Disciplined, commitment to the run football back in DC and it works! Who knew?

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I never understood the whole "Camp Gruden" thing, because in his time here, I thought it was pretty amazing that he never seemed to lose the team in any meaningful sense. It always seemed like the team respected him and played hard for him. Even if the game plans or whatever sucked. I don't care that he got fired mid-season but I never thought he was the main problem. And I never thought this Callahan "Pass out the salt tablets" approach to football was going to work.

I agree with this and give Gruden a lot of credit for the 2017 (or was ig 2016) season when he held things together during all the injuries (if I'm correct, that was the first wave of injuries that devistated us). I think I also gave Scot Mc credit for finding players off the street that could come in and compete and not make penalties and stuff in these games. It was inspiring to watch. 

 

But that doesn't separate the stuff from last year. There's something going on with Gruden and the guys he picks for DC. Not necessarily a camp gruden thing, but its something. THere's also something with 'alpha' or strong personalities, particularly with those who criticize him. What happened with DJ? Why did he defend Mason Foster? Why did he hate AP? What happened with Breeland? What happened with Sua? 

 

I initially loved Gruden because he seemed like a teacher type coach who focused on improving players and thats what we were getting those first few years. But when the team changed from a young one of unprovens to guys on their second contracts (Reed, Thompson, Moses, even Cousins), I feel like we saw less teaching and more....I don't know what to call it other than just chaos. I just lived with the lack of halftime adjustments, but he still couldn't get plays in. He would call out players at press conferences (I know he did with RG3, Norman, Cousins and AP), 

 

This isn't to say he's a bad coach or didn't do a good job here, but it seems like he was losing the team, especially this year. We can talk about the whys until the cows come home but I can't help but think that the Smith injury was the straw that broke the camel's back - both for Gruden and the team. 

 

I absolutely don’t think motivation comes from ra-ra speeches, or that kind of thing. Motivation at the nfl level is more based on preparation, knowing the plan will work, and trusting the team to execute the plan and win.  If players just don’t believe, this effects commitment, practice and preparation effort, and at times game day effort, though that is typically the last thing to go.  

Well you have your opinion, but there's a reason that guys like Ray Lewis gives them. There's a reason that players and people say they would "run through a brick wall" for Tomlin. Not all coaches do it and not all coaches need to. Gibbs was a tactician and a genius. Same with Parcells. Same with Belichick. But that's not the only way to be a coach. And its definitely not the only way to have a locker room. Because that 91 team had Brian Mitchell who is definitely a ra ra guy. Other teams had Dexter Manley who's a ra ra guy. It exists. 

 

And I don't think its as simple as a player 'going through the motions', but I do think that somebody like Norman on that play where he tried to cover two guys (to make up for Moreau's mistake) and his guy catching the TD pass, if somebody like Landon Collins could get in his face and tell him I just need you to do your job and if Moreau messes up let coach handle that". That's something that I think happens a lot at this level of sports because we have a lot of alpha males who are used to doing a lot, especially where they're used to being the most talented guy on the field and now they're not anymore. Maybe not as much in Norman's case but definitely with younger guys. 

[Thinking Skins]

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think players have either a winning mindset or not.  This isn't a new fangled 2019 drill with players, same thing happened last time in 2018 but in a different context. 

 

Some legends like Bill Walsh weren't known for hard practices and some legends like Parcells were. You got all types and all styles have won.   Some players have talked about this (guys like Strahan, etc) that the good teams had really good locker rooms with players who were accountable to each other.  they had the right chemistry-leadership, etc.

 

I think a dude like Peterson plays hard no matter what the context.  We need IMO more guys like that.  I noticed Landon Collins yesterday flying around everywhere -- he looked like another dude who is self-motivated.  Back when our defense wasn't half bad -- London Fletcher seemed to be a monster level leader. 

 

I do think we got some good guys on that front but reading that story makes me think we need more of them than we have now. 

See the reply I just gave to @Voice_of_Reason. I think you're right in the macro, but in the micro I think there are details into why a player my be "checking out". If I'm a guy from Alabama or Clemson or Ohio State and I'm not used to losing, I may be failing at my job because I'm trying to overcompensate because I'm not used to losing. We see this all the time with QBs trying to do everything, forcing throws that aren't there, running on plays where they should throw it away, and just trying to do too much. I don't think its always just them trying to chuck it and say forget about winning, but they may have to learn to trust their teammates and lean on them more. 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not saying effort doesn't vary from player to player.  Of course it does, that's natural and part of what makes a player who they are.  We've seen examples of effort guys here who probably don't play at this level if not for their effort.

 

That said, I don't think that's something that pro players develop via coaching.  They are either high effort players or they are not.  And for those who say if a guy isn't giving high effort 100% of the time, you bench him...sure, when there is somebody remotely viable behind them, that's an option.  That isn't always an option.

 

 

Oh, I wasn’t arguing/disagreeing with you in that post... 

