Renegade7 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Larry said: I consider Childhood's End to be the best book I've ever read, and don't at all think of it as that. (I am aware that one copy of the book I've owned, contains a foreword from the author, in which he kind of apologizes for the book. Seems that when he wrote it, he believed that things like ESP were the cutting edge of science, and wrote the book accordingly. And now he's ashamed that he fell for that crap.) But me, I think it's a fantastic story, in numerous ways. Including what I think of as numerous big surprises. *winces, groans, and smiles Best ever? Spoiler We werent allowed to leave the solar system, lost our youngest generation, and the remainder of us were left to die? Bro, I felt for those countries that were planning stuff underground because of wanting to decide their own future. Throwing in wouldnt of handled our species breaking off and leaving the rest to die, I'm not sure how exactly that's supposed to be handled properly, and pray nothing like that ever happens. 16 minutes ago, Larry said: Like virtually everything on Star Trek, they intentionally never exactly said. The Prime Directive means whatever it needs to be, for this particular episode. Not arguing against that, jus think that's a better baseline for reaching out the intelligent species, or at least waiting until they are a threat. It's probably billions of times more common for intelligent species to die off for whatever reason before reaching that point, genocide I would hope would be a last resort not a first one. Even Titain AE aliens waited until we could essentially create planets from scratch before saying enough was enough, not worth the risk of seeing there that goes. Edited January 7, 2020 by Renegade7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 29 minutes ago, PeterMP said: There's little reason to think that quantum entanglement can be used for communication (currently). https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2016/04/30/ask-ethan-can-we-use-quantum-entanglement-to-communicate-faster-than-light/#426da214fbcd Key word being "currently": https://www.google.com/search?q=quantum+entanglement+communications&oq=quatum+entange&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l3.10092j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon-sscr&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 Quote Whether they would bother with us or not is irrelevant. The question is would we realize they exist. If an alien civilization decided to do something like build a Dyson's sphere around our sun, they might not bother with us, but we would recognize them. That's such an extreme example, why would they do that? Quote But even if we didn't recognize them at all, the point is that as they did things they would have to do to get type 3, they would leave behind things that we would recognize. As they went through stage 1 and 2 to 3, they would leave behind things that we would recognize. And we don't really even see that. Because we jus started looking and only have the faintest idea of what to look for in a galaxy that is 100,000 lightyears wide. Agree to disagree that we would've seen evidence of a civilization that's too advanced for us to understand what/how they are doing or using same technology as us that's practically useless for communicating between star systems such as radio. We cant find civilizations on same level us us using current technology and cant expect to find something more advanced then us unless they want to be found, we almost have to wait until they come to us until we can reach their level, how ever long that will take. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 What if the hostile alien takeover across the galaxy already happened millions of years ago (basically like space nazis, seizing every artifact, every weapon, every means of communication), and due to all the wealth and overabundance of technology from their campaigns, they collapsed in on themselves and destroyed each other? 🤓 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) By currently, I don't mean we currently don't know how to use for communication, I mean based on what we know there is no reason to believe quantum entaglement will ever be used for communication. Did you look at the links you included? The 1st one is even the one I gave you so that you could read to see the issues with quantum entanglement and communication. The 2nd one directly says they aren't looking quantum entanglement, but are looking at the Zeno effect. To capture all of the energy around our sun, and yes that's an extreme example, but there's good reason to believe we'd recognize other less extreme examples too. If some of the planets in the solar system were actively being mined (whether by large ships with near or faster than light speed ability, travelling "worlds", or by self-replicating nano-machines), that's also something else we'd recognize. Based on what we see and no in the galaxy, there's no real reason to believe any life form has reached stage 3. Edited January 7, 2020 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: That does sound like a high number. But does that factor in updates to Drakes Equation? Even our planet has a habitability window, how many of those 15.4 billion made it to another solar system before theres was destroyed or they destroyed themselves? How many did or didnt destroy