OC - Scott Turner incoming

[ntotoro]

Just now, SemperFi Skins said:

 

He once shared the same role of toilet paper as Sean McVay...

 

At least McVay could spare a square.

[Skinsinparadise]

I read the MMQ article, unless I missed it Breer didn't elaborate on the Turner being the top target all along.  I don't take it that seriously because when does a team land someone and not say or leak it was their top target.  But I don't care one way or another.  I preferred O'Connell to stay mainly because Haskins did.  But from the beginning I was cool with Rivera bringing or firing anyone he chooses even my favorite guy in this organization, Kyle Smith.

 

I like Rivera.  If the theory is all he thinks and wants is the be all and end all then for any Haskins hater they might want to rethink their position.   Not sure what to make of him praising the veterans here, too. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/06/nfl-playoffs-vikings-texans-patriots-seahawks-coaching-carousel-wild-card-mmqb

5. As for the quarterback—Rivera has looked at Dwayne Haskins. He, in fact, looked at four games of tape for the whole team, and he did hone in a little on the quarterbacks. “Once it became evident that Dwayne was going to be their guy going forward, I watched how he played,” Rivera said. “You watch those earlier games when he had to come in and play, those game plans weren’t designed for him. But as they started to design the game plans for him and they started getting more and more comfortable with him and he got more and more comfortable with calls, you saw the success. He managed games well, he made plays when he had to. I like to point to the last two drives he had in the Detroit game [in Week 12] where he had to get points: He moved the ball, he was very confident, made some really good throws. And then you just saw him continue to grow and you saw his confidence step up. So that was exciting, but I also know that there are three pretty good NFL quarterbacks on this roster with experience. I mean, you look at Colt McCoy and you look at Case Keenum, and Alex Smith is working to come back. So we’ve got an interesting set of circumstances going forward, and we’ll see how all that unfolds for us.”

Edited January 7, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[SemperFi Skins]

Just now, ntotoro said:

 

At least McVay could spare a square.

 

 a square was certainly spared.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

I'm still trying to understand what the "it" is about O'Connell that makes him such a hot commodity other than scuttlebutt. What has he actually done in his coaching career?

All these similar comments were made about McVay both before and after he left here.  You've got me if he's in that same mold or not, but after Sean left and became successful in LA, there was a lot of revisionist history by members of the forum acting like they were all in on him before he left.  When there were actually very few who felt that way.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Newton has found that in Turner because of what and how the son of Panthers OC Norv Turner is teaching him. Yes, that notebook’s stocked with answers—it’s nothing, if not functional. But just as much, it’s a symbol of the relationship between an assistant coach and quarterback separated by less than seven years in age. Their relationship is founded in the very different way that Newton learns.

The 30-year-old is a visual learner, something the team has always known. The walls of the Panthers quarterbacks room at Bank of America stadium double as whiteboards and have forever been marked up with Newton’s scribblings. Seeing that 18 months ago, Turner wanted to find permanence to the notes that his quarterback was making—hence the notebook. And Newton admitting than he can drift in and out when studying added merit to the idea of a notebook.

“I can’t learn when everybody learns, my attention isn’t as pristine as other people’s, I know that, I’ve accepted that,” Newton says. “Me, being the way I am, when I’m ready to learn something, it might be at 8 p.m. at night. So if don’t want to bother Scott, nor do I want to ask other people questions, I wanna know something as simple as ‘What is a Yo motion?’, something as simple as, ‘What’s Bingo?’, something as complex as ‘What is Fleet?’ or ‘Who moves on Swap Shift?’, those things I already have in my book.”

The idea behind starting this new learning strategy was to start from zero—“I didn’t want to be one of those guys [who thinks] Oh yeah, I know everything”—and that’s helped too. It’s forced Newton to create a ground floor of knowledge, which is all chronicled in the notebook, and work from there. This allows him to mentally sort what’s more important than the next thing, even though the basics of the offense haven’t changed much since Newton was a rookie and ex-Norv assistant Rob Chudzinski was his OC.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[ntotoro]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

All these similar comments were made about McVay both before and after he left here.  You've got me if he's in that same mold or not, but after Sean left and became successful in LA, there was a lot of revisionist history by members of the forum acting like they were all in on him before he left.  When there were actually very few who felt that way.