I’m not sure I agree that coaching (in the Pros) can’t develop effort, though I’d certainly agree that 1) it’s probably difficult to do so, 2) it probably doesn’t happen all that often and 3) coaching most often just impacts motivation situationally.  I’d also guess that development (ie improvement) of motivation is probably more often tied to peers than coaches
 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

Well you have your opinion, but there's a reason that guys like Ray Lewis gives them.

 

Yes because he killed a guy and had to rebuild his brand in order to get a media job after his retirement.

 

I think some guys respond to Ray Lewis type stuff. I think others roll their eyes at it.

 

I actually think all the coaches you named - Gibbs, Parcells, Bellichik, and Tomlin - are all kinda the same. Not in personality. Not in ability to deliver pre-game speeches. But they all seem to great individual managers of people and personalities. Gibbs someone developed loyalty in Dexter Manley (an illiterate coke addict), Joe Theismann (someone always looking for a tv camera) and Darrel Green (a devout Christian). Parcells managed to keep absolute freak show human beings like Taylor, Megget, and Brian Cox devoutly loyal to him. BB has treated every play like a widget for 30 years while still keeping them all committed to the same cause. And Tomlin...I mean, it turns out that he may have been the only thing keeping Antonio Brown sane for all those years.

 

I think 80 percent of pro coaching is managing relationships with players. And all the great ones are able to do it differently in each situation.

 

I think that's what players want. Someone that they want to be loyal to because they will receive loyalty back. Not necessarily in a job for life but because you are treated like a human being.

 

This Callahan Junction Boys nonsense can't possibly work.

[Thinking Skins]

13 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

This Callahan Junction Boys nonsense can't possibly work.

I agree with everything up to this. I dont know how Cal is treating players in terms of badly, but I do know he's rewarding hard work in practice with praise in the press conferences. Thats for AP and for Case initially, and now for Haskins. Not saying that means much but its a different vibe than I had when Gruden castrated RG3 that first season. And even later it was always like he'd take jabs at a player "I just wish Kirk would take more deep shots, Norman's not an elite player, well if we run it 55 times". Thats not how you build a locker room. 

 

I'm not the biggest Cal fan but I am a fan of history and what's proven to work in this league over the new innovative thing that may or may not work. Sure innovation is good but in moderation. I don't want a mathematician who says "I'm going to throw out the times tables because I've got a new way to do it" (unfortunately I hear that's how they're doing it now in schools). Its not necessarily about hard practices to me, but stuff like being able to run the ball and play defense are iomportant to me, and as much as I feel like Gruden talked about it, I don't think they were to Gruden. He let Morris go, replaced him with Matt Jones and then an UDFA in Rob Kelley, then Perine, then when Guice got hurt he didn't like AP who is the best RB we've had since CP. And the DCs were Haslett (who he vouched for to the point where Haslett had to retire because Gruden wouldn't fire him), Barry and Manusky. He literally refused to hire Wade Phillips. So I can see the label of him as a good OC, but bad HC. 

 

Whoever we bring in to replace Gruden, even if it is Cal, I hope they have a baseline of good defense and running the ball. From there we can have as dynamic of a passing game as we can get, but for November and December football in the northeast states where the winds can be 60 mph on the regular, I want to be able to win those games. Not to mention the pressure that takes off the QB, knowing he won't have to do it all. I think that's one of the reasons why Cousins is having the year he is, because Cook is a really good back who can set the tempo and close out games and lessen the load on Cousins. 

 

But yeah, this isn't ra ra stuff. Its more coaching technique. But how do you become a physical team without physical practices? 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

But yeah, this isn't ra ra stuff. Its more coaching technique. But how do you become a physical team without physical practices? 

 

No one has physical practices any longer. It's essentially outlawed by the CBA. You're allowed pads, lke, 9 times in all of training camp.

 

That's the main reason, I think, that Gruden's teams always seemed sloppy in September.

 

It's also the reason pretty much every team seems sloppy in September.

 

There is no more Riggo Drill. There is no more Oklahoma Drill. All that **** is gone.

[Thinking Skins]

4 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

No one has physical practices any longer. It's essentially outlawed by the CBA. You're allowed pads, lke, 9 times in all of training camp.

 

That's the main reason, I think, that Gruden's teams always seemed sloppy in September.

 

It's also the reason pretty much every team seems sloppy in September.

 

There is no more Riggo Drill. There is no more Oklahoma Drill. All that **** is gone.

 

yeah you're allowed 9 so why not use the 9, especially if you have a problem with getting pushed around. I get the balance thing where there are injuries, but if you're going to play in pads whe not practice in pads? I understand that there's a mental aspect of the game and I don't want to minimize walkthroughs, but that's not all there is to the game. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I assume they are going to spend several hours this week on "Selfie Discipline." Once that gets under control, the sky is the limit.

[SkinFanInMinn]

I figured this thread would surface again after the win.  I just wasnt' sure if it would be serious or snark.  Question answered.  😂

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

1 hour ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

I figured this thread would surface again after the win.  I just wasnt' sure if it would be serious or snark.  Question answered.  😂

 

Wait until Callahan gets the gig on a permy basis. Which would be the Redskinist Redskin thing ever. 