other civilizations jus to keep them from being threats? Then how many of those civilizations existed at the same time? Again, there are accepted solutions to the Fermi Paradox. In fact, the Fermi paradox must have some sort of solution. If it is hard to advance from where we are to the point that we really become interstellar travelers (i.e. getting beyond our solar system), then that's a solution to the Fermi Paradox. If it is hard to get from where we are to taking the next steps, then the Fermi paradox has a solution. If there's an ancient civilization that goes around and destroys other less mature civilizations that it considers a threat (then it is hard to get from where we a are to take the next steps to being an interstellar species), then the Fermi paradox has a solution. That if Earth is average and we are likely to continue to advance, then we'd expect to see aliens. We don't so there must be a solution. (And the piece I started with gave a solution. Just not one that I think is particularly good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, PeterMP said: By currently, I don't mean we currently don't know how to use for communication, I mean based on what we know there is no reason to believe quantum entaglement will ever be used for communication. Did you look at the links you included? The 1st one is even the one I gave you so that you could read to see the issues with quantum entanglement and communication. The 2nd one directly says they aren't looking quantum entanglement, but are looking at the Zeno effect. I did read your article, and posted the screenshot to show how that was in 2016 and articles coming one year after the other showing progress the Forbes article mentioned looking for certain conditions them sending a signal. The way I understand this concept was more making a pattern of change that would resemble binary, so the monitoring would be normal, but the communication of that data would be quatum. The 2018 article shows they made more progress on the entanglement method, this isnt close to being over anymore over then warp is we just havent finished yet. Quote To capture all of the energy around our sun, and yes that's an extreme example, but there's good reason to believe we'd recognize other less extreme examples too. If some of the planets in the solar system were actively being mined (whether by large ships or by self-replicating nano-machines), that's also something else we'd recognize. If there are billions of planets, why mine ones in the solar system of a species on course for light travel and already has nukes? Quote Based on what we see and no in the galaxy, there's no real reason to believe any life form has reached stage 3. That's your opinion, entitled to it, not going to try to change your mind, but strongly disagree it's that simple. Edited January 7, 2020 by Renegade7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RansomthePasserby Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: Because we jus started looking and only have the faintest idea of what to look for in a galaxy that is 100,000 lightyears wide. Agree to disagree that we would've seen evidence of a civilization that's too advanced for us to understand what/how they are doing or using same technology as us that's practically useless for communicating between star systems such as radio. We cant find civilizations on same level us us using current technology and cant expect to find something more advanced then us unless they want to be found, we almost have to wait until they come to us until we can reach their level, how ever long that will take. Exactly, we have no clue what we're doing on a galactic scale yet. I mean we didn't even know how to fly within our own atmosphere 120 years ago! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Renegade7 said: I did read your article, and posted the screenshot to show how that was in 2016 and articles coming one year after the other showing progress the Forbes article mentioned looking for certain conditions them sending a signal. The way I understand this concept was more making a pattern of change that would resemble binary, so the monitoring would be normal, but the communication of that data would be quatum. The 2018 article shows they made more progress on the entanglement method, this isnt close to being over anymore over then warp is we just havent finished yet. If there are billions of planets, why mine ones in the solar system of a species on course for light travel and already has nukes? That's your opinion, entitled to it, not going to try to change your mind, but strongly disagree it's that simple. 