Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Malapropismic Depository]

On 8/11/2020 at 10:35 AM, Anselmheifer said:

 

 Now they will have a more seasoned Montez Sweat

 

Maybe that slow start last year was due to him doing the Old Spice commercials

[Califan007 The Constipated]

[Silvernon]

On 8/12/2020 at 4:56 PM, mistertim said:

That's an odd statement on Allen. He's not at all a 2 gap space eater. In college, being a penetrating 3 tech was his specialty and that's where he's looked best in the NFL. He can split double teams but that's different than being a "space eater". I do agree that he's very technically proficient at stacking and shedding while keeping his eyes on the ball and then throwing off a blocker. But again, that's a different thing than being a pure 2 gap space eater.

I hear you on this point, and yet I am struggling to see Allen as a long-term piece aside from the leadership.  Keeping him st 3 tech over someone more athletic like Payne is likely a mistake. 

 

No issue with Ioannidis and Settle on the nose.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Silvernon

[Going Commando]

On 8/12/2020 at 4:56 PM, mistertim said:

That's an odd statement on Allen. He's not at all a 2 gap space eater. In college, being a penetrating 3 tech was his specialty and that's where he's looked best in the NFL. He can split double teams but that's different than being a "space eater". I do agree that he's very technically proficient at stacking and shedding while keeping his eyes on the ball and then throwing off a blocker. But again, that's a different thing than being a pure 2 gap space eater.

 

Two gapping doesn't necessarily mean playing as an A gap front side run defender.  Allen can two gap from multiple alignments, including as a back side run defender.  One of the things he went back to demonstrate his senior year (when he won every major defensive award in the country) was that he wasn't just a penetrating IDL pass rush specialist, but also a high end run defender.  I'd have complete confidence in him if they ask him two cover his B and C gap.

 

That NFL insider is selling him short as a pass rusher though.  He is a very skilled rusher and has double digit sack potential.  His first three seasons don't look all that different from Calais Campbell's, and he has the potential to play a similar role for a defense.

[Riggo#44]

I need to stop reading this thread--now I'm all geeked up about our d-line again. I don't want to be geeked up--that leads to that oh-so-familiar crushing disappointment. But ****, it's hard not to love Young-Allen-Payne-Sweat, with Ionnaidis, Settle, Kerrigan making ridiculous depth.

[Anselmheifer]

A little Chase Young porn. So ridiculous. I watched Montez Sweat highlights earlier today. There is a night and day difference between them. 

[Koolblue13]

It is insane how hard he bends an edge. Hes on rails around the tackle.

[Riggo#44]

46 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

A little Chase Young porn. So ridiculous. I watched Montez Sweat highlights earlier today. There is a night and day difference between them

That first clip, he was around the corner by the time the tackle got out of his stance.

[wit33]

Him always looking for the strip sack is special. It’s those special guys that can make the good play while looking to create the elite play simultaneously. 
 

The strip sack is the closest rival to an elite QB!!!! 
 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I posted this on another thread, I add something about Chase here.  

 

We've been debating the topic some here as for young talent.  ESPN ranked as #11, pretty good.  It's by the Football Outsiders guys using their anayltics. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29602474/ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-their-25-talent-2020

 

Here's their top 10.

 

1.  Raven

2.  NY Giants

3.  Cardinals

4. Bills

5. 49ers

6. Steelers

7.  Jags

8.  Browns

9. Texans

10.  Chiefs

 

...This year's second overall pick Chase Young? He is a star -- SackSEER projects him to lead the class by more than seven sacks over the next five seasons -- and his addition to an already talented young pass rush should tip the scales of a pass defense whose bottom-10 efficiency from 2019 does not match their current talent. Meanwhile, linebacker Cole Holcomb's excellent 14.7% rookie broken tackle rate could foreshadow a lesser but still critical improvement to the team's similarly ranked run defense, especially with experienced defensive minds in Ron Rivera and Jack Del Rio at the helm.

Defense likely won't be the team's problem in 2020. Football Outsiders projects the team to have a very poor offense this season,

[Anselmheifer]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I posted this on another thread, I add something about Chase here.  

 

We've been debating the topic some here as for young talent.  ESPN ranked as #11, pretty good.  It's by the Football Outsiders guys using their anayltics. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29602474/ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-their-25-talent-2020

 

Here's their top 10.

