Correcting the fan interest problem

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I don't really buy the stadium argument because RFK was a dump. It was, however, a dump that was fun as anything. But parking, accessability, seating, viewlines, the plubing, number of people that could fit in... There was a reason the Redskins left. Still, anyone who went there in the '80's put all that aside because the team was so good, the atmosphere with the band and fans was so fun, and the team was filled with people like Gibbs, Monk, and even the rascals like Riggo were lovable and not really bad.

 

That's 30-40 years ago, though, the Ravens right up the street have a GD holographic bird flying around right now : /

 

 

People got 4k, 8k televisions now with Sunday ticket.  Its about to be 2020, theres a reason we see article after article about Malls trying to think outside the box to get people to come in and shop at brick and mortar.

 

To @Art point, his OP was about winning back the fan base, nor jus getting folks in the stadium.  Those arent the same thing, they may go hand in hand, but a smaller stadium more focused on the fan experience has to be the long term plan, FedEx is an abomination compared to what Dallas has and how it goes out of it's way for its fans to enjoy as much as possible win or lose.

[The Rook]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I don't really buy the stadium argument because RFK was a dump. It was, however, a dump that was fun as anything. But parking, accessability, seating, viewlines, the plubing, number of people that could fit in... There was a reason the Redskins left. Still, anyone who went there in the '80's put all that aside because the team was so good, the atmosphere with the band and fans was so fun, and the team was filled with people like Gibbs, Monk, and even the rascals like Riggo were lovable and not really bad.

 

 Yes, it was a dump, but it was a lovable dump.  There was an honor in seating in dump with the rest of the fans - we were enjoying the miserable-ness together ala the older stadiums.  It sat what? 66k? But there was a closeness that ramped-up the fan loyality, even when the team wasn't winning.

 

What has been missing is the honor - the whole-sale firing of the office personnel (some who had been there for decades), the "show" of giving a bull-dozer to a tribe, the lack of owner public interface about decisions, blind-side firings, seemingly lack of care about players personally, questionable hires and on and on.

 

It seems like Dan and management has a habit of selecting the path with no honor.  Their inability to do the right thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.  The things suggested should have been in place already and frankly, because we the fans have to point it out shows the lack of awareness (or worse, willingness) to just do the right thing.

 

Every business gets to make the choice of having a good experience or just sucking every nickle out of the patrons, quality be damned.  I feel the Dan does the minimum.

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[megared]

48 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is bigger then whether it becomes a stadium, DC and Norton are taking the route that this land should go to DC and DC decide what to do with it, not Congress.  Saying again, Snyder needs to come out the box on this and reach out in support of DC being a state plus offer to pay for it himself to get DC Council on his side and change some votes in Congress.

 

I dont believe theres more then a minority in Congress that wants him to change the name, but the last time he tried it was blocked because it was the wrong bill to add that to and Congress again wants too much power over what goes on in DC.  He needs to get out his high castle and fight tooth and nail for the city he says he wants to being a championship to, or like you said, pray he can get a stadium all the way out in Loudon or something.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-bid-for-rfk-stadium-land-dealt-blow-in-last-weeks-federal-spending-bill/2019/12/21/8cc21c02-242d-11ea-86f3-3b5019d451db_story.html

 

 

It's a conversation that no-one is interested in having on Dan Snyder's behalf.  Maybe you're right about home rule.  But a football stadium shouldn't be the impetus for that movement.  And everyone would be able to clearly see through any involvement he would have. 

 

If he couldn't get it done when his friends held the majority in both chambers, it's less likely these people, that can't agree on much, are going to come together to give Dan Snyder his way.  All of their constituents agree on that being a bad idea.  

 

Then there's still the local debate to occur.  Not many people think a privately owned NFL stadium is the ideal use for that space.  Then the name debate.  

 

He's better off staying put, and waiting out unfavorable political winds, and hope like hell he can win in the meantime, to change public sentiment of the team.  Better that, than rushing into another suboptimal location for the next 30 years.  

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

It's a conversation that no-one is interested in having on Dan Snyder's behalf.  Maybe you're right about home rule.  But a football stadium shouldn't be the impetus for that movement.  And everyone would be able to clearly see through any involvement he would have. 

 

Fair, I'll say this is such mutually beneficial situation and clear reality this only chance to get the redskins back in DC.  The article came out DC was tearing it down, but how long is DC really going to let Congress force them to keep it a blank lot for?  Snyder really doesnt have to do anything but wait that out if he wants, but once that chance to get back in DC is gone its gone.

