Bunny Kelly Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Obviously he could easily regress because up to this point we haven't seen loads of Flowers as a guard, but on the flip side he is still young & has adapted to this role quickly so his upside would suggest he could be a nice value signing if we get him signed up soon. Would we get a better value for money replacement in FA if he walked & had to be replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandB11 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 29 minutes ago, Bunny Kelly said: Obviously he could easily regress because up to this point we haven't seen loads of Flowers as a guard, but on the flip side he is still young & has adapted to this role quickly so his upside would suggest he could be a nice value signing if we get him signed up soon. Would we get a better value for money replacement in FA if he walked & had to be replaced? That video does show some interesting things. Flowers does not always have the best technique, its not usually pretty, but he does seem to generally get the job done. Could we get an upgrade? Yes. For what he should cost. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 On 12/2/2019 at 11:30 PM, megared said:  Curious timing on that. Last week (vs the Lions) Moses finished as the highest ranked player on both teams, per PFF. He didn't have any penalties then, or Sunday before he injured his back.      Well your guy Moses will be back in on Sunday I just heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Man, I hope they give Moses some help next time we play Philly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 14 hours ago, Vanguard said: Well your guy Moses will be back in on Sunday I just heard.  He isn't my guy. But the idea of Bruce replacing 4 starting linemen in one offseason appeals to me even less.  With the exception of Roullier, all of them were prone to mental errors, and mistakes.  Since Jay was shown the door, all five guys have appeared on PFF's Team of the Week (which equates to them earning the highest grade at their position for the week).   The salary cap is not going to be a constraint for the team in 2020. If this unit continues to improve through the end of the season, I'd be all for keeping them in tact, if possible. There's plenty of other places on the team that will need attention.   If the FO cuts Moses, we're pretty much pigeonholed into taking a T with our top pick, if Penn actually retires.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 On 12/3/2019 at 10:50 AM, panahoo said: That video does show some interesting things. Flowers does not always have the best technique, its not usually pretty, but he does seem to generally get the job done. Could we get an upgrade? Yes. For what he should cost. No. What I like best about Flowers’ play is his attitude.  He goes looking for work and when he finds it, he puts a lot of nasty into it (in a good way).  He’s fun to watch and I think that attitude can be infectious (in a good way).  2 hours ago, megared said:  He isn't my guy. But the idea of Bruce replacing 4 starting linemen in one offseason appeals to me even less.  With the exception of Roullier, all of them were prone to mental errors, and mistakes.  Since Jay was shown the door, all five guys have appeared on PFF's Team of the Week (which equates to them earning the highest grade at their position for the week).   The salary cap is not going to be a constraint for the team in 2020. If this unit continues to improve through the end of the season, I'd be all for keeping them in tact, if possible. There's plenty of other places on the team that will need attention.   If the FO cuts Moses, we're pretty much pigeonholed into taking a T with our top pick, if Penn actually retires.  Yeah, I feel the same way.  Honestly, I’d be looking for Moses replacement (starting this offseason) but keep him around until we find that guy. Even if that means he winds up as a very expensive backup for a season.  I’ll add that I was impressed with his play vs Carolina, even though he looked terrible at times earlier in the season.  GB will be a good test for him, as will Philly... and probably Dallas.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 4 hours ago, megared said:  He isn't my guy. But the idea of Bruce replacing 4 starting linemen in one offseason appeals to me even less.  Okay.  Well I just don’t want to see you backpedal, after defending him so staunchly.  I’ll be watching him closely on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtfskins Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Yes they do.  Flowers been playing lights out.  Keep it up Flowers we appreciate it and so do the backs I’m sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Good game Flowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 The PFF numbers are starting to show it too. He was sitting in the 50s midseason and is now sitting at 64.1, which means that he has been in the 70s the last several weeks. The scary thing is he is going to continue getting better as he adjusts to the position. You have to resign both Scherff and him. Those two are the reason we have been able to run the ball against nearly every team we have faced since Callahan took over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, method man said: The PFF numbers are starting to show it too. He was sitting in the 50s midseason and is now sitting at 64.1, which means that he has been in the 70s the last several weeks. The scary thing is he is going to continue getting better as he adjusts to the position. You have to resign both Scherff and him. Those two are the reason we have been able to run the ball against nearly every team we have faced since Callahan took over I especially love the fact that we’re successfully running the ball when teams know we’re going to run it.  Once Haskins was injured Guice and Peterson still plowed down the field - that was great to see.   I’m concerned that Flowers is going to be open to re-signing but Allen will still be in charge and lowball him.  Bigger fish to fry if Allen is still hanging around, but that would suck.   The future of our oline is kind of concerning/maddening in general.  At least we have Martin and Christian in the pipeline... I guess.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 A couple things in our favor re signing Flowers.  1] we gave him a chance when he was close to being out of the league  2] his play last year was so bad and so visible that I think a lot of GMs would think twice about risking their reputation signing him to a big contract on the off chance that he regresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtfskins Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 23 hours ago, mojo said: A couple things in our favor re signing Flowers.  