 

1.  Raven

2.  NY Giants

3.  Cardinals

4. Bills

5. 49ers

6. Steelers

7.  Jags

8.  Browns

9. Texans

10.  Chiefs

 

...This year's second overall pick Chase Young? He is a star -- SackSEER projects him to lead the class by more than seven sacks over the next five seasons -- and his addition to an already talented young pass rush should tip the scales of a pass defense whose bottom-10 efficiency from 2019 does not match their current talent. Meanwhile, linebacker Cole Holcomb's excellent 14.7% rookie broken tackle rate could foreshadow a lesser but still critical improvement to the team's similarly ranked run defense, especially with experienced defensive minds in Ron Rivera and Jack Del Rio at the helm.

Defense likely won't be the team's problem in 2020. Football Outsiders projects the team to have a very poor offense this season,

Giants are #2 on that list? I don’t think so. Daniel Jones remains over rated. Barkley is awesome. Will Hernandez, Matt Peart, Andrew Thomas, Xavier McKinney. Who am I missing that should make them so good? Engram? 
 

Give me Haskins, McLaurin, Sims, Charles, Love, Gibson, Sweat, Payne, Allen, Chase Young, SDH, Cole Holcomb, and Fuller. Any day of the week. 
 

If Haskins hits, this team is going to suddenly look stacked. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Giants are #2 on that list? I don’t think so. Daniel Jones remains over rated. Barkley is awesome. Will Hernandez, Matt Peart, Andrew Thomas, Xavier McKinney. Who am I missing that should make them so good? Engram? 
 

 

Dexter Lawrence, Tomlinson were great run stoppers. they were who we thought Allen and Payne would be as run stuffers.  They actually (unlike us) have a DT that can stuff the run and an overall defense unit that is good at stopping the run.  I think that will finally change on our front.   Those 2 DTS and BJ Hill from what I recall were all ranked higher from than any of our DTs via PFF.  Some think Lawrence will emerge as a star.  I personally like our DTs more than theirs but i think a lot of Redskins fans sleep on the fact that they also have 3 young really good DTs.  BJ Hill was one of my favorites before the draft.  When I watched some of the Giant-Redskins game back, I noted on a thread that Tomlinson was a beast against our run game. 

 

Darius Slayton was a good young receiver last year.  Shepard is still young.  Engram by a mile is a better threat as a TE than anyone we got.   I've made this point on another thread.  IMO they got a young O line that I am envious of.  It's not great but they got more young talent on their O line than we have on ours IMO.  Better O line.  Better at TE.  Better at RB.  Better at WR.  Those are a lot of units to be better at.  Granted it's my opinion.  But clearly I am not alone on it.  I do like the potential of some of our young receivers, etc, but they gotta do it before being anointed.  I was one of the big Antonio Gibson guys on the draft thread yet still the dude has to do it first.

 

 I know a lot of Redskins fans and a lot of Giants fans.  It's weird how fans of both teams think the other team is yawn and they are the team that is young and emerging and the other team is not.  

 

I make the same point to my Giant friends-family -- they are sleeping on the Redskins.  Same thing I say to some Redskins fans, the Giants are no joke, they are also building a young nucleus.  Like us, they have some holes.  But they are methodically working it.  I don't think it's some wild coincidence they routed us in a game last year and the season before.    And have done very well against us head to head for years now. 

 

Gettleman because of his buffoonish statements comes off like a joke.  But if you think about the three things he gets killed for the most.  1.  the Beckham trade.  2.  Not giving Josh Norman the big contract he wanted.  3.  Ditto Landon Collins.   He doesn't look that foolish in retrospect.  The Giants drafts have quietly been sneaky good IMO. 

 

Do I think the Giants are going to be good this year?  Nope.  Do I think they can make the argument that they are a young team on the rise.  Yeah IMO they can make it just as easily as we can.   They have to shore up their pass rush and secondary primarily.  We got the better pass rush.  They arguably have the better passing weapons, run game and O line.

