4-3 Starting Lineup

[Stormy]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hudson should be interesting.  I didn't watch him before the draft but I did watch him post draft and I was impressed.  From what i saw I liked him more than the average draft observer.  Most of the draft geek types tout Hudson as more or less purely a special teams ace. 

 

But personally, I think he can be better than just a special teams stud.  I think he represents what they wanted Su'a Cravens to be -- a nickel, LB-safety combination.   I think Hudson has a better shot than Cravens and I don't just mean because of his better mental make up.  Hudson is the better athlete.  Cravens ran a 4.7.  Hudson is faster and stronger.  Hudson's intangibles are through the roof.

 

And the dude is a really fun watch, he's like the energizer bunny on the field, he looks like a baller, always going full speed and playing with oomph.  He's decent against both the pass and run and can rush the passer. I think he can be a surprise asset to this defense

 

 

https://247sports.com/college/michigan/Article/Michigan-football-NFL-Combine-recap-Linebacker-Khaleke-Hudson-144688241/

 

SPARQ: 126.8 (ninth out of 25 participants)

NFL athleticism percentile: 67.7th

40-yard dash: 4.56 seconds (eighth out of 26 participants)

10-yard split: 1.51 seconds (tied for second out of 26 participants)

 

Bench press: 30 (first out of 23 participants)

Vertical leap: 33 inches (tied for 13th out of 26

Broad jump: 10 feet (tied for 17th out of 35)

The skinny

 

While Hudson didn't leave Indianapolis with an overwhelmingly high buzz around him, he did impress in a couple key drills. His bench press success — especially for his size — might speak to his work ethic as much as his strength, and his 10-yard split will assure NFL teams of his burst off the line into the backfield, even if his long speed is a tad slow for others at his size and position.

Ultimately, his smaller frame might keep him from being selected in the draft's first two days on its own. But Hudson didn't hurt his stock at the Combine, and if his 3-cone and shuttle times correlate with his speed, it would certainly seem like teams could find a spot for someone with his combination of speed and strength.

I'm excited about the x-factor versatility that Hudson can bring to this defense too, even though it might be another year before you could reasonably expect that type of impact. I kind of wonder why he lasted as long in the draft as he did, and even then was considered a bit of a reach and purely a special teams ace by most of the draft geek community? Is this low regard purely based on his size, lack of a defined role, and his potential tweener status that projects him as neither a pure LB or pure Safety? That seems rather shortsighted and outdated in a league that increasingly sees the majority of defensive snaps in sub-packages (nickel/dime), and which increasingly values versatility at the nickel backer and hybrid safety position. 

 

Hudson has impressive production at a big time program; has off the charts character and leadership makeup; has elite special teams skillsets; and then tops it all off by testing at a very high percentile in numerous key athleticism metrics at the Combine. If anything, he seems like a guy whose buzz coming out of that showing could have boosted him into round 3-4, rather than see him still be around at the middle of the 5th. Either way, I'm really glad that we grabbed him where we did. I think a year of strength conditioning and learning from this LB-centric coaching staff, and behind guys liker Thomas Davis and Collins, while he tears it up on special teams, and we could have something pretty special in him. 

[FuriousD]

18 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

And they expect Foster to be back? That is insane. Our LBer situation gets a hell of a lot better if he is playing. That's our Bully. Have we really had a bully since Ken Harvey, except Trotter for a year? Marcus was a bad ass LBer, but I wouldn't call him a bully. I love London, but he's not a bully, especially when he was with us. Foster and Collins in the middle is scary.

Have you checked Fosters size lately?  I know size isn't everything but dude seems a bit small to be playing MLB.  Smaller than Sean Taylor btw...  Is MLB where he played for San Fran? Fosters frame & speed (providing he has some left) would seem to suggest a better fit at WIL but what do I know...

