Anselmheifer Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Regarding the above post, Ioannidis is going to eat this year. Given that he’s not as good against the run as Allen, the new 1 gap defense may help him see the field more and could make Allen more expendable if we don’t want to pay him. I like the YouTube above. The video is long, but if you’re redskins starved, or just drive a lot like I do, it’s not a bad listen. I was feeling unexcited about our linebacker group, but I think I’m coming along and now feel more similarly to the guy in the above video. we don’t have any one, dominant player, but minus Ryan Anderson, our LB’s can all really run. Our team speed next year should be much improved on defense. we also have really good depth. I currently think we go with Thomas Davis at SAM, Cole Holcomb at MIKE, and SDH or KPP at WILL. If Reuben Foster is healthy, he could start at MIKE and bump Holcomb over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Monster lineup IMO. And I'm thinking Allen may be second team. Ian lead the team in sacks, Payne is just a dog, Chase and Montez are going to cause hate and discontent for QBs. So you've got Allen, Kerrighan, Settle, Brantley and Nate Orchard (who btw, might be that dude in Del Rio's defense). Not sure how this gets sorted out. But its a great problem to have. I didn't mention Ryan, because I think he's a lock in the run game. I do believe Kerrighan will be used to spell guys. I've never really liked his play recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderDOOM Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, joeken24 said: Monster lineup IMO. And I'm thinking Allen may be second team. Ian lead the team in sacks, Payne is just a dog.... Hard to imagine "politics" not keeping Allen as a starter. Could be the best move anyway but an even better finesse to not **** up the lockeroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 0 chance Jonathan Allen is going to be a 2nd teamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Really, the terms "starter", "1st teamer", "2nd teamer" are more or less irrelevant on a DL, especially interior DL. You're going to have a heavy rotation there, especially when you have as much talent as we do. As far as Ioan vs Allen in general though, it's hard to argue that Ioan didn't have more of an impact than Allen last season. He had 8.5 sacks vs 6 for Allen and 11 TFL vs 7 for Allen. On tackles and assists they were pretty close to even with 42/22 for Ioan and 46/22 for Allen. Ioan also did this while facing more double teams (there was an infographic posted about it in some thread a while back). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 On 7/6/2020 at 9:32 AM, Warhead36 said: 0 chance Jonathan Allen is going to be a 2nd teamer. I imagine that they are going to state Allen, Payne, MI, Kerrigan, Young and Sweat are all starters, and they rotate based on package and need. Hopefully JDR can figure out how to have most of those guys on the field at the same time somehow. I doubt that's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Allen is the captain of our defense and probably team. Our coaches aren't morons and he's not expendable. That's really stupid to suggest. It's Madden. Also, being the starter in a position group that everyone considers rotation to be most important makes that pointless to bring up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I imagine that they are going to state Allen, Payne, MI, Kerrigan, Young and Sweat are all starters, and they rotate based on package and need. Hopefully JDR can figure out how to have most of those guys on the field at the same time somehow. I doubt that's possible. I could see it happening, though there are only two guys there who could drop and cover a back it the flat in the case of something like a fire zone blitz (Young and Sweat). I suppose they could just load up the line and hope they get to the QB in under 2 seconds before he can get the ball out to a hot receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Who starts is going to come down to what package they run out there in the first series. It'll be situational. The depth chart in each of the packages will largely come down to role. Allen will be first string in packages where they need someone lining up a little wider because he's faster than Ioannidis and is going to be better at playing 4 and 5 tech and beyond, so that IDLs responsibility within the formation is the key. And preseason plans get scrapped when the bullets are flying anyway. Snap counts are going to be determined by working around injury and weekly match up and fatigue. If we're doing this right, if the offense can keep the ball at a functional rate, and if we have relatively good luck with injuries, then all four of our good IDLs are going to get between 400 and 700 snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 What a wild bunch of riches to have at IDL. Its pretty unheard of. Lol 400-700 snaps based on what offenses dictate for 4 guys with potentially no real drop off. Our defense is going to be so fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 40 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: What a wild bunch of riches to have at IDL. Its pretty unheard of. Lol 400-700 snaps based on what offenses dictate for 4 guys with