 

As for the Daniel Jones-Haskins stuff.  On that front, I am on team Haskins.  But that isn't the consensus of NFL pundit types.  To them, that is a battle that needs to be played out with some thinking Jones is better, some thinking Haskins.  So I'd gather the perception from the football outsiders who used anyaltics to rank the teams is QB doesn't favor either team yet. 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Give me Haskins, McLaurin, Sims, Charles, Love, Gibson, Sweat, Payne, Allen, Chase Young, SDH, Cole Holcomb, and Fuller. Any day of the week. 
 

If Haskins hits, this team is going to suddenly look stacked. 

 

I think we have a nice nucleus of young talent.  But IMO we have the same problem the Giants do.  Where we are weak we are very weak or potentially very weak.  I think we need one more off season to be a threat.   

 

We got nothing at TE.  The secondary could be potentially the worst in the NFL.  The left side of the O line is a wildcard. The Y receiver spot is an unknown.  And as usual we have a lot of open questions about whether certain previously injured players emerge this season.  In the past, I'd lean on optimism and would say hey of course Bryce Love will regain his form and be electric, etc.  But I've learned to be cautious on that stuff.  Will see.  Got my fingers crossed. 

 

The Giants issues IMO is their pass rush and like us their secondary. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

If Haskins hits, this team is going to suddenly look stacked. 

 

Stacked? Stacked! Dude! If Haskins hits, not only would you have your QB1 WR1 and Bookend Edge rushers, you would have them all on rookie deals. You would be a LT away from having your premium money positions covered.

 

If Haskins hits the surrounding roster quality will be so high (due to available funds) that this team will be a contender by Rivera yr 2.

This Roster from a financial availability standpoint is potentially outstanding.

 

Zombie might even be able to afford a new pair of shoes. I’m tired of dragging around barefoot.

[Riggo#44]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know a lot of Redskins fans and a lot of Giants fans.  It's weird how fans of both teams think the other team is yawn and they are the team that is young and emerging and the other team is not. 

 

Biggest differentiator? Coaching. Who would you rather have Joe Judge, Jason Garrett, and Patrick Graham or Ron Rivera, Scott Turner, and Jack Del Rio. With such a young staff, who would you prefer?

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Biggest differentiator? Coaching. Who would you rather have Joe Judge, Jason Garrett, and Patrick Graham or Ron Rivera, Scott Turner, and Jack Del Rio. With such a young staff, who would you prefer?

I don’t think that’s the biggest differentiator, although our coaches, JDR and Rivera, seem ideal to maximize the talent on the defensive side of the ball. I’m super happy Chase Young will be coached by the guy that got career years out of Von Miller and Khalil Mack. 
 

I do think the biggest differentiator will be which QB winds up being better. Odds are, they won’t both pan out 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Anselmheifer

[PartyPosse]

21 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Biggest differentiator? Coaching. Who would you rather have Joe Judge, Jason Garrett, and Patrick Graham or Ron Rivera, Scott Turner, and Jack Del Rio. With such a young staff, who would you prefer?

I disagree. I think both coaching staffs are fine. The biggest differentiator is there is a specific direction difference. In that I mean the redskins are looking to focus on one particular aspect as the core of this team. That DL is above and beyond the strength of this team and will be so for yeRS. Giants just seem to be drafting guys all over and even know can you tell what their focal point is? They have average talent scattered around the team but outside of Barkley, there isn’t really a main focus on either side of the ball that they probably feel can dominate a game.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

36 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I disagree. I think both coaching staffs are fine. The biggest differentiator is there is a specific direction difference. In that I mean the redskins are looking to focus on one particular aspect as the core of this team. That DL is above and beyond the strength of this team and will be so for yeRS. Giants just seem to be drafting guys all over and even know can you tell what their focal point is? They have average talent scattered around the team but outside of Barkley, there isn’t really a main focus on either side of the ball that they probably feel can dominate a game.

 

That's an interesting point.  I don't think they have anything where they've really tried to stockpile talent and overpower as a position group.

 

They've added some pieces to the defense recently, draft, free agency, trades, etc.  All of those guys are best against the run instead of the pass.  I'm surprised to see from FootballOutsiders that they were ranked 7th last season in run defense.  That said they were abysmal against the pass.  They franchised Leonard Williams and gave Blake Martinez 10 million a year.  Both of them are better against the run than the pass.  They drafted a safety in the 2nd round, who is probably going to be better against the run than the pass, as while he's versatile in assignments, he is a little athletically limited.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Biggest differentiator? Coaching. Who would you rather have Joe Judge, Jason Garrett, and Patrick Graham or Ron Rivera, Scott Turner, and Jack Del Rio. With such a young staff, who would you prefer?

