TSO Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 10 hours ago, carex said: That quote above about if you meet assholes all day you're the asshole is cramming 20 years as a day. And ignoring that a significant number of the people Dan brings in have reputations before they get here. Honestly, I feel bad for engaging with you here because I understand where you’re at in your fandom. I don’t blame you for it. I mean that sincerely, whether you believe it or not. But I’m pretty sure you haven’t thought through what you’re saying here. First off... obviously the quote was meant to be used as a vehicle of analogical deduction, so I don’t know why you’d think years as opposed to one day changes the point. Are you saying that it’s impossible not to have a large amount of enemies over a long span of time? Surely, the opposite can be true, right? That by treating people right most of the time, you’d compile a large amount of allies instead? Works both ways. Secondly, even if I were to accept your second statement as true (that these people “had reputations” before Dan brought them in - which I don’t), you do realize that’d mean you’re saying Dan willingly “brought in” aholes. That that’s whom he was attracted to. Was that the argument you really wanted to make? Anyway, I feel like it all goes back to the one thing I keep harping on lately, and that’s for us to stop treating everyone like static entities as opposed to the dynamic humans they are. Anyone hired here will not simply be “copied and pasted“ in terms of whatever talents they have or were able to apply elsewhere. It doesn’t work like that. That is why you have organization. The support structure is going to be the biggest factor in terms of whether they progress or regress. We’ve got too many examples of regression and way too few of progression, especially when it comes to those closest to the top who weren’t shielded by being under the span of control of someone else. And then they get targeted, blamed and scapegoated for it. Hence, the long list of people with truly personal vendettas (as opposed to just natural ones that normally occur in a competitive arena) that keeps growing by the day. I’m done asking how did so and so fail and what could so and so have done better. I’m only asking, from here on out, why didn’t so and so succeed here and how could have the owner and top executive set them up better for success? And if the answer to that doesn’t exist, then I’m pointing at their hiring process in the first place. I’m done flailing at replaceable targets who are given titles or roles that fluctuate in their meaning seemingly on a daily basis. My finger is pointed accurately and firmly at the ones ultimately responsible based on the firm titles they hold. Nothing more, nothing less. I don’t take any pride in changing your mind. Honestly. I meant what I said about where you’re at in your fandom. So if you want to attack my positions here, feel free to and I won’t be responding again. I don’t have anything to add really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 4 hours ago, thesubmittedone said: Honestly, I feel bad for engaging with you here because I understand where you’re at in your fandom. I don’t blame you for it. I mean that sincerely, whether you believe it or not. But I’m pretty sure you haven’t thought through what you’re saying here. First off... obviously the quote was meant to be used as a vehicle of analogical deduction, so I don’t know why you’d think years as opposed to one day changes the point. Are you saying that it’s impossible not to have a large amount of enemies over a long span of time? Surely, the opposite can be true, right? That by treating people right most of the time, you’d compile a large amount of allies instead? Works both ways. Secondly, even if I were to accept your second statement as true (that these people “had reputations” before Dan brought them in - which I don’t), you do realize that’d mean you’re saying Dan willingly “brought in” aholes. That that’s whom he was attracted to. Was that the argument you really wanted to make? Anyway, I feel like it all goes back to the one thing I keep harping on lately, and that’s for us to stop treating everyone like static entities as opposed to the dynamic humans they are. Anyone hired here will not simply be “copied and pasted“ in terms of whatever talents they have or were able to apply elsewhere. It doesn’t work like that. That is why you have organization. The support structure is going to be the biggest factor in terms of whether they progress or regress. We’ve got too many examples of regression and way too few of progression, especially when it comes to those closest to the top who weren’t shielded by being under the span of control of someone else. And then they get targeted, blamed and scapegoated for it. Hence, the long list of people with truly personal vendettas (as opposed to just natural ones that normally occur in a competitive arena) that keeps growing by the day. they are failing so it's not really scapegoating. What I want is for people to stop blaming everything on the people who continue to represent the team they're supposed to be rooting for. A significant number of them don't go on to any great success after the Redskins. Snyder has brought in far to many people with reputations of a big ego or of being arrogant. Maybe he's being to arrogant in thinking he can control them, maybe their behavior is close enough to his he doesn't recognize theirs as bad, but very few of these guys are innocent little angels victimized by the big bad Redskins and their satanic owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 14 hours ago, carex said: That quote above about if you meet assholes all day you're the asshole is cramming 20 years as a day. And ignoring that a significant number of the people Dan brings in have reputations before they get here. You are right. Dan has brought some people with big egos. But they also came here with very good pedigrees and proven success in the NFL. However, every single one of them have unperformed. Do you think that is really all on them? That Dan and the culture he has created at Redskins Park has had nothing to do with person after person with a good solid background in football has come here and under-performed? And some of them spectacularly! Sure, some of them were jerks - but then again he tends to gravitate to people like that so again who's fault is it that they are hear and ultimately fail? No matter how you look at it, Dan owns' this. That does not mean some of those, maybe even most of those contributed to their failure. But ultimately it all starts with Dan. It's clear he does not know how to create and foster a positive working environment that gets peoples best work out of them. I have made this analogy before - Every place I have worked I have