Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for Ryan Anderson.    I am sort of in between the debating points here.  I don't think he's been a bust.  I don't think he's been great.  Just having a good (not great) run stuffing DE to me doesn't justify his draft status.   IMO you need some pass rush from a DE.  Run stuffing (non pass rushing) DEs aren't IMO premium players.  The reason why I was OK with the pick (though had concerns about the red flags (slow, bad agility, short arms) was I thought he can bring some pass rush, too.  He hasn't been much of a pass rusher.   He has been good against the run albeit not elite on that front. 

 

I never bought the transition to LB for Ryan.  You need speed to play LB and arguably long arms too.  He has neither.  So it doesn't surprise me that even with the transition to 4-3 the dude will not be converted to LB.  But I was cool and still am with his other attributes like the toughness.  He's typically good against the run.  It wasn't a great pick in retrospect.  But probably our best 2nd round pick in a long time aside from Preston Smith.   Granted that's me grading on a curve.

 

 

Ryan Anderson is enormously overrated by this forum. In 3 years, he's had 0, 2 and 4 sacks. Trent Murphy's 1st 3 years he had 2.5, 3.5 and 9 sacks. And he went to go on and get a second contract with Buffalo. Murphy was mediocre, but significantly better than Anderson. 

 

Guice, Anderson, Preston Smith, Trent Murphy, and Su'a Cravens are our 2nd round picks going back to 2014. Guice was a head case, but was a better pick than Anderson. At least Guice had potential to be something great. I'd argue that Anderson is our worst 2nd round pick, other than Cravens, since 2014. 

 

Agree about the Alabama guys being disappointments thus far. I think the new scheme should be a lot better for them. I think they would have looked miles better even without Chase Young. Now they will have a more seasoned Montez Sweat, a better LB core, Chase Young, and a much better scheme. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

And waaaay to slow to play as a wide 9. 

 

Yeah I don't see RA as having anywhere near the necessary explosion/speed/agility to play a wide 9 technique. I still think he's best suited as a SAM at the LOS in a 4-3 Under/Over look. He's an ok pass rusher and a decent edge setter / run defender, but I don't want him anywhere out in space. I think he's mostly just a situational guy. I do appreciate that he's tough as nails, plays with a serious mean streak, and gives maximum effort. But at the end of the day that's only going to take a guy so far without the physical traits to go along with it. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Sorry I guess I must have missed it. Which one of our OL is saying this?

[OVCChairman]

4 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Sorry I guess I must have missed it. Which one of our OL is saying this?

 

Reading her thread it was in the midst of reporting on Haskins' presser, so I assume it was him and not an O-lineman. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 minute ago, OVCChairman said:

 

Reading her thread it was in the midst of reporting on Haskins' presser, so I assume it was him and not an O-lineman. 

Ah that makes sense. I haven't had a chance to listen to the Haskins presser yet. This DL has me incredibly excited. 

[OVCChairman]

Just now, Burgundy Yoda said:

Ah that makes sense. I haven't had a chance to listen to the Haskins presser yet. This DL has me incredibly excited. 

 

 

If Haskins can be effective against this D-line, it bodes really well going into the season for not only him, but our O-line.  Unfortunately we dont have the preseason, but practicing against our front 7 is about as good as you can get given the circumstances. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

If Haskins can be effective against this D-line, it bodes really well going into the season for not only him, but our O-line.  Unfortunately we dont have the preseason, but practicing against our front 7 is about as good as you can get given the circumstances. 

Yep, you and I both know most likely Haskins is going to be on the move a lot this season. Until we fortify our OL he's going to have to get used to being uncomfortable back there in training camp. This is good though because hopefully by the time the season starts he'll be used to being on the move often. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Yep, you and I both know most likely Haskins is going to be on the move a lot this season. Until we fortify our OL he's going to have to get used to being uncomfortable back there in training camp. This is good though because hopefully by the time the season starts he'll be used to being on the move often. 

 

 

I just hope the 'on the move' is to build on what he did last year.  I dont see Rivera / Turner turning us into a QB running team, so i'm not worried about that..  What i want to see more of from him is this:

 

 

 

and all of this please... 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/steven-sims-jr-has-career-day-two-touchdown-catches

Edited August 11, 2020 by OVCChairman

[Anselmheifer]

I wish this was a more normal year and we had training camp reports of how Chase and Montez are looking. Video reports. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Ryan Anderson is super small in a 4-3 as a DE though.  Unless you're playing Wide 9 alignment or something.

 

I think the principal behind Anderson as a SAM backer is that we use a lot of 4-3 Under Fronts with him.  So he's still on the LoS and becomes the force/contain player on that side.

 

At least that's my guess.

 

Unless I am remembering it's already been said that Ryan will play DE and not Sam?  but I'll see if I can find where at least thought I heard that.

