UKskins

OC - Scott Turner incoming

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, posse87 said:

come on man

Don't try to reason with him.  He has an agenda that he is going to :705:

Edited by Rex Tomb
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, MartinC said:


giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a11f8eb606afa9d8ae7

Why do you even try?

3 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Don't try to reason with him.  He has an agenda that he is going to :705:

Understood. It’s cool. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Folks - don’t quote gifs or pictures in replies. See the pinned thread by TK.

 

We are going to start enforcing this rule more closely.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, posse87 said:

Nope, believe your conspiracy theories but no one is buying the garbage


It’s not a conspiracy theory. It is Dan’s standard operating procedure. If he’s not meddling and Ron decides to hire an OC with 1 year of experience and less than that calling plays, that requires proof that it’s not a result of meddling.
 

Claiming there is meddling is not an extraordinary claim. There is a 20 year history. Claiming Ron Rivera in his first year on a new job will trust his entire offense to an OC with the the resume of KOC without being pressured into it is the extraordinary claim. 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading some of these posts, I have come to the conclusion that RR absolutely HAS to cut Payne, Ionnidis, Allen and Scary Terry. ALL of these players were brought in under the previous BA regime and keeping this talent on the roster is just another way to reflect that Snyder is continuing to meddle and wanting to hold onto the old ways. We do not need that kind of DRAMA!!! Cut everyone, talent be damned. Otherwise the vocal minority will continue to point out the stench that RR is just a puppet.   

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is just as critical that the HC and OC are of one mind as it is the OC and QB.  I fully expect the HC to pick someone he is confident shares his plans and believes he has all the tools to be successful.  If KOC can convince the HC that he is that guy; he will get the job. If not, we'll get a new OC.  Regardless, I do not believe the HC is under any mandate to keep OC.  It is not unreasonable that ownership mentioned there fondness of KOC and it is entirely appropriate for him to get an interview; but I and am very confident that the new HC would never of agreed to a mandate to keep him.  It's a big job with a Defensive minded HC, needs to be someone he is 100% confident with.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, evmiii said:

It is just as critical that the HC and OC are of one mind as it is the OC and QB.  I fully expect the HC to pick someone he is confident shares his plans and believes he has all the tools to be successful.  If KOC can convince the HC that he is that guy; he will get the job. If not, we'll get a new OC.  Regardless, I do not believe the HC is under any mandate to keep OC.  It is not unreasonable that ownership mentioned there fondness of KOC and it is entirely appropriate for him to get an interview; but I and am very confident that the new HC would never of agreed to a mandate to keep him.  It's a big job with a Defensive minded HC, needs to be someone he is 100% confident with.


The only way that is provable is if he isn’t retained. If he is then it is reasonable to suppose that “ownership’s fondness of KOC” was the primary driver of the decision. The last 20 years make that a reasonable assumption. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 
With a young QB a balanced offense is important - but that’s not the same as run first. The easiest reads and throws for a young QB are in first down. 
 

Get into 2nd and medium/short and then hand it off.

The easiest reads are when the opposing defense is run weary. The rush comes with one eye in the backfield, linebackers take an extra read step or two and if they’re in zone they hit their landmarks just a fraction slower. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

 

Friends helping friends perhaps, but this isn't the scuttlebutt among some of the coaches in the post-Black Monday waiting room. It wouldn't be bad for him to be able to return to where he played as a backup, but his services just aren't as in demand as many on this board may want to believe. The Patriots weren't in play as a destination when he actively lobbied for a 'special projects' job on Chip's staff in SF. And he would've been completely out of football had Morocco Brown not phoned Snyder to recommend him for the offensive staff, which then led to him later replacing Cavanaugh as OC (neither of which Gruden wanted). Not defending Gruden here; he clearly never knew how to put together a staff anyway.

 

I do like O'Connell, and I hope he continues to develop as an OC.

 

Makes you like him even more that he has had to scratch and claw his way to prove himself in this league unlike a lot of these guys who were someone's brother or son

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


It’s not a conspiracy theory. It is Dan’s standard operating procedure. If he’s not meddling and Ron decides to hire an OC with 1 year of experience and less than that calling plays, that requires proof that it’s not a result of meddling.
 

Claiming there is meddling is not an extraordinary claim. There is a 20 year history. Claiming Ron Rivera in his first year on a new job will trust his entire offense to an OC with the the resume of KOC without being pressured into it is the extraordinary claim. 

What’s done is done. You can’t argue Haskins isnt gifted and unlike anything that has happened in the past there was no impulse move that was completely unfounded in reality to obtain him. Instead of moving heaven and earth to obtain a player, they’re doing what it takes to provide a platform for him to succeed 

Edited by Berggy9598
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

What’s done is done. You can’t argue Haskins is gifted and MUCH more importantly we sat at 15 and he was right there. Not trading up changes the narrative imo. 


