, reported otherwise.  Now Breer's report would be consistent with the view that Turner was the first choice.  But that would not rule out Rivera thinking of KOC as second or third choice, rather than someone he would only be saddled with because Snyder forced him.  The fact that Rivera took the trouble to interview KOC and did not release him until after Turner hiring decision appears to be done (which coincidentally happened after Panthers hired a new HC) is all the more consistent with Rivera thinking of KOC as a plausible fall back option rather than someone he didn't want at all.

 

The central point is stop spouting off speculation and conjecture as facts.  Especially when people repeatedly point out how baseless those assertions are.

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I would have taken any offensive coordinator not named Turner.  This is a huge mistake.   I cannot cite good football reasons but if I am wrong in a year or two I will

gladly admit it.   I cannot believe the Head Coach is going with Turner.  Unbelievable.  He got fired by the Panthers due to offensive woes.   This is like Gruden picking

Manusky instead of Wade Phillips.   Even though Phillips was just let go his defense still outperformed Manusky's pathetic defense.   Very disappointing - he is going

on the buddy system and he will regret it down the road for sure.  If he did not want our current guy he could have found someone more qualified than Turner.  Or if

Kevin is going with his buddy in New England then you interview more candidates.  Are you telling me no other veteran offensive coordinators wanted to work with

our quarterback?  If so, then we are in double trouble.  Turner could fail  Haskins or Haskins could fail Turner or two things could prove to be equally true.  Not a good

day for the Redskins.   All the positive momentum by hiring the Head Coach is now being lost.  Think of a big balloon from New Mexico at the balloon festival and they

are letting all the air out of it to put back in the truck and drive home.

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57 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

3 offenses in 3 years.... no one should be surprised, though.

 

I refuse to ignore the playbooks a QB is forced to digest, when setting expectations.  Basically on par with expectations based on draft position.

 

I wish someone would look at the all time greats, and see how many different playbooks they were forced to digest in their first X # of seasons. I bet there is a pattern.

 

I don't think there's some universal truth about early career number playbooks and success.  Favre switched teams after year 1.  Brees got a new HC and OC after year 1.  Lamar Jackson got a new OC after year 1.  I think there are multiple paths to success.

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4 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

And lot of reporters, including Skins beat and local, reported otherwise.  Now Breer's report would be consistent with the view that Turner was the first choice.  But that would not rule out Rivera thinking of KOC as second or third choice, rather than someone he would only be saddled with because Snyder forced him.  The fact that Rivera took the trouble to interview KOC and did not release him until after Turner hiring decision appears to be done (which coincidentally happened after Panthers hired a new HC) is all the more consistent with Rivera thinking of KOC as a plausible fall back option rather than someone he didn't want at all.

 

The central point is stop spouting off speculation and conjecture as facts.  Especially when people repeatedly point out how baseless those assertions are.


All my conjecture was proven to be fact. Admit it and move on. 
 

KOC is gone and Ron didn’t want him. If he had stayed it would be a result of meddling because Ron never wanted him. Simple as that. 

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2 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

 Favre switched teams after year 1. 

 

Yes but it was year 3 in that Green Bay offense (so his 4th year in the league and 3rd year starting) before he became "Brett Favre".

 

2 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Brees got a new HC and OC after year 1. 

 

 

True. Plus he did not have a start in year 1.

 

2 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Lamar Jackson got a new OC after year 1.  I think there are multiple paths to success.

 

You are right - having a change of OC after your rookie year is not fatal and we should not be freaking out about it. But continuity in a scheme IS important.

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7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

But continuity in a scheme IS important.

 

I definitely agree.  Just pointing out that there have been success stories in the past is all.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

That's why, even though he's not being retained, I can respect McVay for being a greenhorn newborn baby HC, yet still was bold enough to go out and get Wade Phillip's, someone I don't think he ever even worked with before in any capacity (I mean he worked with his boy Wes, but it's not the same as working together with live rounds coming at you)

 

What were his choices from the guys he had worked with...Haslet, Monte Kiffin, Todd Wash, Gus Bradley, Raheem Morris, Bob Slowik, Perry Fewell, Joe Barry, and Manusky?

 

Not sure how bold it actually was...definitely smart thought! 😁

 

 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


All my conjecture was proven to be fact. Admit it and move on. 

 

19789999.jpg

 

Quote

KOC is gone and Ron didn’t want him. If he had stayed it would be a result of meddling because Ron never wanted him. Simple as that.

 

So I guess good guy RR gave KOC the old run around, going through the lengths of an interview, stringing him along for days after, all when he had zero interest in the guy.  Ok.