[Anselmheifer]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

At what point do we stop comparing a player to his draft spot? If Anderson was a 6th, people would be all over him. He was a reach in the second for sure, but he's not an awful player. 

 

Probably when he's not on his rookie contract with the team that drafted him. Or maybe never, if he's a 1st round pick. The point isn't that Anderson sucks. The point is that our draft process was so flawed. And it appears that it's always flawed. There has to be a systemic reason that we tend to hit on solid but unspectacular 1st round picks, miss in the 2nd and then find some later round gems. Are we not weighting traits heavily enough in the 2nd? We tend to grab high floor low ceiling guys in both the 1st and 2nd. That approach hasn't worked for us outside the first round. 

[Anselmheifer]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Unless I am remembering it's already been said that Ryan will play DE and not Sam?  but I'll see if I can find where at least thought I heard that.

 

Our LB coach said that Ryan hasn't been in his room. That means he's been strictly with the DL. I would say that maybe Ryan can be our 3rd DE after Kerrigan's contract expires, but Ryan's also expires and I'm not sure he's worth a 2nd contract. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Our LB coach said that Ryan hasn't been in his room. That means he's been strictly with the DL. I would say that maybe Ryan can be our 3rd DE after Kerrigan's contract expires, but Ryan's also expires and I'm not sure he's worth a 2nd contract. 

 

Some insider type (can't recall whom) if I recall said he heard they are keeping Ryan at DE.  but I can remember who said it. 

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Probably when he's not on his rookie contract with the team that drafted him. Or maybe never, if he's a 1st round pick. The point isn't that Anderson sucks. The point is that our draft process was so flawed. And it appears that it's always flawed. There has to be a systemic reason that we tend to hit on solid but unspectacular 1st round picks, miss in the 2nd and then find some later round gems. Are we not weighting traits heavily enough in the 2nd? We tend to grab high floor low ceiling guys in both the 1st and 2nd. That approach hasn't worked for us outside the first round. 

 

 

This is not directed as you, but more to elaborate on this whole thing

 

 

It's so frustrating that people feel the need to move on a player because they don't live up to their 'draft position.'  That's the whole 'don't cut off your nose to spite your face' saying.  So if we take a guy in the 1st round who happens to end up being a 3rd round talent, do we move on, not only giving up a 1st round pick, but also a 3rd round valued player?  Just because they didn't 'live up' to their draft position?  That's a double negative.  If we over draft a player that's still a contributor, we can't let that blurry the fact that we have a contributor on the team.  

 

Ryan Anderson is a perfect example of that.  He may not be worth a 2nd round pick... but he's also not the 54th rated player on the team either.  Do we move on from him and hold onto a 6th rounder because they're playing 'above' their draft value... but they're not actually better than Anderson? 

 

 

To bring this back together, I think this is a lot more about what you reference regarding a systemic reason that we end up getting talented players, but they're not true game changers.  I think the people making the picks have struggled with evaluating talent to fit the scheme that we're committing to, instead grabbing a player that they think is the most talented, and trying to force fit them into what we want.  Preston Smith and Brian Orakpo are examples of that.  Ryan Kerrigan to an extent is an example of that.  Kerrigan routinely finds himself rushing up field out of position on running plays.   He's a very effective pass rusher, and we want him to rush the passer, but the scheme and coaching often finds him out of position.  

 

Josh Norman was at his best in Carolina when he had an effective pass rush and he would read and react... we paid him a ton of money and put him on an island... not addressing our D-line until Norman had already been labelled a problem.  Meanwhile we draft Bashaud Breeland and let him leave to get paid $880k in GB, then $2m in KC and get a ring while we're paying .  Austin Reiter, won a ring in KC starting a C... a position that we've had in flux for 20 years that a lot of Redskins fans labeled a bust, and a JAG. 

 

Sorry to go off into left field but I feel that this does pertain to Chase Young.  He's the most talented, highest upside player we've drafted since Sean Taylor or Trent Williams.  A couple players like that bring the effectiveness of Anderson, Allen, Payne, and Sweat up a couple levels.  Those guys may ultimately be 'high floor, low ceiling' guys, but when you get elite pieces, everyone's else's ceiling can be lower and still be effective.  I think Rivera and Kyle Smith understand that.  Taking Gibson and AGG show me that.  Those are 2 high upside guys at skill positions... 

[Anselmheifer]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Some insider type (can't recall whom) if I recall said he heard they are keeping Ryan at DE.  but I can remember who said it. 

 

Right. I think that is what it was based on. If he hasn't been running at all with the LB's in training camp, he's a DE. Unless he's just a FB. Ryan Anderson is a poor man's Lorenzo Alexander. Anderson does seem to have a Rivera temperament. Maybe if he's productive he sticks around as our 3rd or 4th edge. Honestly, I'd rather see somebody with more upside. I would love it if Jordan Brailford broke out this year. Taller, longer arms, much more explosive athlete, produced more sacks at the college level. 

