Darrell Green Fan Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mistertim said: I'm in the RR school of thought on this. Trading down from a top 5 / top 10 pick is ok if you truly think you will be able to get a guy of the same value and caliber with the new pick as you would with the original pick. Going from 6 to 27...there's just no way that qualifies Nobody is claiming you will get the guy rated the same at 6 that you get at 27. Again it's the collection of picks that gives you more bites at the apple is what teams try to accomplish with a trade back. For the record I'm with you and don't want them to trade out of the Chase pick, you don't pass on a player like that. But if we were picking 6 I'm pretty sure many fans would be fine with a trade back for a team with this many needs. Edited April 23, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysaskin Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Warhead36 said: Trading down is the most overrated thing ever. I've seen us trade down enough times and screw it up every single time to never want to do it again. I still have flashbacks to the old standby of “he would have gone much higher, but this horrific injury caused him to drop.” Then Brucifer wondered why we had so many players on IR every year. When has a trade back ever worked for this team? Yes I like Kerrigan but Watt is a first ballot hall of famer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, alwaysaskin said: I still have flashbacks to the old standby of “he would have gone much higher, but this horrific injury caused him to drop.” Then Brucifer wondered why we had so many players on IR every year. When has a trade back ever worked for this team? Yes I like Kerrigan but Watt is a first ballot hall of famer. My personal favorite was when we traded out of the 1st round entirely in 2008 to get extra 2nd round picks and then selected future HoFers Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, and Malcolm Kelly with guys like Jordy Nelson, DeSean Jackson, and Calais Campbell still on the board. Edited April 23, 2020 by mistertim 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) Lot of hindsight in these posts. Jordy benefitted from Aaron rodgers. Many people didn't think djax would make it in the NFL due to his size. No one saw what jj watt could become. I am just fine with chase young but I wouldn't have an issue with lamb juedy or isaiah Simmons plus a few other picks. I think those 3 are blue chip material. Chase young looks like a can't miss prospect but that really doesn't exist in the nfl. And I don't think chase young is far enough ahead of the guys I mentioned to ignore a potential trade down that would land you a slew of picks in addition to a blue chip prospect. Remember, if haskins busts, it won't matter much if chase young can singlehandedly win a game or 2 a year. Edited April 23, 2020 by sportjunkie07 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftech Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: I would rather they try and steal the OSU DL coach. Seems like he's freaking amazing! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, arftech said: I would rather they try and steal the OSU DL coach. Seems like he's freaking amazing! Oh, there are plenty of NFL teams that have tried to pry Johnson away from OSU. He's reportedly been very consistent in saying that he's not interested and enjoys where he's at and working with college guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, mistertim said: Yeah the only other recent huge leap like that I can think of is Atlanta for Julio. And holy **** did they fleece the Browns there. All Cleveland got was an extra second and fourth rounder that draft, a first and fourth in the next draft. And they parlayed those picks into the powerhouse of Phil Taylor (after giving up a 3rd to move up to 21), Greg Little, and Owen Marecic in 2011, and in 2012 Brandon Weeden, and used the 4th they got from Atlanta as part of a trade to move up from 4 to 3 and take Trent Richardson. I remember this trade and being kinda shocked at how much Atlanta gave up. It didn't matter though because Atlanta picked the right player and the Browns didn't not. I actually see some similarities between that wr draft and this one on the top end. Aj green and Julio were considered to be some of the better wr prospects in a while and I think the same is happening in this draft with lamb and juedy. They will be off the board early. Edited April 23, 2020 by sportjunkie07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, mistertim said: My personal favorite was when we traded out of the 1st round entirely in 2008 to get extra 2nd round picks and then selected future HoFers Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, and Malcolm Kelly with guys like Jordy Nelson, DeSean Jackson, and Calais Campbell still on the board. I remember how maddening it was, because that part of the 2nd round went -- Fred Davis then DeSean Jackson, then Calais Campbell, and then Malcolm Kelly! I recall complaining on ES about the Skins passing on Calais Campbell, but was told the Skins had some coach on staff who would have been