Best Coaching hire in the Snyder era?

[hail2skins]

8 hours ago, tele1 said:

Here is the challenge

 

Who actually thought (at the time) Gibbs 2.0 was a failure

 

C'mon confess !!!! I dare you

 

I bet nobody admits that Gibbs 2.0 was a failure

 

Back in the day - so many skins fans were dissapointed & that was the vibe

 

True story

The problem with people evaluating Gibbs 2.0 is that, by human nature, they emotionally bring Gibbs 1.0 into it. Which is sort of a double-edged sword. 

 

On the one hand, Joe was not going to be able to replicate the wild success he had in his first stint here. Expectations were probably set too high amid all the excitement.

 

On the other hand, I find it hard to crow about two wild card years and two quite mediocre years as a wild success in and of itself. And you can say "well, better than anyone else has done." Yes, when you're comparing it to absolute garbage.

 

Will you consider Ron Rivera's first four years to be successful if they more or less achieve the same as Gibbs 2?

 

To answer the question, I would grade Gibbs 2 as incomplete. I was as excited as anyone with the hire, but when I stepped back, I thought "Joe is 64. How many years is he going to be able to handle the grind, and will it be enough to make a meaningful organizational difference?"

 

I wish Dan wouldve been able to lure him back in 2001. Hindsight being what it is, in 2004, after Spurrier quit, I think we needed more of a longer view.

 

[fearlessNelms]

Gibbs was the best, in my opinion. To bring that legend back shocked everyone and I believe had it not been for the Taylor tragedy and some family illnesses that made him retire sooner than he probably wanted to, he would've took us to the promised land again.

 

Schottenheimer was a very good hire as well, but he obviously never got the chance to build off the winning culture he was building here. He had us on our way to being a very good football team before being fired after one season.

 

Shanahan could've been a great hire had Snyder stayed out of his way and let him do it his way. I say great because I always believed that Mike was going to be the HC for 4 or 5 years and Kyle was being groomed to take over at some point. Had it ever played out that way, we likely would've been looking back at the Shanahan hire as a god send that eventually led us to having arguably the best young HC in the game in Kyle. 

[hail2skins]

Shanny was arguably the most disappointing of the Snyder hirings. Yes, we did have the RG3 magic, and the injury and the effect on the following year was unfortunate. And Mike did inherit a garbage team, but those first two seasons were atrocious. If Ron puts up 6-10 and 5-11 the next two, you'll be calling for his head.

[bakedtater1]

9 hours ago, tele1 said:

It's Joe Gibbs 2.0 and by a wide margin

 

Sadly Sean Taylors shocking murder & Joe's ailing grandchild saw him leave with unfinished business

 

Incredibly Snyders biggest blunder was not choosing Gregg Williams as the successor - he WOULD have taken us to the next level

 

Hey CLEVELAND - still glad you gave Gregg the flick and handed the keys to the franchise to Freddie Kitchens Hahahahah

 

Hey REDSKINS - still glad you gave Gregg the flick and handed the keys to the franchise to Jim Zorn Hahahahah

 

My hatred for Snyder the weasel is real  - I genuinely hate the G*d Damn maggott

 

He couldn't pick a booger out of his nose - so he has no chance of picking the right coaches & GM

 

Rivera is mediocre at best

 

It's incredible that Joe Gibbs 2.0 was maligned at the time as a disappointment / failure

 

I laughed and argued  til I was blue in the face against the majority of (clueless) skins fans at the time

 

I kept saying - the best coach since Gibbs was Gibbs 2.0 - 2 playoff appearances in 3 years

 

Sadly - this is still true today

 

Joe Gibbs - HOF Nascar legend Top 100 Team

 

Here is the challenge

 

Who actually thought (at the time) Gibbs 2.0 was a failure

 

C'mon confess !!!! I dare you

 

I bet nobody admits that Gibbs 2.0 was a failure

 

Back in the day - so many skins fans were dissapointed & that was the vibe

 

True story

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with all this but the rivera mediocre at best..you need to confess hes better than mediocre....they dont hand out coach of the year awards to mediocre coaches..

 

 

Snyder should have listened to Gibbs and gave the head coaching job to g williams... gibbs 2.0 was not a failure...far from it....I tend to lean towards Marty being snyder's best hire scince owning the team...but than he(snyder)****ed it all up..like he did when gibbs retired again and not listing to gibbs.