 

3 minutes ago, megared said:

If he couldn't get it done when his friends held the majority in both chambers, it's less likely these people, that can't agree on much, are going to come together to give Dan Snyder his way.  All of their constituents agree on that being a bad idea.  

 

Then there's still the local debate to occur.  Not many people think a privately owned NFL stadium is the ideal use for that space.  Then the name debate.  

 

Right now, 59% of DC supports Redskins at RFK site and 33% against.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/22/most-washingtonians-want-new-redskins-stadium-rfk-site-not-bill-post-poll-finds/%3foutputType=amp

 

I'd if was him I'd watch this go up and down and link winning the fan base back in some way to this number.  If it gets under 50%, I dont believe theres any going back.

 

3 minutes ago, megared said:

He's better off staying put, and waiting out unfavorable political winds, and hope like hell he can win in the meantime, to change public sentiment of the team.  Better that, than rushing into another suboptimal location for the next 30 years.  

 

I hate to agree with you, but idealism aside, you probably right he should wait this out and hope fielding a better organization will help his chances.  One of the things killing this is Snyder doesnt jus want a stadium, he wants mixed use, which is outside the current scope of the land. 

 

I dont knowing it's been proposed to jus make the site for the stadium, it already has some new parks built there.  Maybe scale back and focus on the smaller stadium and parks, maintaining scope of the lease and focusing on either extending it or finally jus giving it to DC.  He needs to work with both sides in Congress, not jus his buddies on one side, I actually dont want to believe hes doing that.

[Burgundy Yoda]

Ah, Brand Loyalty. This was a good post and definitely the best way to build connections if you have a losing team like we currently do. Brand loyalty also only works if people believe in your brand and openly talk about the brand. I've kept my head down about this team and basically only my family and close friends know I root for them, they've been shameful these last few years.

 

On a more positive note, I made my first Redskins social media post today in over a year. I'm legitimately proud of what has been accomplished today, I'd say this is a start. It feels different this time, we can't get rid of Dan but he can get rid of all his mistakes. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I like @Art's focus on youth as to bringing fans to the stadium.  

 

I've talked about this many times.  It's not easy for me (somehow thus far I am pulling it off but via a lot of effort 😀) to keep my kids Redskins fans.  My in laws are Giant fans.  I live in South Florida and we got fans from all over here.

 

I think a sneaky problem we've had is lack of star power.  National TV shows -- TV commercials -- fantasy football, etc has made star power I think more relevant to the younger generation than it was with ours.   It was easy as heck to hook my kids when we had RG3 in 2012.  RG3 mania was big time national.  But otherwise its been tough.

 

The NY Giants have stunk in recent years but yet they are still filling their stadiums compared to what we do.  You see Barkley jerseys everywhere.  Previously it was Beckham.  I think Beckham nailed it when he was traded to the Browns when he said he saved the Giants franchise during their recent down years by helping keep it relevant when he was there.   

 

If I recall we didn't have a single player with jersey sales in the top 100 last year whereas if I recall the other NFC East teams all had players in the top 10 and multiple ones in the top 20.    Years back we had quasi popular players and borderline national stars -- Moss, Portis, Taylor, etc.  Heck Dan was able to attract Landon Collins to come here in part because he was nostalgic for that crew of players.   

 

I like some of the players we got like Payne, Allen, etc but most fans (especially younger) aren't coming to games just to see them.  I do think that's hurt this team because its not just about the losing but its also been a relatively boring team with little pizzaz and star power.

 

That might change with Guice, Love, Haskins, McLaurin, etc.  Will see.  If I were Dan, Chase Young would be really intriguing because IMO he's not only a great player but he's a national conversation star type at the moment.  That's rare air for this franchise to be in the mix with.  If they draft a dude like that and he lives up to his billing -- that might help spice things up for the next generation. 

 

IMHO I think this team has a serious problem as to winning over a new generation of fans.   I see a lot of kids and even adults where I am at wear jerseys and I almost never see a Redskins jersey worn.  If a dude like Chase Young ends up a national NFL star similar to how he was in college -- a dude like that might give a boost to this team.  I can envision some Young jerseys going national since the dude is already national.

 

It's not the only problem we have but I do think their lack of star power in part of the soup.    I recall last year GMF ran a segment about fans complaining that their show gives too much attention to certain football teams.  So one of the hosts mocked the point by saying hey we can talk about the Titans and Redskins but who will watch?  That was a wow moment for me -- seeing a national TV show cite our team along with the Titans as the most obvious examples of boring teams that no one wants to hear about where they don't even have to elaborate on it because people get it.

  

[Macster]

On 12/30/2019 at 2:43 PM, Art said:

I attempt a standalone thread here because this seems like a reasonably different conversation with a concept not previously shared.