 

I like our coaching over theirs.  I was pushing hard for Rivera before we got him.  So I am a big fan.  I've heard many NFL pundits talking about hearing great things about Judge -- mentored by Saban and Belichick, etc.  Supposedly, he's a good leader, charismatic dude, disciplined and smart.  But, you got me about Judge.  It's like any new hire, no way to know until the movie plays out.  I like Scott Turner's potential but the dude hasn't established himself, yet.   So I think we are putting the cart before the horse with him. 

 

The point though was more about young talent.  I actually along with @stevemcqueen1 on the Haskins thread put forward the idea that the Giants' young talent is underestimated by some of our fan base.   The Football Outsiders guy in essence just doubled down on the same point we made using their anyaltics. 

 

No way to know who is right or wrong.  I hope I am wrong about the Giants talent.  But where I live in Florida there are a lot of NY transplants.  I know more Giant and Jet fans locally than any other team's fans.  And I find it ironic how many of them see the Giants as the young up and coming emerging team in the NFC East and don't see the Redskins deserving of the same conversation on that front.  And conversely, some Redskins fans see the Giants the same way like the Giants are the fumbling losers and we are the team building a future.  LOL, either both teams emerge as the next force in the NFC East or some fans (at least in my circle) will ultimately be wrong as to their current opinion. 

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

I disagree. I think both coaching staffs are fine. The biggest differentiator is there is a specific direction difference. In that I mean the redskins are looking to focus on one particular aspect as the core of this team. That DL is above and beyond the strength of this team and will be so for yeRS. Giants just seem to be drafting guys all over and even know can you tell what their focal point is? They have average talent scattered around the team but outside of Barkley, there isn’t really a main focus on either side of the ball that they probably feel can dominate a game.

 

@stevemcqueen1 I think articulated it well on the Haskins thread.  The Giants are building an identity of physicality.  They drafted Barkley and have stockpiled O line talent.  They got some beasts on their interior D line.  They have been working both spots hard.   Just like us, they've drafted their DTs in recent years.  Unlike us, they can actually stop the run.   Run the ball and stuff the run.   Old school.  To complete their D line, they basically need a pass rusher on the other side of Golden, they've drafted some but guys like Carter haven't emerged.    Part of the reason why I was paranoid about Chase going to the Giants (there was a phase where the Giants seemed headed to getting the #2 pick) was I thought he was the perfect complement to what they were building.  Thankfully, he ended up here. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

56 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I disagree. I think both coaching staffs are fine. The biggest differentiator is there is a specific direction difference. In that I mean the redskins are looking to focus on one particular aspect as the core of this team. That DL is above and beyond the strength of this team and will be so for yeRS. Giants just seem to be drafting guys all over and even know can you tell what their focal point is? They have average talent scattered around the team but outside of Barkley, there isn’t really a main focus on either side of the ball that they probably feel can dominate a game.

 

I don't think we specifically set out to target the D-line, the draft fell that way--we did not target Jonathan Allen, he was supposed to be a top-5-ish pick that year. We probably should have picked James over Payne, but hind sight is 20-20--and I think Payne is going to blow up this year. Young was the best talent and Sweat was some kind of weird appeasement thing after taking Haskins. But I digress.

 

I don't think anyone was hot on Joe Judge, were they? Plus, how many successful Belicheck proteges are there? Graham had 1 year experience as a DC with Miami last year. They weren't good. We'll see, you need good players to be a good coach, but good coaches get the best out of good players (see, Manusky, Greg for the antithesis of that). We'll see that in several places this year--primarily in the Brady-Bellicheck divorce.

 

 

[redskindan07]

I've halfway expected to come on here and read about how overrated Young is due to the lack of training camp footage available thus far. Seems about par for us on ES

[Riggo#44]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

No way to know who is right or wrong.  I hope I am wrong about the Giants talent.  But where I live in Florida there are a lot of NY transplants.  I know more Giant and Jet fans locally than any other team's fans.  And I find it ironic how many of them see the Giants as the young up and coming emerging team in the NFC East and don't see the Redskins deserving of the same conversation on that front.  And conversely, some Redskins fans see the Giants the same way like the Giants are the fumbling losers and we are the team building a future.  LOL, either both teams emerge as the next force in the NFC East or some fans (at least in my circle) will ultimately be wrong as to their current opinion.