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, FuriousD said:

Have you checked Fosters size lately?  I know size isn't everything but dude seems a bit small to be playing MLB.  Smaller than Sean Taylor btw...  Is MLB where he played for San Fran? Fosters frame & speed (providing he has some left) would seem to suggest a better fit at WIL but what do I know...

 

 

I thought he was clear cut for WIL.  

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, FuriousD said:

Have you checked Fosters size lately?  I know size isn't everything but dude seems a bit small to be playing MLB.  Smaller than Sean Taylor btw...  Is MLB where he played for San Fran? Fosters frame & speed (providing he has some left) would seem to suggest a better fit at WIL but what do I know...

Pretty sure he's a MIKE, but if you get down to a dime, he's probably your only LBer in the game.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Stormy said:

I'm excited about the x-factor versatility that Hudson can bring to this defense too, even though it might be another year before you could reasonably expect that type of impact. I kind of wonder why he lasted as long in the draft as he did, and even then was considered a bit of a reach and purely a special teams ace by most of the draft geek community? Is this low regard purely based on his size, lack of a defined role, and his potential tweener status that projects him as neither a pure LB or pure Safety? That seems rather shortsighted and outdated in a league that increasingly sees the majority of defensive snaps in sub-packages (nickel/dime), and which increasingly values versatility at the nickel backer and hybrid safety position. 

 

Hudson has impressive production at a big time program; has off the charts character and leadership makeup; has elite special teams skillsets; and then tops it all off by testing at a very high percentile in numerous key athleticism metrics at the Combine. If anything, he seems like a guy whose buzz coming out of that showing could have boosted him into round 3-4, rather than see him still be around at the middle of the 5th. Either way, I'm really glad that we grabbed him where we did. I think a year of strength conditioning and learning from this LB-centric coaching staff, and behind guys liker Thomas Davis and Collins, while he tears it up on special teams, and we could have something pretty special in him. 

 

If I had to guess it I'd say that he didn't have a defined role and there were hybrid type athletic freaks like Simmons, Chinn, Dugger who triggered a lot of attention -- and someone like Hudson isn't in their class athletically.  If I recall Hudson I believe has short arms.    Also usually players that are undersized -- some want them to be speed demons to offset that.   And if they aren't super fast, their stock can sink.  See Steve Sims as an example who went undrafted. 

 

I've been right sometimes and wrong too when I've gone against the conventional rap from draft observers about college players transitioning to the pros.   As for Hudson, I am higher on him than most.  I think he's plenty athletic enough.  He has big time intangibles.  And he plays with a motor you can't teach. 

[Anselmheifer]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I had to guess it I'd say that he didn't have a defined role and there were hybrid type athletic freaks like Simmons, Chinn, Dugger who triggered a lot of attention -- and someone like Hudson isn't in their class athletically.  If I recall Hudson I believe has short arms.    Also usually players that are undersized -- some want them to be speed demons to offset that.   And if they aren't super fast, their stock can sink.  See Steve Sims as an example who went undrafted. 

 

I've been right sometimes and wrong too when I've gone against the conventional rap from draft observers about college players transitioning to the pros.   As for Hudson, I am higher on him than most.  I think he's plenty athletic enough.  He has big time intangibles.  And he plays with a motor you can't teach. 

 

I agree with all of this, but also with the above posters. Hudson is small, but plenty athletic. He's competitive, has a great work ethic and had major production at a big time program. And he was a special teams contributor. Seems like a Kyle Smith type pick. 

 

Hudson also seems like the type of player that a team with some stars and a winning defensive culture could develop into a solid contributor. He looks like the type of player the Ravens would draft and then get major contributions out of in 2 or 3 years 

[FuriousD]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Pretty sure he's a MIKE, but if you get down to a dime, he's probably your only LBer in the game.

You're right, 9'ers had him listed at ILB!  As you were...

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I agree with all of this, but also with the above posters. Hudson is small, but plenty athletic. He's competitive, has a great work ethic and had major production at a big time program. And he was a special teams contributor. Seems like a Kyle Allen type pick. 