1. There are different ways to carry out quantum mechanical communication and different quantum mechanical communication have different advantages. Faster than light (FTL) quantum mechanical communication requires that I have an entangled particle and you have the matching particle. Then I do something to make my particle change states and your particle correspondingly changes states. However, based on our current understanding of quantum mechanics, that's not how things work. If I perturb my particle, the entanglement is lost. To us currently, that appears to be a fundamental component of quantum mechanics and not just a hurdle we have to or can get over. At least currently to us, it appears to be a natural law. The key thing here is for this to work, you and I already have to have the entangled particles and no transfer of particles has to happen between us for the communication to happen. However, while the loss of entanglement if the system is perturbed prevents FTL communication, it also can be used to create a very secure system. If I send you a message with an entangled particle and somebody tries to read the message, the entanglement is lost. If you have a particle that is entangled with the one that the message was sent with, if somebody has interfered with the message, then the entanglement is lost and you can see that the entanglement is lost and know the message is compromised. Because of this security aspect of quantum mechanical communication, people are investigating it as away to communicate. There are several hurdles that are being worked on. Things like, how do you entangle new particles, how many particles can be entangled at the same time, how can we store entangled particles, how many different places can the entanglement be propagated at the same time, the best ways to entangle particles, the best way to detect if particles are entangled, and the best way to transfer entangled particles are all technical hurdles that need to be over come and areas of research. The work that is being done in what you are citing are people that are doing that work. I suspect in the relatively near future we will see quantum mechanical based security for communications (now, maybe not in my life time, but certainly in my kids). In what they are doing, they are sending particles (they are using a fiber optic network to send photons). As part of that, the message is being sent as entangled particles, which is not FTL. The actual particles, just not the quantum states, have to travel. The papers you are citing are related to quantum cryptography and quantum key distribution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cryptography Not FTL communication. Now, it is always possible that we badly misunderstand quantum mechanics and if and when we understand what underlies quantum mechanics, that might become more clear to us. But we certainly appear to be a long long way from that happening. I use the word currently in that context. For any theory that we have, there is some (very small) possibility that we badly misunderstand it and that things that appear impossible today are in fact possible. 2. You're simultaneously implying opposing arguments. A. That higher level species would be so advanced that they could exist without us knowing it. B. That they'd be scared of us based on our technology and so leave planets in our system alone. That isn't logical. A species with technology so far above us that we aren't going to realize they are present isn't also going to fear us that they wouldn't mine our solar system. 3. Even beyond mining, it wouldn't be unreasonable for us to see evidence of intelligent life if it was wide spread in the galaxy. There are parts of Earth that we haven't explored and certainly don't do anything with (e.g. the deep seas and much of the Arctic and Antarctica), but there is also clear evidence that we exist. Our plastics are all over the world, including the deepest part of the oceans and places that humans have never been and that doesn't even take into account other affects that we've had that are much older (e.g. changing the composition of the atmosphere and oceans (e.g. ocean acidification)). We really haven't done anything in terms of the rest of the solar system (no mining, only put people on the moon), but we've still filled the solar system with our "stuff" (satellites, probes, boosters, radio signals, etc.) that would make it obvious we are here. By the time we set up another colony, we'll have filled the solar system and beyond with stuff that would be a signal to other intelligent life forms that we are here. 4. The fact that we don't really see any evidence of intelligent alien life isn't really an opinion. The only evidence that we have intelligent alien life is UFOs, which aren't really good evidence of intelligent alien life. (To me, you are essentially arguing that the fact that we don't see evidence of intelligent alien life isn't evidence that it doesn't exist, which I don't really disagree with. There might be some intelligent alien life, but it cannot be as common as the "back of the check" calculation I did before suggests (billions of civilizations that are billions of years older than us) and hence the Fermi Paradox and its possible solutions.) Edited January 8, 2020 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Aaaand now I can easily see that I'm way to stupid for this thread. Damned interwebz. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chachie said: Aaaand now I can easily see that I'm way to stupid for this thread. Damned interwebz. I'm glad I'm not the only one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) https://nickbostrom.com/extraterrestrial.pdf Nick Bostrom on why we shouldn’t be excited to find alien life in our solar system. Edited January 8, 2020 by No Excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 2 hours ago, No Excuses said: https://nickbostrom.com/extraterrestrial.pdf Nick Bostrom on why we shouldn’t be excited to find alien life in our solar system. No offense, sir, but I find it highly questionable that a Washington Capitals player thinks he can double as an expert on outer space. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 6 hours ago, Chachie said: No offense, sir, but I find it highly questionable that a Washington Capitals player thinks he can double as an expert on outer space. It's not the Washington Capitals Center, it's the Minnesota Wild Goaltender. And if there's anything I know about hockey goalies, it's that they spend a lot of time pondering space, as evidenced by Ilya Bryzgalov. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Whats kind of interesting is that for any potential spacefaring civilization that has interstellar travel, travelling to other galaxies really isn't that big of a deal. For example, the Milky Way is roughly 50k light years across. The closest galaxy is Andromeda which is 2.5 million lights years away. Say a civilization can travel across the Milky Way in about a week. Well that means its only 1 week * 2500k/50k = 50 weeks to get from the Milky Way to Andromeda. Its interesting because interplanetary travel vs. interstellar travel is totally different. We can currently traverse the solar system in roughly 1 year. But at the speed we do it would be something like 6,000 years to get to the nearest star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said: Whats kind of interesting is that for any potential spacefaring civilization that has interstellar travel, travelling to other galaxies really isn't that big of a deal. For example, the Milky Way is roughly 50k light years across. The closest galaxy is Andromeda which is 2.5 million lights years away. Say a civilization can travel across the Milky Way in about a week. Well that means its only 1 week * 2500k/50k = 50 weeks to get from the Milky Way to Andromeda. Its interesting because interplanetary travel vs. interstellar travel is totally different. We can currently traverse the solar system in roughly 1 year. But at the speed we do it would be something like 6,000 years to get to the nearest star. The leap from interstellar to cross-galactic is quite large, though. The nearest star is Proxima Centauri, and that's only about 4.2 lightyears away compared to your 2.5 million lightyears. Even in Star Trek TNG where interstellar travel is hum-drum everyday life, crossing to the far end of the Galaxy is an insurmountable trip with Federation technology (and no, anything involving Alex Kurtzman spore drives or instantaneous trans-warp beaming devices do not count as Star Trek). Edited January 9, 2020 by PokerPacker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, PokerPacker said: The leap from interstellar to cross-galactic is quite large, though. The nearest star is Proxima Centauri, and that's only about 4.2 lightyears away compared to your 2.5 million lightyears. Even in Star Trek TNG where interstellar travel is hum-drum everyday life, crossing to the far end of the Galaxy is an insurmountable trip with Federation technology (and no, anything involving Alex Kurtzman spore drives or instantaneous trans-warp beaming devices do not count as Star Trek). They didn't do the math. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Enterprise could get from one system to the next sometimes in like an hour. So lets call that ballpark 5 light years. Milky Way is 50,000 light years across. 50k/5 = 10k. 10,000 hours / 24 hours a day = 416 days. So the Enterprise should be able to traverse the galaxy in a year and change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 3 hours ago, PokerPacker said: It's not the Washington Capitals Center, it's the Minnesota Wild Goaltender. And if there's anything I know about hockey goalies, it's that they spend a lot of time pondering space, as evidenced by Ilya Bryzgalov. We don't get to go to the bench and talk about stuff between shifts. We stay in our crease with no one to talk to, following the puck while it's at the other end of the ice, thinking about pretty much anything. Next game, I promise to think about space cause I'm definitely going to have some time on my hands. I'll report back to the group what I come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 19 hours ago, PeterMP said: Now, it is always possible that we badly misunderstand quantum mechanics and if and when we understand what underlies quantum mechanics, that might become more clear to us. But we certainly appear to be a long long way from that happening. I use the word currently in that context. For any theory that we have, there is some (very small) possibility that we badly misunderstand it and that things that appear impossible today are in fact possible. Ya know, if FTL Quantum Communication isn't possible and we know Radio isn't realistic for interstellar communication, that could be a huge reason we haven't heard from anyone. Physics limits the ability for the galaxy to communicate with itself the way we are looking for. Yes, not all quantum communication is created equal, but seriously, we need to stop talking about radio like because we can't figure out FTL communication that a civilization a billion years ahead of us is still using radio. You are right that the type of quantum communication we are making more progress on is in regards to secure communications, but this is for a civilization that got creeped out by spooky action at a distance maybe 100 years ago, not a billion. I don't believe we understand quantum mechanics enough to say FTL isn't possible, the bigger problem is figuring out how to use this frame work without breaking entanglement or find another option. If light is the