The Redskins are obviously suffering a decline in fan interest based purely on the merit of being largely uninteresting and sorry for far too long.  
 

MOD EDIT - DO NOT QUOTE LARGE BLOCKS OF TEXT. 
 

SEE RULE 11.

While I appreciate these ideas, the issue is, most of the people would never come back to the stadium ever again, unless given more free tickets so the brand loyalty of putting money back into Snyder's pocket probably would not happen. Would it create fans. Possibly but if the goal is to get fans back in the stands, the chances of this happening probably would not be very likely. With the cost of tickets to skins games, it's hard for almost any "normal" person to be able to afford the games, parking, food etc. The real way to build the fan base is to get back the people who were going before and stopped and it all relies around winning back those fans through not only a good product on the field but in good will. Make people feel like they aren't being nickle and dimed to death, show leadership and culture with the team, show dedication to the fans....that's how you get them/us back

[hail2skins]

4 minutes ago, Macster said:

While I appreciate these ideas, the issue is, most of the people would never come back to the stadium ever again, unless given more free tickets so the brand loyalty of putting money back into Snyder's pocket probably would not happen. Would it create fans. Possibly but if the goal is to get fans back in the stands, the chances of this happening probably would not be very likely. With the cost of tickets to skins games, it's hard for almost any "normal" person to be able to afford the games, parking, food etc. The real way to build the fan base is to get back the people who were going before and stopped and it all relies around winning back those fans through not only a good product on the field but in good will. Make people feel like they aren't being nickle and dimed to death, show leadership and culture with the team, show dedication to the fans....that's how you get them/us back

Over the past several years, for the most part one can get tickets to some of the best seats (club level) fairly cheaply for most games (read: not Dallas) on Stubhub.  Problem in 2018 was that the tickets were not as cheap due to what Lafemina was doing, and in 2019, well, after the early high profile games, the season was already lost and thus the motivation to go to the games was not there. But yes, Snyder could do himself a lot of good by at least slashing parking and concession prices. 

[crabbypatty]

To be honest, all the proposed sites suck ass for the stadium. The city and infrastructure is just too crowded.

Really, Dulles would be the best site logistically, metros go out there, tons of room, etc.

but who the eff wants to have their stadium right next door to an airport? National harbor is a good area, but again a pain in the ass to reach by car, same with fedex and rfk.

 

[crabbypatty]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's 30-40 years ago, though, the Ravens right up the street have a GD holographic bird flying around right now : /

 

 

People got 4k, 8k televisions now with Sunday ticket.  Its about to be 2020, theres a reason we see article after article about Malls trying to think outside the box to get people to come in and shop at brick and mortar.

 

To @Art point, his OP was about winning back the fan base, nor jus getting folks in the stadium.  Those arent the same thing, they may go hand in hand, but a smaller stadium more focused on the fan experience has to be the long term plan, FedEx is an abomination compared to what Dallas has and how it goes out of it's way for its fans to enjoy as much as possible win or lose.

 

Holy crap, that thing was cool. Is that for real? or after effects on tv?

if the fans in the seats could see that, that's really awesome.

[c slag]

4 hours ago, hail2skins said:

The stadium was put up too quickly, looks ugly on the outside, and isn't in the best location. 

Didn't Prince George County want the new stadium located there at the time, because they were loosing two high dollar tenants in the Capitals and Bullets with the closing down of the nearby Capital Centre?

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, crabbypatty said:

 

Holy crap, that thing was cool. Is that for real? or after effects on tv?

if the fans in the seats could see that, that's really awesome.

I promise I wouldn't of posted that if I could prove it was fake from where I'm sitting.  Not saying we need something like that, but I agree that that is cool, an example of franchises going above and beyond to get folks to come in and spend $400-$500 or more to watch them play in person in the digital age.  

[Wildbunny]

14 hours ago, Art said:

This is a loss of money initially. 

I would rather sell your ideas as an investment rather than losing money, because that's what it is to me. Great ideas nonetheless. Even if you manage to grab 50% of those guys, that would still be huge.

 

14 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Living in the area, I can say it's not jus because the team sucks, the experience does as well.  You can get in there for less then $20 and folks still wont go, I had an entire row to myself for the Jets game.

 

Getting a shuttle between the two closests metro stations and the stadium would be huge for folks like my dad that dont want to do that walk anymore, hes getting older, and be easier for folks with little kids. Make it free, metro used to have one, I dont know if it was free.