There wasn’t a specific meddling I was referencing. The draft meddling is just a drop in the bucket. Sending your defensive coordinator tubs of melting vanilla ice cream to his office as a message, hiring a OC from another team before hiring a head coach and numerous other coach meddling/interference incidents are better examples of why it’s not unreasonable to assume KOC was forced on Ron. 
 

If he dumps him, water under the bridge and we know we indeed have a fresh start. 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

The easiest reads are when the opposing defense is run weary. The rush comes with one eye in the backfield, linebackers take an extra read step or two and if they’re in zone they hit their landmarks just a fraction slower. 


The data does not agree with you.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/you-called-a-run-on-first-down-youre-already-screwed/

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally wouldn't mind a more seasoned hire for OC. If O'Connell were a company man perhaps he'd be willing to stick around.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Basic defensive principals do, and speaking of the Seahawks, Russell Wilson's success his first couple of seasons comes down to what I just said.  Also you can have a run first offense and stay balanced on first down. In fact, the more you establish the run as a threat, the more success you can have throwing on first down. Shotgun, play action, slant on first down is what QBs still adjusting thrive upon. 

Edited by Berggy9598

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I remember a couple times in those last few games where I thought to my self "whoa what was that play? I haven't seen us run that before". I can't recall exactly, but there were a few things that looked totally out of our normal box and I liked it.

 

Add: The QB read option for example.

Edited by Stadium-Armory
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rivera is not going to accept anyone on his staff he doesn't want.  He didn't come here to let Snyder press him into keeping KOC right out the gate.   Rivera didn't need to come here. He chose to come here,  and he set the terms without a doubt.   A coach of his caliber would accept nothing less. 

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

 

Basic defensive principals do, and speaking of the Seahawks, Russell Wilson's success his first couple of seasons comes down to what I just said.  Also you can have a run first offense and stay balanced on first down. In fact, the more you establish the run as a threat, the more success you can have throwing on first down. Shotgun, play action, slant on first down is what QBs still adjusting thrive upon. 


 

That is the received wisdom of ‘football people’. But data is data and there is no argument with numbers (assuming the math is correct - which it is). There is a bunch of other data that confirms this - completion percentages, yards per attempt. There is even data that shows the effectiveness of play action has no correlation with the frequency of running plays or even if you have been running the ball leading up to the use of play action.

 

All heresy I know. But it is what it is.

 

First down is the optimum passing down. Which is not to say you should pass every first down - but you should be weighted strongly towards the pass.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Jesus Christ, just keep O’Connell, will ya.  Already lost McVay & LaFleur.  Not to mention Lil’ Shanny.  Last thing we need is to cut O’Connell loose and down the line he’s winning big as a HC/OC elsewhere.  

113C694A-D54E-4433-B7B6-76CBDD9E1FB4.gif

Edited by -JB-
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Jesus Christ, just keep O’Connell, will ya.  Already lost McVay & LaFleur.  Not to mention Lil’ Shanny.  Last thing we need is to cut O’Connell loose and down the line he’s winning big as a HC/OC elsewhere.  

I really believe that KOC has a great chance of being retained.  When the players and coaches on the O side of the ball talk to RR and he interviews KOC I think he'll agree he needs to stay our OC.  Just a guess.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I really believe that KOC has a great chance of being retained.  When the players and coaches on the O side of the ball talk to RR and he interviews KOC I think he'll agree he needs to stay our OC.  Just a guess.


He does appear to be the type to consult with many others to get a feel for KOCs impact and qualifications. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MartinC said:

Folks - don’t quote gifs or pictures in replies. See the pinned thread by TK.

 

We are going to start enforcing this rule more closely.

Does this forum have the ability to give users notification pop ups on certain mod/admin notes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

Personally wouldn't mind a more seasoned hire for OC. If O'Connell were a company man perhaps he'd be willing to stick around.

 

This is where I'm at too. Although the O'Connell/Haskins relationship does seem like something we should try and retain in some capacity for 2020.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

This is where I'm at too. Although the O'Connell/Haskins relationship does seem like something we should try and retain in some capacity for 2020.

 

If KOC doesn't get the OC job, I don't see him staying around in some diminished role. He's apparently well respected as an offensive mind around the league. He'll easily get an offer for OC somewhere else. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, -JB- said:

Jesus Christ, just keep O’Connell, will ya.  Already lost McVay & LaFleur.  Not to mention Lil’ Shanny.  Last thing we need is to cut O’Connell loose and down the line he’s winning big as a HC/OC elsewhere.  

We signed Rivera for 5 years.

Even if we retain O'Connell, there's little probability he'll be HC here.

If he flames out, he'll be out in 2 years, that's obvious.

If he succeeds, he'll be on someone else radar in 2 years and will probably be hired as a HC somewhere else in 2/3 years because we won't be able to prevent him from signing elsewhere, like McVay.

Then you'll reach the situation you had with McVay: firing the HC to replace him with the OC. But you can only do that if Rivera is not successful at HC or he wants to retire for whatever reason. But at 57, I believe he wants to coach for another 10 seasons.

 

If the gameplan was to get O'Connell as the futur HC in a few years, then hiring Rivera was a really bad choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.