Edited by bearrock
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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


I have absolutely changed my view on Haskins. I’m open to new evidence unlike most people here. I loved his last 2 games and stated so here. I am not saying he won’t be a bust because statistically he’s still likely to end up that way but I have said he deserves to start the year.

 

OK.  I think plenty people here are open to new evidence as it comes.    You were the most hardcore person here by a mile saying this dude is a bust for quite sometime.  I am not saying I think Haskins is a bonafide franchise QB, I had/have some concerns too but I think there has been plenty to give some confidence that he could be.  Will see.

 

As for the good riddance O'Connell drill and how he's overhyped, etc.   Will see.  You got me one way or another.  I've consistently said I want whomever Rivera wants so I won't complain about anyone leaving.  I do agree though with @BatteredFanSyndrome in that McVay was criticized here for being overhyped and over his head by some.   Plenty were thrilled to get rid of Kyle Shanahan.  Heck I recall like yesterday when Brian Mitchell would continually say how Kyle doesn't know what he's doing and he's lucky that he has a dad that gave him that job.    Neither guy felt like a loss at the time.  Will see in the end about O'Connell.  I am not betting either way.  But just saying people thinking good riddance isn't a novel ride for a young play caller leaving here. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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3 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

 

 

So I guess good guy RR gave KOC the old run around, going through the lengths of an interview, stringing him along for days after, all when he had zero interest in the guy.  Ok.


As a courtesy he interviewed him probably a courtesy to Dan if I had to guess. Breer stated Turner was his target from the start.
 

Ron could have kept KOC to empty the trash in the coach’s room if he wanted.  KOC was under contract. Ron was introduced on Thursday. It’s now Tuesday. How is that giving KOC the run around? He treated him more than fairly. This thing moved at lightning speed. Usually new staffs are filled in at the Senior Bowl.

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11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Plenty were thrilled to get rid of Kyle Shanahan.  Heck I recall like yesterday when Brian Mitchell would continually say how Kyle doesn't know what he's doing and he's lucky that he has a dad that gave him that job.    

 

 

I've always liked Kyle personally. He's talented. Brian talks too much.

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1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

3 offenses in 3 years.... no one should be surprised, though.

 

I refuse to ignore the playbooks a QB is forced to digest, when setting expectations.  Basically on par with expectations based on draft position.

Personally, I'm glad they hired who they wanted, and didn't settle for KOC just bc he was here last year.  Hire the person you think is best for the job, that is the best way to get continuity and success.  

 

As far as Turner, I am surprised RR went with a young guy without a lot of experience, after his "don't draw me a map if you haven't been there" comment.  I wonder if Norv tried to talk Scott out of it haha.

 

I think Haskins can be successful in an offense that tries to open things up.  Especially if we add some more speed to our offense.  Terry and Sims is a good start.

 

I don't love the hire, I don't hate the hire, I'm just excited to see how it all comes together.

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Posted (edited)

I'll be honest, I still don't what to make of KOC and don't know if he's good or bad. Given uncertainty, I can't fault Rivera for going after his own guy. Sounds like he gave Kevin a chance to wow him and the kid didn't or he gave him a chance to wow him and realized that KOC wanted to go elsewhere.

Edited by Burgold
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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Monk brought up Chudzinski's ties to Rivera.

 

One of two things, either Chudz was not Rivera's #1 choice, just like Connell was certainly never Ron's #1, or for Chudz washington and/or Ron were not his #1. 

There was certainly plenty of time for Ron to have reached out between Dec. 3rd to now to get Chudz lined up. he was free. 

 

So, easiest explanation is that neither were each other's #1. 

 

I tend to think that both Norv Turner and Chudzinski probably verbally declined an offer, just my thoughts. I certainly think Ron would have reached out to both. That also may very well have included Shurmur as well, declining. It was said that Shurmur was a discussion point for Ron, but it never went beyond that.

 

As noted, Shurmur has other prospects, perhaps and notably with Reid.

For Norv, it's easy to see why not wanting to work for Dan ever again makes sense, and leads to declining. 

 

As for Ron per Norv, being that Norv was his choice for OC for 2018 & 2019 all the way up to his firing, there's no indication that he would have changed his mind between Dec. 3rd to now. With my supposition that Norv would have likely said "when hell freezes over," to the prospects of working under Dan again, that leads us to Norv's son, the youngin Scott Turner. 

 

He still resonates Ron's 2019 staff, still bedrock Norv's offense, as Norv's kid there's a connection back to him anytime you need it, and we roll.

