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4-3 Starting Lineup


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Hate to jump too off-tangent, but I listened to the Junkies this morning to see what updates there were and they blasted Snyder for wanting a 4-3 DC with the next HC. I mean... take Snyder out of the picture and look at this in a vacuum. This team has never had the proper 3-4 personnel and never even properly tried. Just that switch alone would take better advantage of the existing personnel. It's not exactly a dumb idea, even if it comes from Danny Snyder.

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Really hoping we don’t make the switch. I feel like after a decade we’ve finally got good 3-4 personnel. I’d imagine both Allen and Payne shift inside. Sweat will play with his hand in the dirt. That leaves Kerrigan Young and Anderson as question marks. I feel like Young would be the other DE so maybe Kerrigan converts to OLB this late in his career? 

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Current depth, not accounting for draft choices:

 

3-Technique - Jon Allen/Matt Ioaniddas

1-Technique - Daron Payne/Tim Settle?

Defensive End - Ryan Kerrigan, Montez Sweat, Nate Orchard

MIKE: Reuben Foster, Cole Holcomb, Jon Bostic/SDH

SAM: (Foster)

WILL: Ryan Anderson

 

We have depth issues at DE and outside backer. Anderson at WILL is a little scary. You could potentially move him to the tight end side, and that makes it less scary, but he'd still need to be in coverage.

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Just now, KDawg said:

Current depth, not accounting for draft choices:

 

3-Technique - Jon Allen/Matt Ioaniddas

1-Technique - Daron Payne/Tim Settle?

Defensive End - Ryan Kerrigan, Montez Sweat, Nate Orchard

MIKE: Reuben Foster, Cole Holcomb, Jon Bostic/SDH

SAM: (Foster)

WILL: Ryan Anderson

 

We have depth issues at DE and outside backer. Anderson at WILL is a little scary. You could potentially move him to the tight end side, and that makes it less scary, but he'd still need to be in coverage.

 

If we are gonna do this, can one of you smart guys remind us how the 4-3 works and whats important in it again. Since the 100Mil era all I can think of is nose tackle cant be fat.....nose tackle cant be fat.......NOSE TACKLE CANT BE FAT!!!!!

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3 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

If we are gonna do this, can one of you smart guys remind us how the 4-3 works and whats important in it again. Since the 100Mil era all I can think of is nose tackle cant be fat.....nose tackle cant be fat.......NOSE TACKLE CANT BE FAT!!!!!

 

One of the smart people can answer after my reply...

 

But typically:

 

RDE (vs. LT) is your best pass rusher.

LDE (vs. RT) is your best run stopper.

3-Tech - as to plug a gap, obviously, but a better pass rusher of the 2 DTs.

1-Tech - Nose Tackle type

MIKE - best downhill attacking linebacker. Can be good in coverage but it can work even if he's not great. 

SAM/WILL - Need to be versatile. Likely will come off the field in a lot of modern NFL sets (with our current set up, but ideally these are the guys who stay on the field in Nickel unless you have Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher). They are coverage responsible for a TE (SAM) or slot receiver (WILL, but this can be the FS or SS depending) in man , and hook to curl (or curl to flat in zone.

FS - Best pass defending safety.

SS - best run stopping safety that is ideally decent against TEs

 

EDIT: Ideally you want linebackers who can be sound at the point of attack and cover. The more of them you have the better you'll be. Foster (again, if he's healthy) will likely stay on the field in nickel situations to be one of the two inside guys. The other inside guy is a similar issue to the SAM/WILL issue.

 

And if Foster isn't healthy we're in a similar situation backer wise to this season.

Edited by KDawg
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2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

One of the smart people can answer after my reply...

 

But typically:

 

RDE (vs. LT) is your best pass rusher.

LDE (vs. RT) is your best run stopper.

3-Tech - as to plug a gap, obviously, but a better pass rusher of the 2 DTs.

1-Tech - Nose Tackle type

MIKE - best downhill attacking linebacker. Can be good in coverage but it can work even if he's not great. 

SAM/WILL - Need to be versatile. Likely will come off the field in a lot of modern NFL sets (with our current set up). They are coverage responsible for a TE (SAM) or slot receiver (WILL, but this can be the FS or SS depending) in man , and hook to curl (or curl to flat in zone.

FS - Best pass defending safety.

SS - best run stopping safety that is ideally decent against TEs

 

EDIT: Ideally you want linebackers who can be sound at the point of attack and cover. The more of them you have the better you'll be. Foster (again, if he's healthy) will likely stay on the field in nickel situations to be one of the two inside guys. The other inside guy is a similar issue to the SAM/WILL issue.

 

And if Foster isn't healthy we're in a similar situation backer wise to this season.

 

This is actually exactly what I was looking for. Preciate ya breh 

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4 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

3-4 or 4-3, we're gonna need better LB at the very least.

OK you can put guys like Kerrigan or Sweat with the hands in the dirt, but the LB corp remains a problem whatsoever...