speed light of the natural laws of physics, probably our only hope is quantum and figuring out how to break rules that are already breaking rules. How do you observe something that stops on observation? I don't see how a galactic empire is even possible without FTL communication, how would you even hold it together or manage it? It's entirely possible that life has spread in the galaxy, but the galaxy is so large that certain parts don't try to stay in contact with each other anymore, something I predict will happen to humans in the future. And if we can't even prove FTL communication is possible, how can we possibly expect to intercept it and prove its happening? Quote 2. You're simultaneously implying opposing arguments. A. That higher level species would be so advanced that they could exist without us knowing it. B. That they'd be scared of us based on our technology and so leave planets in our system alone. That isn't logical. A species with technology so far above us that we aren't going to realize they are present isn't also going to fear us that they wouldn't mine our solar system. This shouldn't be an argument, should be a discussion with some points that can be debated. I never said a civilization would be scared of us, I said it doesn't make sense for them to do that. If we already having the conversation about not reaching out to other aliens, its realistic to expect other aliens are having the same conversation. Even a type 3 civilization would have to worry about other type 3 civilizations, the idea of harnessing the power of an entire galaxy makes no sense to me because of it being possibly being so obvious that other type 3 civilizations would notice it. Or a yet to be theoretical type 4? We shouldn't be paranoid of being found, but the truth is we don't know everything that's out there, we probably never will and don't need to. What moons or systems in the outer solar system are worth mining that can't be found in other places in the galaxy that won't tip us off? At some point if an alien civilization was colonizing our solar system we would notice and run into each other, if they have that level of disrespect for our claim to this being our home solar system, why not just go all the way and get rid of us now before we catch up to them? We should expect any species that's achieved FTL travel to be intelligent, mining pluto with cloak on doesn't make sense, why? What is in our solar system that could be in billions of other solar systems that they are in our backyard trying to be sneaky? Quote 3. Even beyond mining, it wouldn't be unreasonable for us to see evidence of intelligent life if it was wide spread in the galaxy. There are parts of Earth that we haven't explored and certainly don't do anything with (e.g. the deep seas and much of the Arctic and Antarctica), but there is also clear evidence that we exist. Our plastics are all over the world, including the deepest part of the oceans and places that humans have never been and that doesn't even take into account other affects that we've had that are much older (e.g. changing the composition of the atmosphere and oceans (e.g. ocean acidification)). We really haven't done anything in terms of the rest of the solar system (no mining, only put people on the moon), but we've still filled the solar system with our "stuff" (satellites, probes, boosters, radio signals, etc.) that would make it obvious we are here. By the time we set up another colony, we'll have filled the solar system and beyond with stuff that would be a signal to other intelligent life forms that we are here. Ya, but you'd be hard pressed to find any trace of our civilization say a million years from now if it stopped right now. Even plastics and radioactive fallout from a nuclear war at some point won't be obvious after a certain point. But this planet is just too small in the grand scheme of how large the galaxy is to say we should've seen the equivalent of microplastics in the ocean by now. We live in one of the four major arms of the milky way, and below is how much we've observed just in regards to looking for exoplanets, and I believe we are wasting time looking at any star that isn't similar to the sun in regards to finding other civilizations: Quote 4. The fact that we don't really see any evidence of intelligent alien life isn't really an opinion. The only evidence that we have intelligent alien life is UFOs, which aren't really good evidence of intelligent alien life. (To me, you are essentially arguing that the fact that we don't see evidence of intelligent alien life isn't evidence that it doesn't exist, which I don't really disagree with. There might be some intelligent alien life, but it cannot be as common as the "back of the check" calculation I did before suggests (billions of civilizations that are billions of years older than us) and hence the Fermi Paradox and its possible solutions.) Ya, just because it isn't obvious doens't mean we know what aliens would be obviously doing anyway to make an obvious conclusion. The fact that we can't prove aliens exist to me just means we don't know what we are looking for, but based on what we are looking for, not enough evidence for a conclusion intelligent life is out there, fair. We think we do, same way we can't prove FTL communication is possible yet using quantum mechanics. I don't think its as common as your back hand calculation, either, but I'll maintain that it's too early