 

Heads will literally fall off all over the place in here. 

 

Hail. 

[SkinFanInMinn]

2 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Wait until Callahan gets the gig on a permy basis. Which would be the Redskinist Redskin thing ever. 

 

Head will literally fall off over the place in here. 

 

Hail. 

If Allen and Callahan are both here next year, I'll probably take a sabbatical from the Redskins for a while.  I don't think my blood pressure could handle it.

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Wait until Callahan gets the gig on a permy basis. Which would be the Redskinist Redskin thing ever. 

 

Head will literally fall off over the place in here. 

 

Hail. 

 

The organization will deserve everything it gets if Bruce and Callahan are back next year.  I wont leave, I just dont think there will be anything left at some point.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Wait until Callahan gets the gig on a permy basis. Which would be the Redskinist Redskin thing ever. 

 

Head will literally fall off all over the place in here. 

 

Hail. 

 

The only way that can happen is if Bruce stays and nobody else is interested in the gig, under the circumstances.  I don't credit Dan with much at all, but he's got to know that this is unacceptable and that the embarrassment he's faced to this point will pale in comparison if he allows that to happen.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm honestly in favor of firing Callahan at this point and bringing back Jay.

 

I've said this a dozen times: I would 100 percent trust Jay to develop a rookie QB.  But they asked him to do that during a lame duck season.

 

They should have given him an extension tied to Haskin's contract.

 

 

[skinny21]

33 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I'm honestly in favor of firing Callahan at this point and bringing back Jay.

I disagree with this because of the optics and the fact Jay wouldn’t return, but...

33 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I've said this a dozen times: I would 100 percent trust Jay to develop a rookie QB.  But they asked him to do that during a lame duck season.

 

They should have given him an extension tied to Haskin's contract.

 

 

I definitely agree with all of this.  

[TheGoodBits]

49 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I'm honestly in favor of firing Callahan at this point and bringing back Jay.

 

I've said this a dozen times: I would 100 percent trust Jay to develop a rookie QB.  But they asked him to do that during a lame duck season.

 

They should have given him an extension tied to Haskin's contract.

 

 

 

This past offseason would have been a weird time to give an extension, but if they liked what he did with Kirk they should have given him a 2-3 year extension when they let Kirk walk and traded a significant sum for Alex Smith. I know this is shocking to hear, but the front office did a really bad job with planning.

 

Now, in summary, we have no coach, no reliable veteran quarterback, and a 1st round rookie QB project that has (checks notes) no coach to get him to where he needs to be. 

 

What a dumpster fire. 

[SkinFanInMinn]

3 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

I know this is shocking to hear, but the front office did a really bad job with planning.

"We're Americans!  We do plan, we do!"  - anybody name that movie and the character that said it?

[Chelsea_Phil]

12 minutes ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

"We're Americans!  We do plan, we do!"  - anybody name that movie and the character that said it?

Stepbrothers?

 

No, that was ‘Don’t hug me, you fag-got’

[skinny21]

51 minutes ago, Chelsea_Phil said:

Stepbrothers?

 

No, that was ‘Don’t hug me, you fag-got’

This is hilarious...

 

but you might want to edit the language

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Bumping this for GHH...

 

Callahan is still an old bum that whether you know it or not, really better hope doesn't become the next head coach of this football team.

 

But it's your time to shine this week, sir!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Whatever the reason, the team is playing differently now--and better--than it was at the beginning of the season. Yes, it's hard not to play better than those first 5 weeks lol...but it's damn easy for the players to coast during an abysmal season for an interim coach, and an OC and DC who would seem to be out the door as well. I said earlier in this thread (I think it was this thread lol) that everyone kept saying before the season started that the team would have to rely on its running game and defense if it were to have any chance of winning games...it has taken a while but that seems to be the direction the team has been trending towards under Callahan.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Having Darius Guice rack up 27.70 points to all but clinch another fantasy play-off season was the coup de grace to an excellent football Sunday. 😀

 

Hail. 

 

 

 

[SkinFanInMinn]

Was going to bump this for GHH since he whined about it in another thread.  😋  Best game of the season so far.  They actually played 3 quarters, one quarter more than the first game of the season against the Eagles.  Still want to wait before we start fitting Callahan for his hall-of-fame jacket.  Would like to see it against teams with real qbs not these bottom feeders we've been getting, but this week was definitely an improvement.  First game I think they would have won with their starting qb playing.  I still think they lose against the Lions if Stafford was playing and against the Bucs if they'd started Fitzmagic all game.

[D’Pablo]

Not endorsing him as the next head coach, but Callahan > Gruden. I ****ing hated when he was hired and I did a jig when he was fired.

[profusion]

The difference in discipline and execution is noticeable. Doesn't mean I'd hire Callahan as the permanent HC, but it is a refreshing change from the sloppiness of Jay's era.