 

Hudson also seems like the type of player that a team with some stars and a winning defensive culture could develop into a solid contributor. He looks like the type of player the Ravens would draft and then get major contributions out of in 2 or 3 years 

 

Yep.  Assume you mean Kyle Smith.   Some shades here of McLaurin.  Special teams ace.  Locker room leader.

 

I think a sneaky attribute from him that we might be able to use is his pass rushing ability.  He had a bunch of sacks one season.  He can come off the edge like a ball of fire.  He doesn't have major pass rushing moves but I think he can be sneaky good in blitizes, double A, off the edge, etc. 

 

Arguably we don't really have a LB right now that's a great blitzer who can get to the passer.  Part of the reason why I was a big Patrick Queen guy is I liked his blitzing ability.  Hudson to me on that front has some Patrick Queen in him.   Also he plays with the same type of energy as Queen.  They are impossible not to notice when you are watching their defenses. 

[Anselmheifer]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep.  Assume you mean Kyle Smith.   Some shades here of McLaurin.  Special teams ace.  Locker room leader.

 

 

Ugh. I must be tired. Yes, Kyle Smith! Thanks! We are in agreement about Khaleke Hudson. 

Also, Matt Judon is getting franchised for 16.8 million dollars. In 4 years, he posted 4, 8, 7, and 9.5 sacks. I think we can expect Sweat to be a lot better than that. It's going to be really expensive to keep this DL group together. We might need to look at moving some of the pieces for picks, similar to the Deforest Buckner trade. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Full interview.

 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

According to Rivera, Ryan Anderson is homeless, in a football sense.

 

 

[OVCChairman]

17 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

According to Rivera, Ryan Anderson is homeless, in a football sense.

 

 

 

 

I'm really confused... why would we feel the need to move on?   Am i missing something?  Is there some clear cut starter ahead of him that deems him expendable?  Is he valuable enough to justify trading away a viable player at OLB?  Maybe i'm valuing him incorrectly. 

[Vanguard]

I hope we keep Ryan Anderson, he’s our best backer imo.

[Voice_of_Reason]

33 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I'm really confused... why would we feel the need to move on?   Am i missing something?  Is there some clear cut starter ahead of him that deems him expendable?  Is he valuable enough to justify trading away a viable player at OLB?  Maybe i'm valuing him incorrectly. 

It's more there isn't a defined position for him.  He could theoretically play DE or any of the 3 LB spots. He clearly can't play DT or in the secondary.  

 

- If they try and put him at DE, he'll never see the field behind Young, Sweat and Kerrigan.  So that doesn't seem like an ideal fit.

- "Mike" or Middle LB needs to be rangy, call the defenses, be able to plug holes in the running game and cover RBs and TEs and at times inside receivers down the field in a cover 2 look.  That isn't Anderson. He struggles in coverage, and is best moving forward, not backwards.  

- "Will" or Weak side LB's.  Typically the fastest and most athletic LB.  They're not lined up on the side of the TE, so they don't have to deal with that so much, but they are asked to fill gaps on the run game, and cover receivers in zone on the weak side.  They also need to be able to quickly rally to the ball on the other side of the field.  Anderson doesn't really cover well, though he has some speed.  He's a good fit in the run game, but I don't think he would do well covering receivers.

- "Sam" or Strong side LB.  Lined up on the side of the TE, has responsibility to cover the TE, or get past the TE to make plays in the running game.  Personally, of all the places where I think Anderson fits, there is where I think he fits, but asking him to have primary coverage responsibility on TE seems like a bad idea.

 

What they need is to find a way to allow him to rush the passer and support the run but not be a liability in coverage.  And as a 4-3 LB, that's hard.  

 

He is probably the one guy who really does benefit from the 3-4, where he can be a rush OLB more times than not...

[Anselmheifer]

Voice of reason, that’s exactly how I see Ryan Anderson. He’s a SAM that lacks ideal athleticism for the position. 
 