familiar with Calais, so it was wise to pass on him and instead "snap up" Davis who supposedly wouldn't have dropped to where we picked Kelly. I also hated the Devin Thomas pick, because I thought he was just the product of last-minute, pre-draft hype. Sadly, the Skins FO bought into the hype. One should only trade back, if one's scouting is decent enough to find bona fide "hidden talent", or truly high quality talent that has slid for some odd reason. It's only in recent years, that I've seen an improvement in what I regarded as serious weak-points for the Skins, namely their scouting and talent acquisition teams. Edited April 23, 2020 by Wyvern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said: I remember this trade and being kinda shocked at how much Atlanta gave up. It didn't matter though because Atlanta picked the right player and the Browns didn't not. I actually see some similarities between that wr draft and this one on the top end. Aj green and Julio were considered to be some of the better wr prospects in a while and I think the same is happening in this draft with lamb and juedy. They will be off the board early. Personally, I don't think Lamb or Jeudy are anywhere close to the prospect that Julio was. Lamb has the hands and the YAC ability but he isn't the athlete or the route runner that Julio was. Jeudy has the route running but has had problems with drops and also isn't the athlete that Julio was. Jeudy also played almost exclusively in the slot in college. Generally if you're picking a WR in the top 10 you want a guy who has demonstrated that he can line up as an X and beat press coverage consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, mistertim said: Personally, I don't think Lamb or Jeudy are anywhere close to the prospect that Julio was. Lamb has the hands and the YAC ability but he isn't the athlete or the route runner that Julio was. Jeudy has the route running but has had problems with drops and also isn't the athlete that Julio was. Jeudy also played almost exclusively in the slot in college. Generally if you're picking a WR in the top 10 you want a guy who has demonstrated that he can line up as an X and beat press coverage consistently. Fair enough. Very rarely are reciever prsopects perfect. Julio was the second wide receiver picked in his class. What I look for is do they have enough special traits and are any negative traits enough to cause them to bust. With respect to your analysis, I don't think any perceived negative traits will outweigh the unique and elite traits that both of these guys have. To me they are special, just like I felt aj green and Julio were special. IMO bad qb play or freak injury are the biggest potential hurdles. this wr draft (not just lamb and juedy) will absolutely dominate the wide receiver ranks of the nfl in short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaction2Sanders Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) We have so many other needs on this team, you want to draft a kid to fill a need we don't even NEED? 46 sacks in '19 and '18. Only 4 less than the '91 defense, most sacks since the '00 defense. Getting to the QB was the only thing our franchise worse defense could do last year.. What are we gonna do when opposing defenses roll their coverage's and shut down T.Mac this season and Haskins has no one else to throw it too??? O wait he'll be on his back since we have no Oline to protect him. No TE depth, no 3rd down back, no shutdown CB, no FS. If you think we can fix this team with C.Young and a bunch of back end day 2 and day 3 players, with all our problems. You're nutz... The last thing I want to be is the Bears with Khalil Mack getting paid on a decent defense that's being wasted because your offense blows and have no draft picks to fix it fast enough. How many times have see seen this in the NFL?? Edited April 23, 2020 by Playaction2Sanders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Playaction2Sanders said: We have so many other needs on this team, you want to draft a kid to fill a need we don't even NEED? 46 sacks in '19 and '18. Only 4 less than the '91 defense. Getting to the QB was the only thing our franchise worse defense could do last year.. What are we gonna do when opposing defenses roll their coverage's and shut down T.Mac this season and Haskins has no one else to throw it too??? O wait he'll be on his back since we have no Oline to protect him. No TE depth, no 3rd down back, no shutdown CB, no FS. If you think we can fix this team with C.Young and a bunch of back end day 2 and day 3 players, with all our problems. You're nutz... I can't vouch for this site's legitimacy but I think this is the forum you were looking for: https://www.reddit.com/r/badideas/ 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaction2Sanders Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: I can't vouch for this site's legitimacy but I think this is the forum you were looking for: https://www.reddit.com/r/badideas/ Look if you can trade back AND get C.Young no one would argue with that.. But I think your https://www.reddit.com/r/badideas/ would also apply if you think this team doesn't have