4-3 Starting Lineup

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Skins spent two second round picks on Sweat and then tried to transition him from a full time DE to an OLB in a 3-4 front.  I think it would be silly to do anything to potentially reduce his reps so early in his career.  Let him grow into the position that he was always better suited toward and you have a DE that can contribute long term instead of paying for someone else's talent.

 

How many DTs will the Skins likely carry?  Five?:  Allen (25), Ionnidis (26), Payne (22), Settle (22), Brantley (25)?  Or is it just four with Settle and Brantley battling it out for the last spot?  Keep in mind that Settle is still only 22 and he was expected to require work in the weight room.    

 

Do we assume 4 DEs?  Young, Sweat and Kerrigan are locks.  R. Anderson may have an edge if he can fill in at both SLB and DE.  Brailford and Bee were good stories and fairly productive when they had an opportunity.

 

It would be nice if the Skins could swap some of these depth players to another team that had an excess in an area of need for the Skins. 

[Tedskins 21]

On 4/27/2020 at 4:05 PM, mistertim said:

 

Why would we even want Clowney for all the money he's apparently trying to demand ($17m-$18m per year)? The dude is good but has never even had a double digit sack season. Yes he gets hurries and pressures (and those are important, obviously) but he isn't a "closer"...IMO he's too stiff in the hips to bend like a Garrett or Mack (or Chase Young). He's also injury prone; IIRC he's missed over 20 games over his 6 year career. Pass.

 

It is not my money.  If we can fit him under the cap for a year, who cares how much it costs? 

 

Unless unspent cap is somehow carried over?  I do not think that is true, but someone give me a lesson if I need it.  Maybe my understanding of the cap is wrong.  

 

On 4/27/2020 at 5:53 PM, nonniey said:

Wow some crazy proposals. Lets just trade everyone who isn't a DE and sign or trade for every top DE in the league.

 

1.  We wouldn't be giving up assets for Clowney, and he could potentially play SAM, albeit maybe not in the ideal sense.

2.  He is a WEAPON.  If you don't think adding Clowney would excite RR/JDR and significantly improve the team, you are nuts. 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

It is not my money.  If we can fit him under the cap for a year, who cares how much it costs? 

 

Unless unspent cap is somehow carried over?  I do not think that is true, but someone give me a lesson if I need it.  Maybe my understanding of the cap is wrong.  

 

 

1.  We wouldn't be giving up assets for Clowney, and he could potentially play SAM, albeit maybe not in the ideal sense.

2.  He is a WEAPON.  If you don't think adding Clowney would excite RR/JDR and significantly improve the team, you are nuts. 

 

Sure, it's not your money, but that still doesn't mean it makes sense. 

 

1. Couple of things on this one. First, Clowney sucks in coverage; he's stiff in the hips and has mediocre lateral agility in space so at SAM he'd probably spend half of his time getting scorched by TEs. Second, he's said he hates having to be in coverage so if we wanted to bring him on and play him as a SAM he'd probably tell us to piss off. If we wanted him as only a situational SAM for pass rushing that's an awful lot of money to pay for a purely situational guy.

 

2. We already have at least 3 top notch weapons at DE. If Chase lives up to his potential, he's quite possibly going to be elite from the get-go. Sweat really started tapping his potential near the end of last season, especially when they let him pin his ears back and stopped dropping him into coverage so much. Kerrigan is getting older but he can still be a quality rotational guy at LDE.

 

Clowney wants elite money but he isn't elite IMO. He's very good but he's never lived up to his draft position or potential. He's also consistently had the label as a guy without a great work ethic or drive to be great...which is exactly the kind of dude RR is unlikely to go for; hes a merc looking for a big payday. Once you add in his long injury history, I just don't see the value. 

[Tedskins 21]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Sure, it's not your money, but that still doesn't mean it makes sense. 

 

1. Couple of things on this one. First, Clowney sucks in coverage; he's stiff in the hips and has mediocre lateral agility in space so at SAM he'd probably spend half of his time getting scorched by TEs. Second, he's said he hates having to be in coverage so if we wanted to bring him on and play him as a SAM he'd probably tell us to piss off. If we wanted him as only a situational SAM for pass rushing that's an awful lot of money to pay for a purely situational guy.

 

2. We already have at least 3 top notch weapons at DE. If Chase lives up to his potential, he's quite possibly going to be elite from the get-go. Sweat really started tapping his potential near the end of last season, especially when they let him pin his ears back and stopped dropping him into coverage so much. Kerrigan is getting older but he can still be a quality rotational guy at LDE.

 

Clowney wants elite money but he isn't elite IMO. He's very good but he's never lived up to his draft position or potential. He's also consistently had the label as a guy without a great work ethic or drive to be great...which is exactly the kind of dude RR is unlikely to go for; hes a merc looking for a big payday. Once you add in his long injury history, I just don't see the value. 

 

Regardless of the "not my money" comment, if it doesn't impinge on any other plans for signing free agents, then it can make sense.  Talent is talent.  

 

First, I personally am not sold on Sweat living up to his first round status.  Hopefully he proves me wrong this year.