 

Blake Martinez could be nice fit. John Houston Jr. in the draft in the later rounds is something I would like too.

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7 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

3-4 or 4-3, we're gonna need better LB at the very least.

OK you can put guys like Kerrigan or Sweat with the hands in the dirt, but the LB corp remains a problem whatsoever...

 

This is music to my ears.

 

I love when people understand we have a linebacker issue. :ols:

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2 hours ago, Redskinzfan30 said:

Really hoping we don’t make the switch. I feel like after a decade we’ve finally got good 3-4 personnel. I’d imagine both Allen and Payne shift inside. Sweat will play with his hand in the dirt. That leaves Kerrigan Young and Anderson as question marks. I feel like Young would be the other DE so maybe Kerrigan converts to OLB this late in his career? 

 

I know it's foreign to some here because Bruce hardly did it, but you are allowed to trade players for picks or other players.  If the they do draft Chase I think you trade either Anderson or Kerrigan.  Teams were interested in Kerrigan at the trade deadline and he's coming into the final year of his contract.   If they can recoup a 2nd rd pick they should go for it.  There are other areas that need to be addressed.    

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3 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

If we are gonna do this, can one of you smart guys remind us how the 4-3 works and whats important in it again. Since the 100Mil era all I can think of is nose tackle cant be fat.....nose tackle cant be fat.......NOSE TACKLE CANT BE FAT!!!!!

https://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2010/3/3/1320038/alignment-coverages-and-basic

 

That is a really good article on the basics of the 4-3. If we are going to a 4-3 adding Young would make the front 7 pretty potent. One thing being overlooked is that in the 4-3 you are going to run A LOT of Tampa 2. You need press corners to run it effectively. It is one reason why Norman was a Pro Bowler in Carolina. He excelled at being a press corner. And we never used him the way he should have been used here. Foster is a perfect Mike in the 4-3 he has the physicality against the run and the speed to drop in coverage. I would put Anderson at the SAM and JHC at the WILL. So my alignment would look like this:

 

DT's: Payne and IO starters, Settle and Brantly depth

DE: Young starter, rotate Allen, Sweat on running and passing downs, Orchard or Brailford for depth

MIKE: Foster starter, Holcomb depth

SAM: Anderson starter, SDH depth

WILL: JHC starter, Odom depth

Corners: Dunbar, Moreland or Moreau starters, NEED DEPTH BADLY

SS: Collins, Everett

FS: Apke, NEED DEPTH BADLY

 

That is a pretty vicious front 7. But we are really lacking on the back end. Even with Collins and Dunbar in the fold. The other thing is you are going to need to bulk up your current OLB's to play DE in a 4-3. That is no big deal at the pro level. These guys can gain 20 pounds at dinner. But what does bulking up do to someone like Sweats speed?

Edited by clskinsfan
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18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

This is music to my ears.

 

I love when people understand we have a linebacker issue. :ols:

We've had this problem since Fletcher left. And even when he was here, it wasn't like they were great.

Think the last good set of LBs we had was  back in 2005. lol

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Just now, CrypticVillain said:

We've had this problem since Fletcher left. And even when he was here, it wasn't like they were great.

Think the last good set of LBs we had was  back in 2005. lol

 

Agreed.

 

I'm always... always... an OL/DL first guy. And we need those shored up first. And they need to be looked at yearly.

 

But this team has a DL that's pretty decent. Could use some depth, but it's not bad. The linebackers are a concern.

Just now, philibusters said:

Is Holcomb really worse than somebody like Ryan Anderson in coverage?

 

No. I wouldn't say that. But he's not as good off the edge, either, which is where Anderson would be valued as an OLB. 

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28 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

This is music to my ears.

 

I love when people understand we have a linebacker issue. :ols:

I've been on this train for some time. And I generally loves reading your thought about players/systems and everything that goes with it. Even if sometimes I disagree without having your whole knowledge regarding this :)

 

I remember having an argument with someone not so long ago about Holcomb. He's a good player, but if he's the best you have then you have a problem. Not a blast at the guy as I like it, he's been a very pleasant surprise, but he's no pro-bowler right now and probably never will.

 

If we want to go the 4-3 road, we're gonna need a Sean Lee (minus injuries) or a Luke Kuechly like Riveira had in Carolina. To me if you don't have that kind of LB in the middle you're in trouble.

You could hide that with better SS play with Collins in box more than often, but then we need a freaking FS, which we clearly don't have. Or Troy Apke's gonna make some freaking steps forward this off-season because Nicholson won't.

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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

This is music to my ears.

 

I love when people understand we have a linebacker issue. :ols:

I'm not sure that they are as bad as you're making them out to be. Yes, they constantly look lost and underprepared, but between SDH, Bostic and Holcomb the new coaching staff should be able to find a starter or two. At least passably. There were games that they played adequately. Which I know isn't the goal, but it's much better than some other positions. And fwiw, I'm quietly in the Simmons camp. Yes you take young, but......

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