1] we gave him a chance when he was close to being out of the league  2] his play last year was so bad and so visible that I think a lot of GMs would think twice about risking their reputation signing him to a big contract on the off chance that he regresses.  On 12/8/2019 at 8:49 PM, skinny21 said: I especially love the fact that we’re successfully running the ball when teams know we’re going to run it.  Once Haskins was injured Guice and Peterson still plowed down the field - that was great to see.   I’m concerned that Flowers is going to be open to re-signing but Allen will still be in charge and lowball him.  Bigger fish to fry if Allen is still hanging around, but that would suck.   The future of our oline is kind of concerning/maddening in general.  At least we have Martin and Christian in the pipeline... I guess.  You can not sign these players to a big contract low ball them is the way to go let other teams make the mistake in overpaying and we will watch these players be out of the league in two years.  These millennials or new age players only work hard til they get a contract then they don’t care or hope to be cut or retire two years later.  These kids just don’t play up to their contracts like they used to.  I say don’t over pay a soul in this league unless they are generational players who can guarantee work ethic.  Follow the patriots organization redraft and teach new young players to play in the system for decent money.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtfskins Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 6:00 PM, Vanguard said: Good game Flowers. Last game he stunk it up against the packers they abused both our defense and offensive line they made us look like girls on both sides of the ball. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Flowers may have been our best OL this year, and that's because the bar has been so low. Brandon Scherff has looked unusually terrible the past few weeks. I'm surprised he isn't getting more heat from our fanbase as a top 5 pick. The guy has been a weak link in pass protection, and our running game has been best behind Flowers and Penn. I rewatched some of the game from this week, and Scherff looks completely lost in pass protection. He and the Center have no chemistry apparently because Scherff kept passing his guy off and the Center wasn't there. Meanwhile, Scherff would pass his guy off to block... no one. He needs to get it together if he's expecting a big pay day. I hope Wes Martin is developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 20 hours ago, wtfskins said: Last game he stunk it up against the packers they abused both our defense and offensive line they made us look like girls on both sides of the ball.  He didn’t give up a sack, I know that.  I haven’t seen all the film though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 One thing that I haven’t mentioned yet about Flowers (I think, lol) - I love that he’s always one of the first guys celebrating with and congratulating his teammates.  In other words, I love his enthusiasm and I believe the other guys do to.  Doesn’t trump production, but it’s both great to see and I’m guessing is the kind of thing that helps the team culture.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 They need to re-sign Flowers NOW and at least have security at one guard position.  LT is a huge question mark. Williams wants out, Penn will probably retire, and I don't think Christian is going in as the starter. RG is a question with Scherff gong into FA.   You would prefer not to rotate at least 3 guys on the OL all at once. In an ideal world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Theres a 12 minute clip of highlights of Ereck Flowers over on YouTube..  This man must be locked down!!!...  With that said, I call b.s on people around here that say "pfff and they say Callahan is a good o line coach..yeah right"  Flowers couldn't block a cardboard statue of tk before coming here..now dude is looking at comeback player of the year...and callahan can't coach em up..lol  Two very big things this off season would be to lock down scherff and extend flowers..where is flowers in his contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:  Two very big things this off season would be to lock down scherff and extend flowers..where is flowers in his contract? This has to be a must for Rivera and company. It makes too much sense for where the organization is at as well, the money is available to easily splurge a bit at Oline, this is also with hope Williams comes back. Many of the teams projected better players are on rookie deals, let’s shore up the trenches and role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 There is a pretty cool feature of over the cap where they have a 2019 valuation. For flowers, it's 6.1 million.   https://overthecap.com/player/ereck-flowers/3857/  If we could sign him to a 4 year deal at that rate, that's a no brainer.  The sad thing is when we signed him this last season for 3.25 mil, I thought why'd they give that bum that much? Think about how much better he could be with Trent to his left and not penn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 Good to hear Ron stating he wants to bring flowers back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Even though Rivera is on record as wanting him back, must admit I’m not that excited about it either way. As long as the money is reasonable I suppose, but if he were to leave I could live with us trying Martin at LG.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibbidoe Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: Even though Rivera is on record as wanting him back, must admit I’m not that excited about it either way. As long as the money is reasonable I suppose, but if he were to leave I could live with us trying Martin at LG.    Martin already got playing time @ RG (typo previously - oops) filling in for Scherff, IIRC. I'd actually prefer he get a shot to start and see us trade Scherff.  Martin with Flowers coming back saves us a ton of cap space. Flowers earned a decent raise and I've read that John Matsko is just as respected as Callahan for OL coaches. Flowers should continue to improve and be well worth having around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 47 minutes ago, tibbidoe said:  Martin already got playing time @ LG filling in for Scherff, IIRC. I'd actually prefer he get a shot to start and see us trade Scherff.  Martin with Flowers coming back saves us a ton of cap space. Flowers earned a decent raise and I've read that John Matsko is just as respected as Callahan for OL coaches. Flowers should continue to improve and be well worth having around. Sherff is a RG, Martin played RG not LG when he started, Rivera wanting both starting OG back says Martin might not be ready to be a starter yet.  HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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