 

Snyder needs to offer to build the stadium in DC with his own money.  I'll take him more seriously about trying to make up for the damage hes done.  Majority in DC want redskins back in DC, majority in DC dont want public funds goin to stadium.  

Most of those can be corrected with winning and classy organisation.

Politicians hates being associated with losing and bad culture, that makes them lose votes.

 

But if you starts winning, and here I mean, being a PO contender year in, year out, then it makes it easier dealing with politicians, they'll get you some stuff like bus lanes, metro, whatever to help you. Because that's good for you, they'll arrange site to help sellers nearby so they can earn some of those money as well.

 

Trying to get a new stadium out of nowhere after what we went through is not gimmy. But if the football side is more relevant and there's no **** coming out of the FO, then we can turn the tide. It won't happen overnight and will probably take 4/5 years before seeing the real benefits of this. But I agree, Snyder need to have that gesture of fully paying for the stadium that would make it way easier for everyone.

[PleaseBlitz]

Obviously a lot of issues (but not all) would be resolved if the team moved to the RFK site. RalJon is just too hard to get to just to pay hundreds of dollars to watch a **** team and deal with a miserable fan experience. 
 

Assuming we are working with FedEx and the goal is to reengage the locals, and also assuming that some effort will be made to produce a halfway decent product on the field (without which, no reengagement is possible), I would add the following to Art’s list (note that I haven’t been to FedEx in 15 years because it sucks and I have better things to do with my time):

 

Hire a Director of Fan Experience, similar to what Lafemina did, so that not only is there a person working to improve it, but also so there is some accountability. Involve this person in every non-player decision (e.g., so they hopeful stop things like pimping out the cheerleaders). Make this person speak to the media regularly, and also hold townhalls similar to an elected official to speak directly to fans. 
 

Improve access to the far away metro stop (eg a moving walkway like at airports). Also run buses, operated by the team, from various points around the area, and use that time to engage the fans. 
 

Designate family friendly seating areas and police the fan conduct moreso than elsewhere. Install a kids playground like at Nats Park. 
 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

First these things need to happen:

 

1. Build a consistent winner.

2. Dan not interfering and let the football people do their job.

 

Those 2 will go a long way to recreate the relationship with the fans.  

 

At the same time those are going on:

 

3.  You build a better relationship with the fans. No more suing little old ladies.  Ron will play a big role this, I think.

4.  Create a better fan experience, as mentioned already.

 

 

The first 2 points are critical.  If the typical Redskins scenario, where I said Ron gets fired in 4 years happens; then that's probably it for the fandom.  I can't see fanbase recovering from another coaching failure and Dan interfering again. 

 

I also, don't expect a rush of fans to come back right away.  It will be a look and see attitude.  Also, it will probably take 2 to 3 seasons of consistent winning for people to fully believe in the team again.

 

[bakedtater1]

On 12/30/2019 at 8:13 PM, crabbypatty said:

 

Holy crap, that thing was cool. Is that for real? or after effects on tv?

if the fans in the seats could see that, that's really awesome.

Its real..its there pet mascot..biggest raven I've ever seen...wow!!...

 

 

**** can fantasy football for starters.

[kingdaddy]

Dan should do what Arthur Blank did in Atlanta and roll the concessions prices back to the 1980's; 4 dogs, 2 Cokes, 2 beers...$22.

He also needs to address the fans as an embarrassed owner who has let the fans down. We need to see a side of him that cares about us.  

His next presser needs to be impactful...covering the Trent situation and what the plan is moving forward. The fans are out there, he needs a full blown marketing plan to bring them back.

I live in Philly and am a huge Sixers fan. The Sixers were a down-trodden team just a few short years ago but they now lead the league in attendance. Their ownership made the fan experience a high priority and it is working. With change their is hope for the Redskins and us fans.

[LD0506]

What do you do when find yourself in a hole? Stop digging. There are a lot of interesting ideas being floated here but IMO there are downstream, things tbd in the future (ie winning seasons, stadium, etc.) Right now, today, there is a narrow window of opportunity to seize the attention and doing something scary and bold and smart. The presser introducing Rivera as the new coach could be a springboard to wrest control of the narrative away from "Same ole Skins, they'll screw this up too...." medioids and seriously change the course of the franchise.

 

But that would take balls, balls the size of boulders and the vision to see it through. And there's only one person that can and should do it- Dan Snyder.

 

Attend the presser, introduce Rivera, face the media and just suck it up...... and oh yeah, in response to the very first question, say "Just call me Dan...." You'd see jaws dropping, literally. New Years day of a new decade and a new regime, carpe the **** outta the diem and do something significant, you'd shoulder you way into the playoff coverage and grab the fans attention and get people talking and give RR a huge honeymoon gift. Rivera alone brings respect to attract talent, booting Allen made that happen but add a lil boost of assurance that things honestly ARE changing and his job gets easier.