potentially no real drop off. Our defense is going to be so fun to watch. That's my estimation for how to keep them fresh through a 16 game schedule. A playoff run could easily add 150-200 snaps to their season, so it's important to try and keep their snap counts down. We need to get off the field on third down and we're going to need an effective ball control offense to do it. Last year, Io played almost 1000 snaps in the regular season. Payne and Allen were well over 700. They played OK at those snap counts, but if we could keep them fresher and play better situational football as a team, they could realize their potential and be dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Thorn is probably the most respected OL/DL analyst on Twitter FWIW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 18 hours ago, mistertim said: I could see it happening, though there are only two guys there who could drop and cover a back it the flat in the case of something like a fire zone blitz (Young and Sweat). I suppose they could just load up the line and hope they get to the QB in under 2 seconds before he can get the ball out to a hot receiver. Well, actually now that you mention it, you could put Kerrigan and Sweat as OLBs, and then have the line be Allen, MI, Payne and Young. You have SERIOUS issues with coverage if you don't get a sack, but you could bring all 6 if you wanted to... Though I also bet you could drop DY into a soft zone as well. Wouldn't it be WILD, if they lined up with 6 pass rushers then only brought 3 and dropped 8 total and played coverage? I mean, you couldn't make a living doing that, but I bet you could trick a middling or worse QB to panic and throw a ball directly to a big fat DT dropping into coverage. I remember YEARS ago, the Packers did that with Gilbert Brown. I think in a playoff game. I remember Madden calling it. They dropped Brown, at 340lbs into coverage, and the QB threw the ball right to him, and he dropped it. Or knocked down. At least that's my memory. And I'm sticking to it. (I can hear Madden saying, "And look who's dropped into coverage! Big Gibert Brown! He's going to need O2 after that! Boom!" (I added the boom.)) They should at least line up that way once or twice per game just to get it on film, and make OCs have to plan for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Koolblue13 said: What a wild bunch of riches to have at IDL. Its pretty unheard of. Lol 400-700 snaps based on what offenses dictate for 4 guys with potentially no real drop off. Our defense is going to be so fun to watch. I'm going to wait and see. We said the same last thing last year and then were Manuskied. It SHOULD be really good. But there are 2 possibilities 1. They ARE really good. Everybody is stepping up, the run and pass defenses are better. The confusion in the secondary which has plagued the system is resolved, and it's pretty clear we were Manuskied. 2. They are good, but it's obvious that the reason is Chase Young, and he elevates everybody around him. The rest of the defense performs about the way it did previously, but having an elite pass-rusher covers up some ills. 3. They aren't good. It wasn't Manusky's fault, we just overrate Allen, Payne, Kerrigan and others on the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Well, actually now that you mention it, you could put Kerrigan and Sweat as OLBs, and then have the line be Allen, MI, Payne and Young. You have SERIOUS issues with coverage if you don't get a sack, but you could bring all 6 if you wanted to... Though I also bet you could drop DY into a soft zone as well. Wouldn't it be WILD, if they lined up with 6 pass rushers then only brought 3 and dropped 8 total and played coverage? I mean, you couldn't make a living doing that, but I bet you could trick a middling or worse QB to panic and throw a ball directly to a big fat DT dropping into coverage. I remember YEARS ago, the Packers did that with Gilbert Brown. I think in a playoff game. I remember Madden calling it. They dropped Brown, at 340lbs into coverage, and the QB threw the ball right to him, and he dropped it. Or knocked down. At least that's my memory. And I'm sticking to it. (I can hear Madden saying, "And look who's dropped into coverage! Big Gibert Brown! He's going to need O2 after that! Boom!" (I added the boom.)) They should at least line up that way once or twice per game just to get it on film, and make OCs have to plan for it. I like most of this except for Allen at 4-3 DE. When watching all of his cutups I watched him play some snaps as a 5/7 tech in a 4 man front and it was pretty unimpressive. He doesn't have the speed and bend/flexibility to get around the edge and doesn't have the length to stop Tackles from getting into his pads. On the snaps I saw he was pretty easily neutralized by decent Tackles. IMO Allen is a pure 3 tech inside guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 @Voice_of_Reason I get what you're putting down, but I think it'll be a bunch of those things. I dont expect Chase to have nearly the impact that hell get the credit for. I also think having 4 quality guys in a solid rotation will make them better as a whole, rather than individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, mistertim said: I like most of this except for Allen at 4-3 DE. When watching all of