[Conn]

I don’t think fan or media perception of whether a player ended up being a good “value” for where he was picked has any effect on whether they are re-signed at a deal in proportion to the value they bring. Or it shouldn’t. Ryan Anderson can be a contributor or depth piece that wasn’t worth the 2nd round pick—that has no effect on whether we sign him to an appropriate extension when the time comes. The players this may effect I guess are 1st rounders who weren’t good enough to warrant picking up their 5th year option, who then break out late.

 

Most people here wanted to hold onto Reiter btw and thought we got cute with him. 

[Anselmheifer]

5 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Ryan Anderson is a perfect example of that.  He may not be worth a 2nd round pick... but he's also not the 54th rated player on the team either.  Do we move on from him and hold onto a 6th rounder because they're playing 'above' their draft value... but they're not actually better than Anderson? 

 

Sorry to go off into left field but I feel that this does pertain to Chase Young.  He's the most talented, highest upside player we've drafted since Sean Taylor or Trent Williams.  A couple players like that bring the effectiveness of Anderson, Allen, Payne, and Sweat up a couple levels.  Those guys may ultimately be 'high floor, low ceiling' guys, but when you get elite pieces, everyone's else's ceiling can be lower and still be effective.  I think Rivera and Kyle Smith understand that.  Taking Gibson and AGG show me that.  Those are 2 high upside guys at skill positions... 

 

I agree with what you are saying. That 2nd is a sunk cost. Ryan is worth keeping or he isn't. I think he is. My complaining might sound like it is about Ryan, but what I am really complaining about is our drafting/team building. I think Ryan has a place on this team, especially in short yardage running situations. I honestly still am not sure I love his as our 3rd DE. I just think we can do better. 

I totally agree about Chase Young. He is a Sean Taylor or Trent Williams caliber athlete. The difference is, he's stepping into a situation much better than those guys. The surrounding talent and the scheme should really allow us to see Chase at his best pretty early. And when people see Chase racking up numbers, AND, our defense performing well, he's going to get a lot of recognition. 

[OVCChairman]

6 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I agree with what you are saying. That 2nd is a sunk cost. Ryan is worth keeping or he isn't. I think he is. My complaining might sound like it is about Ryan, but what I am really complaining about is our drafting/team building. I think Ryan has a place on this team, especially in short yardage running situations. I honestly still am not sure I love his as our 3rd DE. I just think we can do better. 

I totally agree about Chase Young. He is a Sean Taylor or Trent Williams caliber athlete. The difference is, he's stepping into a situation much better than those guys. The surrounding talent and the scheme should really allow us to see Chase at his best pretty early. And when people see Chase racking up numbers, AND, our defense performing well, he's going to get a lot of recognition. 

 

 

Yeah i want Kerrigan as our 3rd De.. not Anderson

[Darth Tater]

4 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Yeah i want Kerrigan as our 3rd De.. not Anderson

Depending on injury and trade ops and assuming we keep 4 at DE, I think the first 3 DEs are as locked in as you can get. Young, Sweat and Kerrigan. The battle is DE4. A DE5 may also have a shot if one impresses.

[OVCChairman]

3 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Depending on injury and trade ops and assuming we keep 4 at DE, I think the first 3 DEs are as locked in as you can get. Young, Sweat and Kerrigan. The battle is DE4. A DE5 may also have a shot if one impresses.

 

 

Ive seen depth charts with Kerrigan at OLB and Anderson at DE.  I know none of them are anything more than speculation so we likely wont know much til week 1.  

[Anselmheifer]

54 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Ive seen depth charts with Kerrigan at OLB and Anderson at DE.  I know none of them are anything more than speculation so we likely wont know much til week 1.  

Kerrigan could probably play SAM in certain Situations. I was hoping Brailford might get a try there too. He bilked up for the combine. His natural playing weight I think was closer to 240 and he was 252 and the combine and still ran a 4.65.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

11 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Guice, Anderson, Preston Smith, Trent Murphy, and Su'a Cravens are our 2nd round picks going back to 2014. Guice was a head case, but was a better pick than Anderson. At least Guice had potential to be something great. I'd argue that Anderson is our worst 2nd round pick, other than Cravens, since 2014.

I'm going to create a thread that covers the complete history of 2nd round picks since Snyder has owned the team. Prepare to vomit.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig asking league sources on some D line players.  first is Payne then Allen and then Chase.  The league source really loves Payne, thinks he was misused.  I hope they are right.  Will see. 

 

 

[mistertim]

That's an odd statement on Allen. He's not at all a 2 gap space eater. In college, being a penetrating 3 tech was his specialty and that's where he's looked best in the NFL. He can split double teams but that's different than being a "space eater". I do agree that he's very technically proficient at stacking and shedding while keeping his eyes on the ball and then throwing off a blocker. But again, that's a different thing than being a pure 2 gap space eater.