 

I remember a lot of people calling him "Wrong Play McVay" and etcetera, but it turned out Gruden was still doing the playcalling. Even McVay had more "experience" than O'Connell, though. I just don't see the parallels. He certainly isn't as animated or outgoing as McVay.

[RandyHolt]

3 offenses in 3 years.... no one should be surprised, though.

 

I refuse to ignore the playbooks a QB is forced to digest, when setting expectations.  Basically on par with expectations based on draft position.

 

I wish someone would look at the all time greats, and see how many different playbooks they were forced to digest in their first X # of seasons. I bet there is a pattern.

Edited January 7, 2020 by RandyHolt

[SoCalSkins]

On 1/5/2020 at 8:03 AM, Rex Tomb said:

 

LOL you are so stuck in your own argument that you can't see any others.  There is no point in debating this with you any longer.  

 

On 1/5/2020 at 9:00 AM, ConnSKINS26 said:

At some point this becomes spam and by that definition trolling, right? Just ignore this SoCal guy, folks. 

 

On 1/5/2020 at 9:07 AM, HTTRDynasty said:

People must be bored... letting this troll trigger them.

 

On 1/5/2020 at 2:45 PM, burgngold fan said:

I heard this song and dance before!  Seriously! At least change it up some. Lol

 

On 1/6/2020 at 4:21 AM, HigSkin said:

Craig Hoffman on 106.7 Junkies this morning said he's pretty sure KOC is #1 OC, Pat Shurmur who that have interviewed is #2 and Scott Turner #3.  

 

On 1/6/2020 at 8:44 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I got to listen to that.  Hoffman has suggested that relatively speaking as a reporter, he's fairly tight with O'Connell.  When a tweet by some reporter came out on 1/1 that O'Connell was going to be kept, forgot where the tweet came from, Hoffman said hold your horses on that based on his conversations.

 

Hoffman has been saying its a two way interview and he's not sure that O'Connell wants to stay.  Who knows if that's true.    

 

Granted its all speculation but I do trust some reporters more than others as to specific ties.  For example, I trusted Paulsen more on Kirk related stuff.  On the same token, I trust Hoffman more on O'Connell relating info. 

 

 

On 1/6/2020 at 11:04 AM, Koolblue13 said:

So the ball is completely in KoCs court, huh? That's just shockingly different than a certain poster's narrative. 

 

 

 

Bend the knee and kiss the ring. One day I will be wrong. Today is not that day...

[crabbypatty]

3 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I remember a lot of people calling him "Wrong Play McVay" and etcetera, but it turned out Gruden was still doing the playcalling. Even McVay had more "experience" than O'Connell, though. I just don't see the parallels. He certainly isn't as animated or outgoing as McVay.

 

A lot of us didn't think McVay was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he was obviously better than Jay, and we were salty he left and Jay stayed.

Their SB trip just reinforced what many knew already.

[RemoveSnyder]

59 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

May be late to the party, but who is this "CMC" everyone keeps referring to?

 

Country music christians. @TryTheBeal! is big into that along with his buddy Kurt. 😀

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Hooper said:

Turner and Zampese have shown a more modern system with easier reads than KOC and people are freaking out why?

 

I would not freak out about it. But I'm not sure you could actually substantiate the statement above if pressed (and asked to show your work!)

 

Fact is most 'systems' now are a hodge-podge of WCO/Air Coryell/Spread pass concepts married to inside and outside zone and gap running concepts. The major difference is terminology, the exact same play or concept will sound very different in the huddle using Air Coryell versus WCO verbiage. So Haskins (and the rest of the O) will have a new language to learn I would assume.

 

The other HUGE difference is gameplanning, identifying matchups and then play calling to exploit those matchups.