excelled, except one. And that one place the environment was so toxic that it drug me down with it. I made decisions I would never make. It had me focusing on things that ultimately were not productive. As soon as I got out of that environment I again was greatly appreciated and was performing at an extremely high level. My point is the culture you work in can be a big part of how successful you are. It's impossible to ignore all these guys that have come in and performed well below their proven track record. Not directed at you - more for the thread in general - For those thinking that Kyle may not have a vendetta against the Skins (believe his coach speak from before the game), per Adam Shien in an unrelated article, Kyle gave his dad Mike S the game ball from Sunday's win against the Redskins. Yup, just another game.... LOL http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001068239/article/packers-are-nfcs-best-team-bears-doomed-by-mitch-trubisky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Mike Shanahan once ordered Elvis Grbac to throw a football al 65 year old Al Davis' head so it doesn't surprise me his son would be a prick too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 29 minutes ago, carex said: Mike Shanahan once ordered Elvis Grbac to throw a football al 65 year old Al Davis' head so it doesn't surprise me his son would be a prick too I think you are missing the point here. Yes, those guys were jerks before they got here. However, that's who Dan seems to gravitate towards. It's not like they were great people before and they turned bad while in Wash. But Dan knew they were jerks when they got here. And Ok that happens once., maybe twice. Then you say Ok, I need to find a different kind of person here. This is not working. Just time after time Dan hires the same type personality. I know you would like to think Dan is just an innocent victim of a bunch of mean people (maybe not your meaning, but that's the way it's coming across). But you reap what you sow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csup Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, carex said: Mike Shanahan once ordered Elvis Grbac to throw a football al 65 year old Al Davis' head so it doesn't surprise me his son would be a prick too In fairness Al Davis probably had it coming to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, goskins10 said: I think you are missing the point here. Yes, those guys were jerks before they got here. However, that's who Dan seems to gravitate towards. It's not like they were great people before and they turned bad while in Wash. But Dan knew they were jerks when they got here. And Ok that happens once., maybe twice. Then you say Ok, I need to find a different kind of person here. This is not working. Just time after time Dan hires the same type personality. I know you would like to think Dan is just an innocent victim of a bunch of mean people (maybe not your meaning, but that's the way it's coming across). But you reap what you sow. No, I wouldn't like to think that. I would like to think that these assholes are signing on with our asshole, so THEY reap what THEY sow in firings and loss of reputation, and them deciding these are vendetta games shows what assholes THEY are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 4 hours ago, goskins10 said: I have made this analogy before - Every place I have worked I have excelled, except one. And that one place the environment was so toxic that it drug me down with it. I made decisions I would never make. It had me focusing on things that ultimately were not productive. As soon as I got out of that environment I again was greatly appreciated and was performing at an extremely high level. My point is the culture you work in can be a big part of how successful you are. I think this is what it boils down to here. There are those of us who can empathize by relating it to something we’ve experienced (like you’re doing here), and there are those who refuse to or just haven’t had that experience. It’s why you often see the younger we are the more likely we’ll participate in that scapegoating versus recognizing the larger environmental factors contributing to it (I was a culprit of this myself not too long ago). Organizational principles are lost on many, but especially the young. Even those who claim to recognize the “source of the problem” don’t understand just how much of a factor it becomes in absolutely everything people do. There is no separating. Even the most mundane and basic of things become difficult. Not to get too off topic, but this very issue is arguably at the root of our country’s biggest social problems. For example, one can say racism itself is a direct effect of a lack of empathy towards the social environment many are forced into and how heavily it impacts their behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 3 hours ago, goskins10 said: I think you are missing the point here. Yes, those guys were jerks before they got here. However, that's who Dan seems to gravitate towards. It's not like they were great people before and they turned bad while in Wash. But Dan knew they were jerks when they got here. And Ok that happens once., maybe twice. Then you say Ok, I need to find a different kind of person here. This is not working. Just time after time Dan hires the same type personality I would add here good luck trying to hire anyone in as ultra-competitive a field as pro football who doesn’t have some level of arrogance to him. Jay was as easy going as it’ll likely get. Gibbs, too. Those are the types that are going to last here for any decent amount of time. But the results have proven their ceilings are significantly limited here. We’re either going to get someone who eventually burns it all down when matching levels of pettiness with our owner/TP or we’re going to get someone willing to eat a ton of crap while watching their reputation get destroyed. Either way, it’s regression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 10 hours ago, thesubmittedone said: Honestly, I feel bad for engaging with you here because I understand where you’re at in your fandom. I don’t blame you for it. I mean that sincerely, whether you believe it or not. First off... obviously the quote was meant to be used as a vehicle of analogical deduction, so I don’t know why you’d think years as opposed to one day changes the point. Are you saying that it’s impossible not to have a large amount of enemies over a long span of time? Surely, the opposite can be true, right? That by treating people right most of the time, you’d compile a large amount of allies instead? the firm titles they hold. Nothing more, nothing less. We get it. You got an A in your college logic course. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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