to make that call because of how many just could be in similar boat as us technology wise concerning FTL technology. FTL technology is probably so rare that other many aliens don't know each other exist, either. It's entirely possible first contact will be with a civilization that was concerned they were alone, too, galaxy is just the f'n big. We'd be lucky if it was an accident, even at 10 times the speed of light it would take at least 10,000 years to get from the other side of the milky way (longer because a straight line would be suicide). Anyone intentionally coming here from the other side to see us is going to have a reason, but what would they expect to find if they made that decision to come here 10,000 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hersh said: We don't get to go to the bench and talk about stuff between shifts. We stay in our crease with no one to talk to, following the puck while it's at the other end of the ice, thinking about pretty much anything. Next game, I promise to think about space cause I'm definitely going to have some time on my hands. I'll report back to the group what I come up with. My team's goalie doesn't shut up. He'll shout across the ice at the other goalie if he has to. 4 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said: They didn't do the math. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Enterprise could get from one system to the next sometimes in like an hour. So lets call that ballpark 5 light years. Milky Way is 50,000 light years across. 50k/5 = 10k. 10,000 hours / 24 hours a day = 416 days. So the Enterprise should be able to traverse the galaxy in a year and change. speed = warp^(10/3)*c Cruising speed of the Enterprise D is, I believe, warp 6 (they'll go up past 9 when they're in a rush). 6^(10/3) ~= 400. 50,000ly / 400c = 125 years it would take the Enterprise to travel across the galaxy. To get to another star system (let's go with Proxima Centauri from Earth as an example) it would be 4ly/400c = .01years , or around 3-4 days. If they're in a rush to get to Proxima and travel at maximum warp: (9.8 for the Galaxy-class ships). They can get there in 4ly/2000c = 19 hours. Even if they could sustain maximum warp without "flying her apart", that's still 50,000/2000c = 25 years. Step that up to Andromeda, and we're looking at 2.5Mly/2kc = 1250 years at maximum warp. And where's she gonna recharge her Dilithium Crystals out in the Intergalactic Void? Edited January 9, 2020 by PokerPacker 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) On 1/7/2020 at 4:46 PM, Mr. Sinister said: What if the hostile alien takeover across the galaxy already happened millions of years ago (basically like space nazis, seizing every artifact, every weapon, every means of communication), and due to all the wealth and overabundance of technology from their campaigns, they collapsed in on themselves and destroyed each other? 🤓 This is why Rouge One is my favorite Star Wars movie followed by Empire Strikes back. In Rouge One, they went up against a galactic empire with a space station the size of a planet that could destroy other planets. It wasn't just bold to kill off nearly every character, it was realistic. In canon, whether it was original republic, the eventual empire, or even the first order, none of them lasted forever, though. Same way neither did Rome or the Mogolian Empire. Edited January 9, 2020 by Renegade7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 16 hours ago, Chachie said: Aaaand now I can easily see that I'm way to stupid for this thread. Damned interwebz. 16 hours ago, The Evil Genius said: I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm honestly worried about this thread getting too technical for folks to want to talk about other things related to space at the same time : / I imagine a lot of people have the same questions but different answers. Not every discussion has to be a dissertation😁 11 minutes ago, PokerPacker said: speed = warp^(10/3)*c Cruising speed of the Enterprise D is, I believe, warp 6 (they'll go up past 9 when they're in a rush). 6^(10/3) ~= 400. 50,000ly / 400c = 125 years it would take the Enterprise to travel across the galaxy. To get to Proxima Centauri from Earth would be 4ly/400c = .01years , or around 3-4 days. If they're in a rush to get to the next star system (let's go with Proxima Centauri from Earth as an example) and travel at maximum warp: (9.8 for the Galaxy-class ships). They can get there in 4ly/2000c = 19 hours. Even if they could sustain maximum warp without "flying her apart", that's still 50,000/2000c = 25 years. Step that up to Andromeda, and we're looking at 2.5Mly/2kc = 1250 years at maximum warp. And where's she gonna recharge her Dilithium Crystals out in the Intergalactic Void? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I'm honestly worried about this thread getting too technical for folks to want to talk about other things related to space at the same time : / I imagine a lot of people have the same questions but different answers. Not every discussion has to be a dissertation😁 Does this help? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 "It's humangus big" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Renegade7 said: "It's humangus big" That's not what she said. Edited January 9, 2020 by The Evil Genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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