I think he’s basically just a backup pass rusher. There is some value to that. If anybody misses any games at all, Anderson would see a lot of playing time. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Voice of reason, that’s exactly how I see Ryan Anderson. He’s a SAM that lacks ideal athleticism for the position. 
 

I think he’s basically just a backup pass rusher. There is some value to that. If anybody misses any games at all, Anderson would see a lot of playing time. 

Yeah, the thing is that's a waste.  Because he was probably the most improved player on the defense last year, tries hard, and can provide value.

 

I honestly think Anderson's best fit is somewhere else running a 3-4.  Which is unfortunate. 

 

I never understood the personnel theory the 'Skins have had since they flipped to the 3-4 that they had to find an OLB opposite Kerrigan to provide pass-rush.  I didn't understand it with any of the guys they tried it with, because untill you are always blitzing, one of your OLBs is dropping into coverage.  But they kept trying it, and that's how we ended up with Anderson.  Who I like.  But I just don't know what you do with him.  

 

If he could catch, I actually wonder if he could transition to TE/HBack.  He does ok at FB when they ask him to do that.  

[carex]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, the thing is that's a waste.  Because he was probably the most improved player on the defense last year, tries hard, and can provide value.

 

I honestly think Anderson's best fit is somewhere else running a 3-4.  Which is unfortunate. 

 

I never understood the personnel theory the 'Skins have had since they flipped to the 3-4 that they had to find an OLB opposite Kerrigan to provide pass-rush.  I didn't understand it with any of the guys they tried it with, because untill you are always blitzing, one of your OLBs is dropping into coverage.  But they kept trying it, and that's how we ended up with Anderson.  Who I like.  But I just don't know what you do with him.  

 

If he could catch, I actually wonder if he could transition to TE/HBack.  He does ok at FB when they ask him to do that.  

 

don't forget Kerrigan himself was an example of that, pairing him with Orakpo.

 

I never got it myself.  I'm not the biggest student of the game, but I do remember back when the Giants had LT the biggest threat opposite him was DE Leonard Marshall not OLB Carl Banks

[Malapropismic Depository]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If he could catch, I actually wonder if he could transition to TE/HBack.  He does ok at FB when they ask him to do that.  

 

Darrel Young actually started out as a LB in college, and the Skins switched him to FB. He was also undrafted, and turned out pretty well.

Also, I think Anderson has played a FB role with the Skins already, in Goal-Line situations. Unless I'm thinking of someone else, like Payne. I'm pretty sure it was Anderson, while Payne did it in college.

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

This defense could really use a Fabian Moreau breakout. 

[mistertim]

To me, SAM is really the only place where Anderson fits. He doesn't have the sideline to sideline capability that you want in a MIKE, and he doesn't have the athleticism and speed that a WILL needs. He's big, strong, and good at setting the edge which is what you want in your SAM...he can also rush the passer pretty well in some situations which is an added bonus for that LB position.

 

The coverage thing worries me, because Anderson simply hasn't shown himself to be any good there...too stiff and slow. Against good TEs he'd get absolutely burnt in coverage so I'm guessing if he's in during a passing situation against a team that has a top tier TE, the coverage responsibilities for that TE will likely shift. Then again, in a nickle or dime package he'd probably be replaced unless they're using him to blitz and rolling a safety over a bit to cover the TE.

[steve09ru]

Honestly, I'd rather see us move on from Kerrigan (as much as I like him) and just go with Anderson.   Much cheaper and on the opposite side of his career with his best years ahead

[Malapropismic Depository]

Nice legs

 

 

[Dragon13]

I love the front 4 but the linebackers are shaky to me, they just gotta prove themselves. Its their chance to show everyone they're NFL material

 

Cornerbacks are under appreciated, with Fuller, Darby, and Moreau we have a good group.

 

Collins is still an All-Pro talent at safety, the upside is there for us

[HTTRDynasty]