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

This was late last week. They were saying they were happy about the Rivera hiring, but almost romanticizing Gruden saying stuff like "He wasn't afraid to bring in coaches who could potentially take his job" and all I could think was "Wha hunh... ?"

 

Yeah I recall that, that was Grant if I recall saying it. He was referring to Callahan.  But agree that wasn't the case on the defensive side of the ball.  I've heard Danny blast him for the same thing though, specifically for D coordinators. 

[Est.1974]

47 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Ron never wanted KOC. Deal with it. 

 

I would agree with that. I'd say the feeling was mutual though and it's been an exercise of jumping through politically correct hoops to get to the desired end result.

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

Bend the knee and kiss the ring. One day I will be wrong. Today is not that day...

 

I flat out said I don't know.  All we could is speculate based on what reporters are saying.  Not sure how you do.  I like Breer as much as anyone here but his opinion doesn't automatically override every other reporter let alone teams go out of their way typically to make the point that their hire was the first choice all along.  If you noticed there were a zillion reports about how Rhule was the Giants top target, now that he was hired elsewhere shockingly some stories are leaking that he really wasn't their top choice but the dude they hired is the one they wanted as least as much as Rhule if not more.  It's how the game rolls. 

 

But to play along and play with your logic let's say Rivera despises the bum Kevin O'Connell and what Rivera thinks must be true.   In that same MMQ article, he praises Haskins a lot.  So I presume you are doing now a 180 on Haskins?  O'Connell = bad.  Haskins = good.  That would bring the logic home consistently if so. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[goskins10]

 

44 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

I preferred keeping KOC but I think Ill be just fine, Im happy with whatever Rivera wants to do. Unlike you.

 

You complained about KOCs 1 year of experience and how the offense performed. So now you are okay with Scott Turner who has less experience and a worse performing offense?

 

You are correct. Scott Turner has an even less impressive resume than KOC. He has exactly 4 gms as OC. During that time his teams were 32nd in pts scored (15/gm) - yes below Wash, 10th in passing so OK (244) - but they were behind a lot. Lot's of garbage yds since they were also 27th in rushing (93). 

 

So he only has 4 gms as OC and those games his teams were garbage. And the team was 0-4 during that time. Very little experience - check, poor performance in that short time - check. losing record while OC - check. 

 

I want who Ron wants. And it's clear he wants a guy he has worked with, which is fine - but having success or experience is not a priority apparently, unlike some of the statements being made in here. 

 

I will say I am a little disappointed. I really expected a veteran OC if he moved on from KOC. Someone with a good history at OC like Del Rio does as DC. Or, hire KOC - not because I think he is best for the job - but because the entertainment value would be through the roof.

 

But in Ron we trust, at least for now.  HTTR!!

 

 

 

[RabidFan]

38 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I remember a lot of people calling him "Wrong Play McVay" and etcetera, but it turned out Gruden was still doing the playcalling. Even McVay had more "experience" than O'Connell, though. I just don't see the parallels. He certainly isn't as animated or outgoing as McVay.

 

Never ever read or heard that nickname but if so I can only assume that KDawg came up with it and tried to infect the message board with it.  LOL 😏

[megared]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

I will say I am a little disappointed. I really expected a veteran OC if he moved on from KOC.

 

With experience between the two being a wash, if Rivera's going to roll the dice with a young coordinator, why shouldn't it be his guy?  Scott has a crap load of experience operating under his structure and game plans.  

[SoCalSkins]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I flat out said I don't know.  All we could is speculate based on what reporters are saying.  Not sure how you do.  I like Breer as much as anyone here but his opinion doesn't automatically override every other reporter let alone teams go out of their way typically to make the point that their hire was the first choice all along.  If you noticed there were a zillion reports about how Rhule was the Giants top target, now that he was hired elsewhere shockingly some stories are leaking that he really wasn't their top choice but the dude they hired is the one they wanted as least as much as Rhule if not more.  It's how the game rolls. 