[dicksogj]

33 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

I agree with all this but the rivera mediocre at best..you need to confess hes better than mediocre....they dont hand out coach of the year awards to mediocre coaches..

 

 

Snyder should have listened to Gibbs and gave the head coaching job to g williams... gibbs 2.0 was not a failure...far from it....I tend to lean towards Marty being snyder's best hire scince owning the team...but than he(snyder)****ed it all up..like he did when gibbs retired again and not listing to gibbs.

 

People must have short term memories when it comes to head coaches.  Just because Rivera is coming off a bad season doesn't mean that he is a bad coach. 

 

Belichick was 5-11 for the Browns in his last season there several years before he took the Pats job & was 5-11 in his initial season for the Pats.  Reid was 4-12 in his last season for the Eagles a year prior to taking the Chiefs job & has not had a losing season since.

 

A lot of factors contributed to the Panthers poor season (Newton's injury, lack of talent, etc) - it goes a lot further than simply Rivera.  All signs point to an improved D with the new coaches especially if they draft Young.  The key will be on the other side of the ball & the progress Haskins makes next season.  Keeping O'Connell should be a plus since you get to retain some of the new coaching blood along with the established coaches.  We will see.  Not sure why some folks here feel so confident in their ability to gage coaches.  I can understand the negativity since we have been burned before, but let's let this play out a bit.

[bakedtater1]

1 minute ago, dicksogj said:

 

People must have short term memories when it comes to head coaches.  Just because Rivera is coming off a bad season doesn't mean that he is a bad coach. 

 

Belichick was 5-11 for the Browns in his last season there several years before he took the Pats job & was 5-11 in his initial season for the Pats.  Reid was 4-12 in his last season for the Eagles a year prior to taking the Chiefs job & has not had a losing season since.

 

A lot of factors contributed to the Panthers poor season (Newton's injury, lack of talent, etc) - it goes a lot further than simply Rivera.  All signs point to an improved D with the new coaches especially if they draft Young.  The key will be on the other side of the ball & the progress Haskins makes next season.  Keeping O'Connell should be a plus since you get to retain some of the new coaching blood along with the established coaches.  We will see.  Not sure why some folks here feel so confident in their ability to gage coaches.  I can understand the negativity since we have been burned before, but let's let this play out a bit.

I dont get what your getting at here..are you saying I was saying rivera is not a good hire?

[dicksogj]

Just now, bakedtater1 said:

I dont get what your getting at here..are you saying I was saying rivera is not a good hire?

 

Lol - no - I am not directing this towards you.  I am in agreement with you.  This is directed towards others here & elsewhere who are basically badmouthing the Rivera hire primarily based on the past season.  

[bakedtater1]

36 minutes ago, dicksogj said:

 

Lol - no - I am not directing this towards you.  I am in agreement with you.  This is directed towards others here & elsewhere who are basically badmouthing the Rivera hire primarily based on the past season.  

Ahhh ok..thanks for clearing that up for me..great point!

[Smurf3]

I believe that, now that Snyder has had 2 decades to superimpose his image on this franchise, simply wearing the uniform now has a losing mindset associated with it. Rivera was good when Cam Newton was great. Cam Newton is a big RGIII, able to take the punishment of being a running QB much longer than RGIII was. Eventually Newton wore down and so did Rivera's record. That performance by Carolina against the 'Skins this year was pathetic and it amazes me that the solution to the 'Skins coaching dilemma is the coach that got fired almost immediately after that game. Maybe Snyder associates Rivera with the Redskins winning, who knows? I think Rivera is known as a players' coach and the players really like him. That is exactly what the Redskins don't need. I think they should have kept Callahan.

[dicksogj]

59 minutes ago, Smurf3 said:

I believe that, now that Snyder has had 2 decades to superimpose his image on this franchise, simply wearing the uniform now has a losing mindset associated with it. Rivera was good when Cam Newton was great. Cam Newton is a big RGIII, able to take the punishment of being a running QB much longer than RGIII was. Eventually Newton wore down and so did Rivera's record. That performance by Carolina against the 'Skins this year was pathetic and it amazes me that the solution to the 'Skins coaching dilemma is the coach that got fired almost immediately after that game. Maybe Snyder associates Rivera with the Redskins winning, who knows? I think Rivera is known as a players' coach and the players really like him. That is exactly what the Redskins don't need. I think they should have kept Callahan.