 

Secondly, I am not indicating as a SAM he line up in coverage (at least not consistently.)  If you go back, you will see I said to just send 5.

 

He can play the role similar to Marcus Washington circa mid 2000's.  It wasn't ideal to have him out in the flat or up the seam, so we blitzed him, I would say, half the time (granted he might be better in space than Clowney, but my memory is fuzzy.)  Having Young, Sweat/Kerrigan, and Clowney on the field at the same time probably indicates what we are going to do, but it doesn't mean you are going to be able to stop it.

 

Obviously, I am on a forum discussing the potential of having Young, Sweat, Kerrigan, and Clowney.  We are 99% not going to go after him, for many different reasons. But money should be at the absolute bottom of that list, especially if it is a one year deal.  You can argue scheme, crowding, etc., but Clowney at this point is better than both Kerrigan and Sweat.  He is someone the opposition plans for.

 

Maybe Sweat takes a leap this year, and Kerrigan is more impactful with his hand in the dirt.  I think the chances of both are high, due to change in coaching, scheme, and most importantly, the impact of Chase Young.

 

I miss that aggressive 2004/05 defense under Greggg.  Corner and safety blitzes all day.  Sean had his first pick and first sack in this game if I remember correctly.  His sack dance was a lil jukebox.  

 

 

[mistertim]

How is Clowney some huge upgrade over Sweat outside of salary? Last season, as a rookie, Sweat had over 2 times as many sacks as Clowney (7 vs 3), 3 fewer QB pressures (27 vs 30), the same number of QB hits (13), and one more TFL (8 vs 7). This whole theory that Clowney is some big upgrade just doesn't seem to bear out when you look at the actual numbers...especially when compared to cost. 

[Tedskins 21]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

How is Clowney some huge upgrade over Sweat outside of salary? Last season, as a rookie, Sweat had over 2 times as many sacks as Clowney (7 vs 3), 3 fewer QB pressures (27 vs 30), the same number of QB hits (13), and one more TFL (8 vs 7). This whole theory that Clowney is some big upgrade just doesn't seem to bear out when you look at the actual numbers...especially when compared to cost. 

 

It isn't one or the other.  It would be both...

 

Also, stats don't tell the whole story. Don't you know that?  We can agree to disagree.

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

It isn't one or the other.  It would be both...

 

Also, stats don't tell the whole story. Don't you know that?  We can agree to disagree.

 

That's why I included advanced stats like pressures and QB hits. Even in advanced stats they're really close. 

 

Sure, it doesn't have to be either/or, but if you already have a younger guy who can quite possibly give you the same production for literally 7x less money than what Clowney would cost...why even bother? Especially when we also have another just as productive player in Kerrigan in the rotation who also costs less than Clowney?

 

It just seems like a complete luxury pickup for the sake of it. Like buying a gold plated Desert Eagle that jams a bunch and has ****ty accuracy when you have two Sigs and a Glock that hit dead center and never malfunction.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

How is Clowney some huge upgrade over Sweat outside of salary? Last season, as a rookie, Sweat had over 2 times as many sacks as Clowney (7 vs 3), 3 fewer QB pressures (27 vs 30), the same number of QB hits (13), and one more TFL (8 vs 7). This whole theory that Clowney is some big upgrade just doesn't seem to bear out when you look at the actual numbers...especially when compared to cost. 

 

I was with you until this post.  Let's be real.  Clowney is a far better pass rusher than Sweat at this point, despite what the raw stats say.

 

 

 

I do agree though that it would be a waste of resources to sign him.  It would also stunt Sweat's growth, who needs as many reps as he can get so that he can learn how to use his hands effectively at the pro level.

[Commander Wolffe]

Not concerned. We have the cap space. Although I would like to apply those resources for a splash at linebacker or corner.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:33 PM, kingdaddy said:

I'll do you one better, and I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but with our cap space why not go out and sign Clowney? Think about that defensive line?

Release Kerrigan now and give him a chance to hook up with a contender.....sign Clowney to go with the others and continue to see if there's any interest in Payne, Allen, Settle....Once Clowney is in the barn you give JDR an unreal defensive line that will be the equivalent of the Steel freakin Curtain. It's a crazy thought given the youth we have on the line but Clowney is only 27 years old and is one of the premier defenders in the league. He is a legit game wrecker and pairing him with Chase Young, Sweat, Allen and Ion would be insane. Give Clowney  a 3 year 50 mil deal

98ORAKPO98 has an alt account?
.

[Number 44]

I think the "report" that we were in trade talks for Clowney was fake news anyway.

[ultravin]

i'd like clay matthews before Clowney. probably get him a lot cheaper too.

 

[Kingkylr1008]

As someone who has spent some time around Clowney i wouldn’t want him around our young defensive lineman. He is a freak talent that is the best I ever saw in high school. But he has always felt entitled and doesn’t have a great work ethic unless he is pushed by the right people. He’s not the guy I would want Young and Sweat learning from unless he has changed a lot since college and judging by his career since then he hasn’t. 