 

Because Giants fans are idiots, by and large? (A lot of them are Mets fans as well, so their mental capacity is severely limited...)

 

Personally, I want to be ignored, I want to be underrated and poo-pooed. Talk about us after the season, rather than before it. I just want to be the crap out of the Giants more than any other team

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

They drafted a safety in the 2nd round, who is probably going to be better against the run than the pass, as while he's versatile in assignments, he is a little athletically limited.

 

I agree with your point about Leonard Williams and their defense being better generally against the run versus the pass.  I disagree on McKinney though.

 

I talked about Mckinney on the draft thread.  Thought it was weird that some (not all) draft geeks pegged him as a run stuffer versus playing the pass.  When I watched him, it was 100% the reverse.  He played like a corner.   Really good against the pass.  I was at the Alabama-Michigan game live.  Michigan's offense was atrocious so I got bored watching them so just basically watched Alabama's defense and spent the most time watching McKinney.  To my eyes, he played FS like he was a corner -- both good and bad.  The good was he draped their receivers in coverage.  The bad was he was steamrolled on some run plays.   The dude is only 200 pounds and it shows.   He can play in the box.  Play slot, too.  But I like him best in coverage.  I know some draft geeks agree with me and some don't.  Should be interesting with him. 

9 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Because Giants fans are idiots, by and large? (A lot of them are Mets fans as well, so their mental capacity is severely limited...)

 

Personally, I want to be ignored, I want to be underrated and poo-pooed. Talk about us after the season, rather than before it. I just want to be the crap out of the Giants more than any other team

 

I am with you on all those fronts.  I hate the Mets, too but am gathering for different reasons than most here. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I talked about Mckinney on the draft thread.  Thought it was weird that some (not all) draft geeks pegged him as a run stuffer versus playing the pass.  When I watched him, it was 100% the reverse.  He played like a corner.   Really good against the pass.  I was at the Alabama-Michigan game live.  Michigan's offense was atrocious so I got bored watching them so just basically watched Alabama's defense and spent the most time watching McKinney.  To my eyes, he played FS like he was a corner -- both good and bad.  The good was he draped their receivers in coverage.  The bad was he was steamrolled on some run plays.   The dude is only 200 pounds and it shows.   He can play in the box.  Play slot, too.  But I like him best in coverage.  I know some draft geeks agree with me and some don't.  Should be interesting with him. 

 

Can't quite remember my total thoughts on McKinney pre-draft.  He played kind of like Malcolm Jenkins and Antrelle Rolle, moved around, Nickel, Safety, came into the box for a variety of roles.  Flash blitz and drop all the way to robber.  But mostly I saw him being around plays, yet unable to actually close distance to make a play.  He seemed like an ideal clean-up guy.  Around the action.  I don't think he's ever going to be one of the best safeties in the league, but I think he's a pretty good Day 2 pick.  You don't need a high ceiling to be a Day 2 pick, but he's got a higher likelihood of reaching his lower ceiling.  I don't think he needs to be a great 1-on-1 tackler to have a positive impact against the run.  If he can follow the action, and continue to be assignment diverse, he'll let other players who are better than him against the run in that formation or package, be in spots that benefit them more.

 

But I think he's a little scheme limited in coverage.  You want him moving around frequently with his assignments, you don't want him being Single High.  So Cover 1/3 is harder to do without really good corners.  They got Bradberry who fits that, but that's only on one side.  I think Cover 2/4 being the base coverage for that defense fits what McKinney can't do better.

 

Gotta be honest, I only saw like 2 games focusing on McKinney, thought he would not pair well with Landon Collins, so stopped watching him as he was off my radar.

 

 

[Vanguard]

I haven’t noticed much junk talking from Giants fans or Cowboy fans.  I think we have the factor of being an unknown going for us.  It’s smart to keep quiet.  We don’t know yet how good Chase will be, he has a high ceiling, same goes for Haskins.  A lot of potential on this team, were young.