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Do the Redskins have a future guard in Flowers?

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I haven’t really paid much attention to him but he does seem to be the least flagged oline we have and the videos above show some impressive reaction and recovering times for him.  The things that stood out to me the most were where he had already taken care of his block and was looking immediately for, and helping, with others that were getting beat 

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Per my expert eye test, Flowers seems to be outperforming Scherff.

 

Penn seems much better than Moses as well.

 

Which says a lot about Callahan, I suppose. He is very much hit or miss in what he does.

 

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7 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Per my expert eye test, Flowers seems to be outperforming Scherff.

 

Penn seems much better than Moses as well.

 

Which says a lot about Callahan, I suppose. He is very much hit or miss in what he does.

 

 

I disagree

 

It says more about the person in my opinion. Sounds like Flowers came in and did a lot of work. Knowing this might be his last shot. Penn has been a good tackle period throughout his career. He's just getting older.

 

It tells me Moses and Scherff aren't putting in the work needed to improve and get better. Callahan might not be a good head coach, but he's known to be a great offensive line coach.

 

I doubt he teachers each linemen differently. It's up to the linemen to run with what he teaches to get better. Some guys on this team aren't getting better and I blame the individual for that not the coach when it comes to this. 

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10 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

I disagree

 

It says more about the person in my opinion. Sounds like Flowers came in and did a lot of work. Knowing this might be his last shot. Penn has been a good tackle period throughout his career. He's just getting older.

 

It tells me Moses and Scherff aren't putting in the work needed to improve and get better. Callahan might not be a good head coach, but he's known to be a great offensive line coach.

 

I doubt he teachers each linemen differently. It's up to the linemen to run with what he teaches to get better. Some guys on this team aren't getting better and I blame the individual for that not the coach when it comes to this. 

 

Heh they aren't putting in the work?? Any source there?  Even if they aren't putting in the work, their repeated mental errors falls on Callahan. Who has basically been damn close to the #2 in command his entire tenure here.

 

Flowers put in a lot of work... yeah at tackle and it's worth noting Callahan failed us there radically trying to change his stance etc.

 

Interesting that you are giving Callahan a pass. I think he should have been replaced ~ 2 years ago, and that his time here has proven Callahan is no longer a good OL.  The game changes, and defenses evolve and I just don't see him keeping pace. He seems cut from the brick and mortar stone age.  Our OL gets abused at any deception and it's been that way for years. Our run game has been pathetic almost his entire tenure here. He can't hang his hat on the great AP willing his way to 1000 yards that one year... which means almost nothing now in the 16 game season anyways. 

 

It's always easier and dare I think wiser to try to replace an assistant coach before jettisoning all the players.

Edited by RandyHolt

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People forget that Penn has been a pro bowler I think more than once on the Raiders. His main issue is that he is getting older and might wear down as the season hits the second half. 

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Very happy for that young man. Callahan saw a guard in him where everybody else saw an underachieving tackle. Sometimes, it takes good coaching to know how and where to best utilize a player's talent.

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Yea Flowers is a keeper.  I would love to see Wes Martin learn to be a Center with his brute strength. Flowers  Martin and Sherff in the middle would be a good thing. Roulier could be to a great backup for depth. Just trying to find a starting job for Wes Martin the 2nd strongest guy in the draft and 1st on the team. First round pick needs to be a QB or Left Tackle or a complete shut down corner. Tight End is high priority too. It's that simple. But watch the Redskins draft a RB first and then a safety.

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14 hours ago, method man said:

Does anyone get why he rates as only a 60.1 in PFF?


Good question.

 

But if Flowers can keep playing like he’s playing......

I admit, I was wrong about his ability up to this point.

Edited by Vanguard

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Again Flowers was excellent.  Resign him, he has resurrected his career.  We’ve figured something out!!!!

Edited by Vanguard
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1 minute ago, Vanguard said:

Again Flowers was excellent.  Resign him, he has resurrected his career.  We’ve figured something out!!!!

 

What happens if Wes Martin turns into a monster next year, and we re-sign Scherff and Flowers ?

I guess that's a good depth problem to have.

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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27 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

What happens if Wes Martin turns into a monster next year, and we re-sign Scherff and Flowers ?

I guess that's a good depth problem to have.

then one of them converts to center

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4 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

What happens if Wes Martin turns into a monster next year, and we re-sign Scherff and Flowers ?

I guess that's a good depth problem to have.