huge holes you can fix it with a bunch of day 3 draft picks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Playaction2Sanders said: Look if you can trade back AND get C.Young no one would argue with that.. But I think your https://www.reddit.com/r/badideas/ would also apply if you think this team doesn't have huge holes you can fix it with a bunch of day 3 draft picks.. Cool. It's not gonna get fixed in one offseason either way and the amount of value it would take to pass on a stud like Young isn't gonna happen man. We all love the draft here, we're obsessed with it. If anyone wants more picks it's this forum. At the expense of the kind of stud we always have to watch other teams get, and rarely ever us? Nah. Not without monstrous compensation. The hit rate on picks after trading down just isn't high enough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Somebody posted a tweet about all the players who have played for both del rio and Rivera and I cant find it. Does anybody know where that list is and could possibly repost it, I'd be very appreciative if they could. I wanted to show a friend of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Playaction2Sanders said: Look if you can trade back AND get C.Young no one would argue with that.. But I think your https://www.reddit.com/r/badideas/ would also apply if you think this team doesn't have huge holes you can fix it with a bunch of day 3 draft picks.. And that is the point. We may not be world beaters to begin with but i actually like how our defense would look with Chase Young. It would really round it out. The biggest question right now on the D is at LB and FS IMO. Getting consistent pressure upfront helps takes some pressure off the secondary. I think just having decent coaches is a big plus. I would just not want to pass on Chase Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 hours ago, sportjunkie07 said: Remember, if haskins busts, it won't matter much if chase young can singlehandedly win a game or 2 a year. This is a ridiculous statement. If you have a DE who can singlehandedly win a game or two a year, if your young QB busts you draft another one. I'm not sure what you were trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, mistertim said: Generally if you're picking a WR in the top 10 you want a guy who has demonstrated that he can line up as an X and beat press coverage consistently. I agree, a top ten wr needs to be an uncoverable beast who works hard and is smart as well, similar to a top ten RB needs to be an unstoppable weapon. Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones - those are top ten WR in my world. @Skinsinparadise Sounds like one more notch in the "knows what it takes to succeed" column for chase young if you ask me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Good that Young is already aware and prepared for the snakes that come out of the woodwork when you stick around your hometown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaction2Sanders Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said: And that is the point. We may not be world beaters to begin with but i actually like how our defense would look with Chase Young. It would really round it out. The biggest question right now on the D is at LB and FS IMO. Getting consistent pressure upfront helps takes some pressure off the secondary. I think just having decent coaches is a big plus. I would just not want to pass on Chase Young. Really. Explain to me the '04 defense that didn't have a single guy with more than 6 sacks yet was 4th is points allowed (265 points in contrast the '91 team gave up 224 less than a FG per game more) despite having an offense that was just as bad as the '19's offense if not worse.. And to go on your point about getting to the QB helping the secondary then how bad was our secondary then if we had just 4 LESS sacks than the '91 team and yet we gave up 28 almost 30 points a game???? Does that not support that we need more help than just in an area we're already good at??? How bout scheme and coaching and overall team play instead of relying on a couple of players.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, Playaction2Sanders said: Look if you can trade back AND get C.Young no one would argue with that.. But I think your https://www.reddit.com/r/badideas/ would also apply if you think this team doesn't have huge holes you can fix it with a bunch of day 3 draft picks.. Drafting for need is how you tend end up with lots of decent players and no standouts...aka the Redskins for a long time now. Every once in a while a positional need and an elite once in a decade talent combine, but sometimes they don't. And when they don't, you take the elite prospect. That's what the 49ers did. DE wasn't a need for them...they'd invested a ton in their DL already. But they took Bosa because he was an elite difference maker. I don't think they're sorry about it. Take the potential perennial All-Pro and then continue to build. Nobody is expecting this team to be finished building in one draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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