his cutups I watched him play some snaps as a 5/7 tech in a 4 man front and it was pretty unimpressive. He doesn't have the speed and bend/flexibility to get around the edge and doesn't have the length to stop Tackles from getting into his pads. On the snaps I saw he was pretty easily neutralized by decent Tackles. IMO Allen is a pure 3 tech inside guy. I don't disagree, but in my scenario, you also have either Sweat or Kerrigan rushing from either right inside or outside of Allen, so the most Allen would have to do at DE is get some push on the tack, or at least occupy him, and that causes a problem. I don't know how well MI would do as a DE, I see him more interior as well. Payne can't play DE, he's best smack in the middle. I think MI is the best interior rusher they have. Again, in my little scenario, you only play it once or twice a game as a wrinkle. And the purpose is more to confuse the offense than anything. It's possible if you lined up with all 6 of these guys, with (as an example) Sweat right on the outside shoulder of Allen, the tackle might not know who to pick up, and ends up wiffing on both. I've seen that happen plenty of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 37 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: @Voice_of_Reason I get what you're putting down, but I think it'll be a bunch of those things. I dont expect Chase to have nearly the impact that hell get the credit for. I also think having 4 quality guys in a solid rotation will make them better as a whole, rather than individually. And I don't disagree. My point is we've been thinking we have had really strong players in Allen and Payne, and the defense has still stunk. And couldn't stop the run. It did get sacks, but that's about it. So, there's at least the possibility that we've got Ashburn syndrome and Allen and Payne are not as good as we think, and the defense is a lot more average from a personnel perspective than we are giving it credit for. Personally, I don't think that's the case, and I think with real coaching, the defense can take a HUGE leap forward, because I think 90% of the problem last year was Manusky and the entire defensive coaching staff were actively bad at their jobs. And add to that the head coach had no idea how to structure a practice or conduct a training camp and prepare a team. And you have a weak ass mess of a team, even with some good talent. But I'm allowing for the possibility the players are not as good as I think they are because they haven't yet shown to be as good as I think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I'm going to wait and see. We said the same last thing last year and then were Manuskied. It SHOULD be really good. But there are 2 possibilities 1. They ARE really good. Everybody is stepping up, the run and pass defenses are better. The confusion in the secondary which has plagued the system is resolved, and it's pretty clear we were Manuskied. 2. They are good, but it's obvious that the reason is Chase Young, and he elevates everybody around him. The rest of the defense performs about the way it did previously, but having an elite pass-rusher covers up some ills. 3. They aren't good. It wasn't Manusky's fault, we just overrate Allen, Payne, Kerrigan and others on the defense. Ummm, which one of these 3 isn't one of the 2 possibilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 47 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said: Ummm, which one of these 3 isn't one of the 2 possibilities? the third one! 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 7:54 AM, Anselmheifer said: I like the YouTube above. The video is long, but For real, it's literally the length of an NFL game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I don't disagree, but in my scenario, you also have either Sweat or Kerrigan rushing from either right inside or outside of Allen, so the most Allen would have to do at DE is get some push on the tack, or at least occupy him, and that causes a problem. I don't know how well MI would do as a DE, I see him more interior as well. Payne can't play DE, he's best smack in the middle. I think MI is the best interior rusher they have. Again, in my little scenario, you only play it once or twice a game as a wrinkle. And the purpose is more to confuse the offense than anything. It's possible if you lined up with all 6 of these guys, with (as an example) Sweat right on the outside shoulder of Allen, the tackle might not know who to pick up, and ends up wiffing on both. I've seen that happen plenty of times. Ok that makes more sense; I was thinking of Allen there as a rush end. I don't see MI doing well as a DE in a 4-3 either...he also doesn't have the speed or agility. IMO both he and Allen are pure 3 tech guys. Doing that a few times a game, and then faking it and doing a fire zone where guys would drop at other times, could definitely put a defense on its heels if done correctly. Those sorts of creative defenses and adjustments are something we've sorely lacked for so damn long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 @Voice_of_Reason #3 is what worried me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, dyst said: @Voice_of_Reason #3 is what worried me. Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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