In my opinion Scherff will leave, we will re-sign Flowers to a deal of about 8m per year. How about this for a possible starting OL next year. 

 

Christian 

Martin 

Roullier 

Flowers 

Thomas(1st pick in draft). 

 

Not necessarily my choice but could this be possible?. 

 

HTTR 

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15 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

In my opinion Scherff will leave, we will re-sign Flowers to a deal of about 8m per year. How about this for a possible starting OL next year. 

 

Christian 

Martin 

Roullier 

Flowers 

Thomas(1st pick in draft). 

 

Not necessarily my choice but could this be possible?. 

 

HTTR 


 

Id like to keep Scherff for at least some continuity.

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I don't know why we shouldn't keep Scherff and Flowers. Once we god rid of our overpaid non-performing veterans (Norman, Reed, etc.) we should have enough cap space to keep both and I don't want to bet on the development of Wes Martin even though I like his potential. 

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51 minutes ago, Vanguard said:


 

Id like to keep Scherff for at least some continuity.

I would to, if Allen is still GM( please No) I think Scherff is gone but new GM there is a chance he stays. I'm not sure I would pay him elite money though. 

 

HTTR 

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8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd like to keep our interior line intact. 

I think I agree, but I've been a bit underwhelmed with Scherff the past two years. 

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23 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I think I agree, but I've been a bit underwhelmed with Scherff the past two years. 

 

He was playing hurt last year and coming back off injury this year- not to mention he was making up for missed plays from Moses. He may be done - if so fair enough. But I would hope they at least try to sign him. 

 

The rest is not directed at you in any way. Just continuing: 

As for Flowers - I seem to remember the board flooded with "Flowers is total **** at T no reason to think he will be any better at G". And anyone who dared utter anything like - how about we give him a chance before declaring him useless - got pretty much attacked and their football knowledge questioned. Told that they were drinking the Bruce Allen koolaid - which may be the dumbest thing ever written. 

 

Wonder where all those people are. I don't typically call these things out - but the vitriol slung towards anyone even remotely suggesting it's worth a shot was particularly vile. 

 

The point is you have to separate the dislike for Bruce/FO in general with individual moves. Just because they did it does not make it automatically bad. Also, give them a chance is not the same thing as saying it will work out for sure. It means you can see where there is a possibility. Some work out some do not. 

 

I hate Bruce Allen with a passion but you have to give him credit here. Also, he/they are pretty decent about finding guys mid-season to contribute. Our 2 OLBs yesterday after Anderson was tossed were not on the team to start the season. One was just signed last week I believe.

 

Back to Flowers - so far this looks like a really good signing. And as little a fan as I am on Callahan he has done a nice job getting these guys to play together. I do wonder where he was the last 6 yrs. He did own the run game and the o-line.  

 

 

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I was thinking about that (Scherff's injuries) and Moses' struggles. I think when we grade Scherrf we can't ignore the injuries, but we also can't excuse them. What is the liklihood he won't get hurt again? That has to be calculated into how good he is and how much he is worth. As to the other side, if he's struggling because he has to do his job and cover for Moses then that should not be counted against him.

 

My guess is that Scherrf is going to want a top salary entering free agency. Has his play warranted that? Has his injury history warranted that? All of it has to be considered. All in all, I prefer to keep him, but he's not the second incarnation of Russ Grimm (though Russ got hurt a lot, too. He just fought through it more effectively.)

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I’d bring both Scherff and Flowers back. We are going to have a ton of cap room and would use it to overpay mediocre PRichie types if we went the external route anyway. Set up outs in both contracts after 2-3 years are up so we have flexibility to cut either once the guys from this draft class are up for FA.
 

Moses has played a bit better recently - I am curious to see if he’d do well under another OL coach. We need to see Christian get all snaps this point out to understand if he is a starter here next year at either LT kr RT. If not, then it becomes important to find a guy

 

 

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7 minutes ago, dswerdlw said:

Did Moses leave the game yesterday? I thought I saw Christian playing most of the second half at RT.

Yeah I think so. Christian played a lot at RT, not sure why Moses wasn't in though. I don't remember the commentators talking about it.

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2 of our best players are Dunbar & ioaniddis who we say were progressing & got signed up on a  nice deal, Flowers seems like the same situation. We tie him down now I think he is more grateful for skins re-building his career & we get a more team friendly contract, in the off-season I think there could be a market for him at guard give age & progress shown

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