 

But to play along and play with your logic let's say Rivera despises the bum Kevin O'Connell and what Rivera thinks must be true.   In that same MMQ article, he praises Haskins a lot.  So I presume you are doing now a 180 on Haskins?  O'Connell = bad.  Haskins = good.  That would bring the logic home consistently if so. 

I have absolutely changed my view on Haskins. I’m open to new evidence unlike most people here. I loved his last 2 games and stated so here. I am not saying he won’t be a bust because statistically he’s still likely to end up that way but I have said he deserves to start the year.
 

Some people have bravado because they are frauds but to me he has  a genuine arrogance about his own ability which is a great trait for a QB. He’s grown on me. If he can handle the hard coaching from Ron it might work out, we will see. But Ron is quick to praise Keenum and Alex Smith as well. He’s not handing anyone anything including the coddling of the previous OC. Let’s see if Haskins buys in. His draft status means nothing to Ron.

 

 

[goskins10]

Just now, megared said:

 

With experience between the two being a wash, if Rivera's going to roll the dice with a young coordinator, why shouldn't it be his guy?  Scott has a crap load of experience operating under his structure and game plans.  

 

i simply said I was a little disappointed. I then also said I want who he wants. No need to be defensive of his pick. I simply was hoping for someone with experience. It did not happen, so fair enough. He is the man in charge. I hope the best for him because it's the best for us. In Ron we trust. 

 

 

[bearrock]

41 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bend the knee and kiss the ring. One day I will be wrong. Today is not that day...

 

Your assertion that only way Rivera sticks with KOC was if forced to by Snyder is without evidence.  That he went with Turner in the end (or did KOC leave? Still getting a lot of conflicting reports) doesn't change the baselessness of the assertion.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Rivera power tweet

 

 

I mean...yeah, what'd anyone expect?  Dude can definitely flesh out his staff as he sees fit.  

[skeenzfan]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

Disappointing to me too. We will see what happens, but I hate seeing guys get fired and then bring the entire staff they lost with, with them at the new gig. But im willing to watch and see how it goes. 

 

He hired a DC he has not worked with and retained the ST coach who he hasn't worked with. How is that bringing the entire staff?   

 

Most coaches hire a lot of other coaches they have worked with in the past.  McCarthy is hiring Nolan as DC, Bill O'Brien has Romeo Crennel, Mike Vrabel has Dan Pees, Andy Reid just hired Steve Spagnuolo and the list goes on.  

[ExoDus84]

56 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

He once shared the same role of toilet paper as Sean McVay...

 

If it was 1-ply, I can understand. Those rolls are about 8 feet wide here at the office, and last 6-12 months. However, if they were sharing two ply, that's a little sketch. it runs out much faster, and they'd have to essentially share the same stall at the same time.

[HTTRDynasty]

2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I have absolutely changed my view on Haskins. I’m open to new evidence unlike most people here. I loved his last 2 games and stated so here. I am not saying he won’t be a bust because statistically he’s still likely to end up that way but I have said he deserves to start the year.
 

Some people have bravado because they are frauds but to me he has  a genuine arrogance about his own ability which is a great trait for a QB. He’s grown on me. If he can handle the hard coaching from Ron it might work out, we will see. But Ron is quick to praise Keenum and Alex Smith as well. He’s not handing anyone anything including the coddling of the previous OC. Let’s see if Haskins buys in. His draft status means nothing to Ron.

 

Whoa!  I must have missed your earlier posts on your change of attitude regarding Haskins.  It's refreshing to see someone so deep down the rabbit hole calling him a guaranteed bust be able to admit their mistake and own it.  I applaud you for it.

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, bearrock said:

 

Your assertion that only way Rivera sticks with KOC was if forced to by Snyder is without evidence.  That he went with Turner in the end (or did KOC leave? Still getting a lot of conflicting reports) doesn't change the baselessness of the assertion.  

He never wanted KOC. That’s a stated fact by Breer. Therefore if he hired a guy he did not want it involved meddling from the owner. Thanks for playing...