 

Dan craves the love and respect from fans and never gets it, is the needy ex that never lets it go and never realizes that they were the problem. We're not only not impressed with his yacht but hold that against him as a sign of his insecurity. Perception IS the reality, so change that. The possibility exists, in the same way the possibility exists that I hit the Powerball, in spite of astronomically long odds. 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

This is Dan's  last chance. The stadium is full of other team's fans and many fans are apathetic about the team.

 

If the Rivera era ends up similar to the Shanny era and it's due to Snyder interference; that will be it for the fans.

Dan will loose whatever remaining fans he has and team will be a prime candidate to be relocated to London,

 

So, Dan has to change his ways this time or else.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

They have to win. And win for a while. This team is a joke to anyone under 30 in the surrounding areas. I bring it up a lot but I routinely get clowned for wearing Skins gear. It happened when I lived in PG County (where the stadium is for those that don’t know) and it has happened since I’ve moved to NoVa.

 

I honestly think the Skins are the 2nd most popular team in the area for younger folks (18-34) behind Dallas. The younger you look, and I’d say the Ravens are taking fans and honestly I’ve seen a lot of little kids in Mahomes jerseys around town recently. Giving these kids cheap tix won’t matter because they’ll just cheer for the other team 

 

They have to win. And having a legit star or two would help as well. 

[SB17]

Good ideas, @Art.  I’ll add my two to your list:

 

8.  Win (as many have said).  Winning makes other difficiencies bearable (see@Burgold and @The Rook’s comments about the “lovable” dump RFK was ... because we were winning!).  I know:  easier said ...

 

9.  Stop insulting and screwing the fans over and taking advantage of our loyalty by gauging us for ridiculous parking, outrageous concessions, etc., when the on-field performance is embarrassing.  Ticket prices are high enough, and I don’t care if other teams do it - they’re winning and Dan Snyder’s team has not been winning for basically two decades.

[dyst]

Can someone explain why we can’t simply break the lease at FedEx field? 
 

I imagine there is a cost penalty in doing so, but are we seriously stuck there for another decade without an out?

[illone]

I dont think he cares. 
 

Nfl runs a rev-share model so redskins get paid regardless of the fans being pissed. 

[hail2skins]

7 hours ago, dyst said:

Can someone explain why we can’t simply break the lease at FedEx field? 
 

I imagine there is a cost penalty in doing so, but are we seriously stuck there for another decade without an out?

The lease expires in 2027...I'm not sure whether that includes the actual 2027 season or not. But consider, if the RFK site is still the desired one, and the old stadium isnt slated to be demolished until mid to late 2021, the earliest youd have a new facility ready to go I think would be 2025.

 

So they are going to be at Landover for at least the next five seasons, IMO.

[FedEx Nosebleed]

Contrast the Nationals, from 2005 through 2012 when they first made the playoffs, with the Redskins of the Snyder era.  They introduced a kid-friendly mascot, Screech.  They introduced kids run the bases on Sunday afternoon games.  They have an affordable Nats Kids Club.  When they built the new stadium, they built a literal playground into the outfield.  They give away a ton of discount tickets to local little leagues, boy scout troops, girl scout troops, youth soccer teams, etc. etc.  They empower their stadium staff to eject, promptly, unruly fans who drink too much and keep the environment from being family friendly.   What's the result?

 

You have parents who, starting in 2005, were comfortable bringing kids from 2 years old on up to the games. The 2 year olds of 2005 are 17 now, and buying their own tickets to games with their friends.  My kids regularly went to Nats games from that age on up, because I was never concerned about their safety, or what language they'd learn from the fans around them, and because the stadium had an area to keep them engaged when they didn't understand (or care about watching the game -- while I sure did!).  The Redskins have done NONE of those things, and for a long time fostered a rowdy drunken in-game stadium experience that appealed to a certain male 18-40 demographic but NOBODY else.  Net result, neither of my kids cares, at all, about the Redskins.  But they can tell you exactly how the Nationals and Capitals are doing at any moment of the season.  And that's a story I know has been repeated all over the DMV.

 

if Dan Snyder needs to fix this fan base, he needs to figure out how to hook the next generation of fans before they're formed team preferences, or else he's never going to get them.  That, in turn, means creating a stadium environment that's OK for families and kids, which probably means selling less beer and being less tolerant of drunken behavior.  Because it cuts into his bottom line, I doubt he'll have enough of a long view to ever do it.