[mistertim]

11 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I was with you until this post.  Let's be real.  Clowney is a far better pass rusher than Sweat at this point, despite what the raw stats say.

 

I do agree though that it would be a waste of resources to sign him.  It would also stunt Sweat's growth, who needs as many reps as he can get so that he can learn how to use his hands effectively at the pro level.

 

That's fair. And I would agree that overall Clowney is a better pass rusher right now than Sweat. However, I also think he's overrated and not worth the money he's asking. 

 

Another issue I've had with him since college is something I mentioned here before...he isn't a closer. He gets plenty of pressures (which are certainly good and do affect the game) but he doesn't finish often and actually get the sack. In my (admittedly amateur) opinion part of that is because he's stiff in the hips and doesn't bend well to get the angle to the QB, and part of it is because he's mostly still going mostly on pure athleticism and still only using the same two moves he did in college: a long arm/bull rush and a swim move. That's pretty much all I ever saw him do coming out and it's pretty much all I see him do now with any regularity.

 

And that's ok if i it works well and you have counters and can finish the pass rush and get to the QB sometimes. But he doesn't really seem to have counters and doesn't get that many sacks in proportion to how many pressures he gets. To me this also may go back to the questions about his drive and work ethic. He's refined himself a bit since entering the league but he's still basically playing the same way he did in college. Fortunately for him his freakish explosion and length let him get by with that more than most other guys, but IMO it still shows his limitations and that he's never really reached his potential. 

[Master Blaster]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

That's fair. And I would agree that overall Clowney is a better pass rusher right now than Sweat. However, I also think he's overrated and not worth the money he's asking. 

 

 

 

 

Two prior teams who gave up on him and the free agency market say you are right.

[Est.1974]

On 4/27/2020 at 7:20 PM, Koolblue13 said:

Sweat's a baller and is going to get much better. 

I hope so. Would be very interesting to know what Rivera thinks about him and how he rated him during the draft last year. Panthers need edge and took Burns instead. Maybe they scratched Sweat off due to the medical concerns.

 

He sure came on last year though. Intriguing to see how he kicks on under JDR.

[NYSkins21]

18 hours ago, Number 44 said:

I think the "report" that we were in trade talks for Clowney was fake news anyway.

Who would we on trade talks with? He's a UFA.

[Number 44]

6 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

Who would we on trade talks with? He's a UFA.

Sorry.  That's what I meant.  I seriously doubt if we are in on him.  The site quoted was not a reliable site.

[NYSkins21]

1 minute ago, Number 44 said:

Sorry.  That's what I meant.  I seriously doubt if we are in on him.  The site quoted was not a reliable site.

Oh, lol. I thought I was confused about him being an UFA. Yeah, count me out on him  too.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I hope so. Would be very interesting to know what Rivera thinks about him and how he rated him during the draft last year. Panthers need edge and took Burns instead. Maybe they scratched Sweat off due to the medical concerns.

 

He sure came on last year though. Intriguing to see how he kicks on under JDR.

Realistically he does compare to Peppers also. He's comparable to Young. Kerrigan is a solid vet in the rotation. Obviously Young is going to be a starter, but starter is a very blurred title on the Dline.

 

I hope they like him too. 

[Rex Tomb]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Realistically he does compare to Peppers also. He's comparable to Young. Kerrigan is a solid vet in the rotation. Obviously Young is going to be a starter, but starter is a very blurred title on the Dline.

 

I hope they like him too. 

I actually think the switch to the 4-3 will benefit Sweat most of all.  No/few coverage responsibilities, just go get the QB and play your gap in the run game.

[Koolblue13]

34 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

I actually think the switch to the 4-3 will benefit Sweat most of all.  No/few coverage responsibilities, just go get the QB and play your gap in the run game.

Him having to do that **** last season, should really help him this year too. I'd think having such athletic end pieces would be really fun.

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I hope so. Would be very interesting to know what Rivera thinks about him and how he rated him during the draft last year. Panthers need edge and took Burns instead. Maybe they scratched Sweat off due to the medical concerns.

 

He sure came on last year though. Intriguing to see how he kicks on under JDR.

 

35 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

I actually think the switch to the 4-3 will benefit Sweat most of all.  No/few coverage responsibilities, just go get the QB and play your gap in the run game.

Also, to add, I don't think that it's coincidental that Young said he was hitting up Sweat, after Allen.

[Skin'emAlive]

I wouldn’t be against a temp deal for Clowney, even though I think it would be a bad utilization of cap space, and could take away from the development of Young/Sweat. 
 

However, I am always fully behind any team doubling Or even tripling down on its strengths. Clearly our strength is the DL. 
 

Clowney/Sweat

Allen /Settle

Payne/Ion

Young/Kerrigan

 

Good lord. I know it’s not reasonable. But if he is looking to sign a 1/2 year prove it deal to the league, I could support that rotation. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Didn't one of the coaches recently say he would be playing DE?

 

 

 

Ah, nvm. 

 

 

[Stoox]

Can Ryan Anderson play SAM in this defense? If yes, that could solve a problem, but it appears the coaching staff likes Holcomb in that role.