 

With Shula, as it's a part of historical record, he was fired from Carolina while Ron stayed, so there's valid reason to wonder if the Ron relationship was a non starter.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd imagine the depth chart looked something like this:

1. Norv Turner  |  2. Pat Shurmur  |  3. Rob Chudzinski  |  4. Scott Turner  |  5. Kevin O'Connell  |  6. Mike Shula  |  7. Mr. X

 

Verbally declined

Strained relationship

 

To me, clearly, O'Connell was never Rivera's #1 as some people ran with and apparently Hoffman fueled. But somehow only in washington football club Land does the #5 guy on the depth chart get reported as "Ron's #1."  😀 Haha. 

Edited by Monk4thaHALL
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So instead of going with the guy in charge of the 32nd ranked offense he went with the guy in charge of the 32nd offense over the past 4 games of the season?

 

Championship!!!

 

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10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for the good riddance O'Connell drill and how he's overhyped, etc.   Will see.  You got me one way or another.  I've consistently said I want whomever Rivera wants so I won't complain about anyone leaving.  I do agree though with @BatteredFanSyndrome in that McVay was criticized here for being overhyped and over his head by some.   Plenty were thrilled to get rid of Kyle Shanahan.  Heck I recall like yesterday when Brian Mitchell would continually say how Kyle doesn't know what he's doing and he's lucky that he has a dad that gave him that job.    Neither guy felt like a loss at the time.  Will see in the end about O'Connell.  I am not betting either way.  But just saying people thinking good riddance isn't a novel ride for a young play caller leaving here. 

 

The KOC butt hurting is due to remorse of McVay and Kyle.  When the Shanny's were hired and they made up the offense that fit RG3s limited skillset and we saw success, I was hoping eventually Mike would move into Team Prez role and run the ship with Kyle at HC and we'd have a good 10yr run.  Kyle definitely has skills for running an offense and schemes to create mismatches (see Kittle's rise) first even in Atl where they got to SB.

 

Sean left and all said he basically had coaching in his veins and ran good schemes as well...enough to get to a SB.

 

Lafleur left and has a chance to make a SB in his first year. 

 

Mike hired McVay, and Kyle brought LaFleur with him from Hou under McVay. 

 

Jay fought for Haslett over Wade, Manusky, and other gems.

 

Its funny how our region hypes up KOC and he might be a future great but its funny how in the final games where we looked better as an Offense, the announcers kept praising Callahan for his playcalling.  Sure they could be wrong but don't announcers meet with the team's staffs for the games they are covering and would know this?  Hard to know what is actually true but there was a change for the better.  Chip Kelly hired KOC in SF and Jay hired him here.

 

Wonder what we would have looked like with the Shanny's still here with Mike at the top (even if Bruce was here he would not have Mike's power so couldn't eff everything up) and Kyle at the HC spot with Cousins or others they would draft for QB.   Besides the recent better drafting of late, the Gruden years were just a waste of time for the Skins, but sure brought and are bringing success to ATL, LA, SF, and GB.   truly very sad emoji.  LOL

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1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

Bend the knee and kiss the ring. One day I will be wrong. Today is not that day...

Congratulations?

 

We were reacting to your crackpot conspiracy theories, not about KOC definitely being the guy.

 

Even a blind pig finds an acorn every once in a while.

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7 minutes ago, RabidFan said:

 

The KOC butt hurting is due to remorse of McVay and Kyle.


 

I am sure as KOC gets hardened by more experience he will hurt a lot more butts in the future.

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2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


 

I am sure as KOC gets hardened by more experience he will hurt a lot more butts in the future.

 

thats-what-she-said.jpg?quality=90&w=412

 

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1 hour ago, bearrock said:

 

I don't think there's some universal truth about early career number playbooks and success.  Favre switched teams after year 1.  Brees got a new HC and OC after year 1.  Lamar Jackson got a new OC after year 1.  I think there are multiple paths to success.

 

Good stuff.  Its more than the obvious changes perhaps, such as: did the new coach keep the vast number of plays from the previous playbook. 

 

Another factor I will throw out, did the first year coach not use them to their strengths. i.e. immediately set out to make Lamar a pure pocket passer, to prolong his career.

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This seems to me less of an outside hire of someone who we're gambling on and more of an inside hire of a guy who's earned his chance. 

Turner was with rivera for his entire stint with carolina and had rivera not been fired and norv retired its almost certain that rivera would have promoted turner to offensive coordinator. 

Under that scenario no fan of Carolina would be upset that someone who worked for you for 9 years was promoted and it's the reason the move doesn't bother me.

Just because the location has changed doesn't mean Ron's plans to elevate a worthy candidate had to.

I don't recall anybody being upset when we elevated mcvay to offensive coordinator and I look at this move in a similar light.

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