 

So basically Callahan came in & won 3 games against bad teams while the defense continued to play poorly for the most part.  What about that exactly suggests that he should have been retained as a head coach?  I don't care if you are a players coach or a coach who stresses discipline.  This is the pros - the main thing a coach needs to do is put players in the best position to succeed.

 

With Rivera & Del Rio this should be very possible for the defense.  The offense will continue to mainly be overseen by O'Connell.  Who the hell knows who Callahan would have brought on as D coordinator - highly unlikely it would have been Del Rio.  Probably yet another Barry/Manusky clone. That alone is reason why this appears to be a good hire.  Time will tell.

 

[Thinking Skins]

6 hours ago, tele1 said:

It amazes me that Williams has not had a look in at ANY head coaching position since then -  until the Cleveland position opened up = before foolishly hiring Kitchens...........I laughed at the time - The Browns are doing a Redskins - Kitchens & Zorn instead of Williams - gimme a break!!

 

 

I don't get why Williams is so lauded as this great coach in line. I think Callahan is a better coaching prospect that Williams. Almost the same age (GW - 61 vs BC - 63) and Bill had more success (as a coach) in the league. Both have controversy associated with their name (Cal with the SB stuff, Williams with the targeting players). Both coached in that early 2000s and were overlooked for so long until the last two years as interim guys. GW did better as an interim coach but I don't think that GW would have been this steal of a coach. I think he probably would have flamed out like many DCs do, especially DCs who can't find a QB (and I'm just going to assume that Jason Campbell wouldn't have flourished). 

 

if we had hired GW, we may never have signed Bruce Allen, so where that leaves us with Vinny, I don't know. 

[Commander Adama]

For me it was Gibbs. It is when he sat down Snyder and told him it had to change and he needs to leave operations to the football people and that is when we started to see a change in Snyder.

[Koolblue13]

Marty was the best and not just because he came in a fired Vinny. It's because he brought discipline, accountability and toughness to the field.

 

Who knows where the franchise is if Danny didn't **** that up.

[Springfield]

4 hours ago, hail2skins said:

Shanny was arguably the most disappointing of the Snyder hirings. Yes, we did have the RG3 magic, and the injury and the effect on the following year was unfortunate. And Mike did inherit a garbage team, but those first two seasons were atrocious. If Ron puts up 6-10 and 5-11 the next two, you'll be calling for his head.

It’s very likely that our next two seasons are 6-10 and 5-11.  Also likely we’ll be calling for his head.  This is the typical Snyder trend.

[skinzdar55]

18 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

Coach' return for his 2nd go-around. 

 

And it's not even open to debate. 

 

The excitement when it first broke the Gibbs was returning was off the charts mad ecstasy. It completely unified the WHOLE fanbase. 

 

This is great as it's (hopefully) bringing around internal structuring right the way through the organisation to a professional level again. 

 

But it doesn't compare at all to the unadulterated bedlam of Coach' return. 

 

Hail.  

This right here ^^
 

I was working the graveyard shift and headed home, listening to the radio, a little after 7:00 am on the morning the news broke. I damn near wrecked my car. One of favorite moments of my entire fandom.

 

Now, RR may come in and lead our beloved team to a decade of dominance, with 2-3 SB wins. If that were to happen, we will be able to look back at this moment and rank it up there (or even above) with the return of Papa Joe, but until (if) that happens, I wholeheartedly agree with GHH.
 

We all just knew that JG was gonna save the day.

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Smurf3 said:

Rivera was good when Cam Newton was great. Cam Newton is a big RGIII, able to take the punishment of being a running QB much longer than RGIII was. Eventually, Newton wore down and so did Rivera's record. That performance by Carolina against the 'Skins this year was pathetic and it amazes me that the solution to the 'Skins coaching dilemma is the coach that got fired almost immediately after that game. Maybe Snyder associates Rivera with the Redskins winning, who knows? I think Rivera is known as a players' coach and the players really like him. That is exactly what the Redskins don't need. I think they should have kept Callahan.

 

I share your concern.  I hope Rivera contributed more to the success of Carolina during Newton's heyday but when I heard he was going to be the new Redskin coach this was my first thought.

 

Synder has hired a number of good coaches during his tenure as an owner.  Gibbs, Shanahan, and Schottenheimer all had either great or very substantial careers before working for Snyder.  I think Gruden is capable of having good coaching career with a better-managed franchise than the Redskins.  Snyder has some weak NFL coaches also but the real problems are in my view Snyder himself and weak GMs he has employed.  I don't expect a real improvement with Rivera.