bakedtater1

Reality check time.

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Let's use this thread to discuss the pros and cons of purposely losing to get a better draft pick. AKA Tanking the season.

 

Pros...there is none..absolutely none.

You can try to argue till you're blue in the face but you will lose.

 

Cons..looking like a chump rooting for your supposedly favorite football team to lose on purpose...

 

I see plenty of folks on here say till snyder is out of the picture...well guess what..until hes out of the picture even draft picks are going to be botched...1st overall 10th,5th,3rd...it dont matter where the skins pick...so, seriously take a step back from the ledge and check your self and question your fan hood. 

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you have a lot less chance of ****ing up the #1 overall... it's the perfect draft to have it as well, whether we use it or trade it for a haul of picks. There are a lot more "Pros", however, that's the biggest one.

 

Not many 'Cons' when you're 0-5 and the Nats and Caps are tearing it up to keep us occupied

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3 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

I see plenty of folks on here say till snyder is out of the picture...well guess what..until hes out of the picture even draft picks are going to be botched

I don't think anyone is under the impression that anything Dan does will equate to success.  The hope is that he eventually lucks out.  With the current regime in place, it's certified fact that it's not successful.  So the hope is that maybe, and there's a slim chance, that he'll luck out and hire the right guy who will hire the right coach and work with him to draft and acquire the personnel that fits what he's trying to do.  Winning any games at this point is a fools errand, because it detracts from what really needs to happen.  

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Personally I could easily go for seeing the skins go 0-16 four years in a row just to see snyder pissed off..to see bruce get fired and if it meant getting snyder out of the picture faster..bring on the losses!!..

 

dont confuse that for me rooting for the skins to lose.. never have never will...prior to each game and through the game I root for the skins to win..but when they get there asses handed to them at games end I laugh and think haha **** you snyder!!

4 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

you have a lot less chance of ****ing up the #1 overall... it's the perfect draft to have it as well, whether we use it or trade it for a haul of picks. There are a lot more "Pros", however, that's the biggest one.

 

Not many 'Cons' when you're 0-5 and the Nats and Caps are tearing it up to keep us occupied

Well good for you locals..I ain't got **** here to fall back on..ok so we get the number one over all pick..and snyder ****s it all up...completely botches it..u lose..next?

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't think anyone is under the impression that anything Dan does will equate to success.  The hope is that he eventually lucks out.  With the current regime in place, it's certified fact that it's not successful.  So the hope is that maybe, and there's a slim chance, that he'll luck out and hire the right guy who will hire the right coach and work with him to draft and acquire the personnel that fits what he's trying to do.  Winning any games at this point is a fools errand, because it detracts from what really needs to happen.  

I've been waiting 20 frickin years for him to luck out...you still holding your hand over your ass??..u lose..next?

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7 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

I've been waiting 20 frickin years for him to luck out...you still holding your hand over your ass??..u lose..next?

Unfortunately, he's loyal to his primary lackey.  That's why it's important for the fire to burn as hot as it can to force his dumbass to do what should be obvious.  There is absolutely no guarantee he'll get it right the next time, but it's better than continuing on a path that is certain to go nowhere.

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1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Unfortunately, he's loyal to his primary lackey.  That's why it's important for the fire to burn as hot as it can to force his dumbass to do what should be obvious.  There is absolutely no guarantee he'll get it right the next time, but it's better than continuing on a path that is certain to go nowhere.

Only hope we have..and it is the only hope we have... someone who knows how a football team should be built puts a shovel up against Snyder's head and knock some sense into him into doing the right thing..but isn't dan stubborn..his way or the highway?....that's going to be difficult to change..that was better...keep trying bfs..

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31 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So the hope is that maybe, and there's a slim chance, that he'll luck out and hire the right guy who will hire the right coach and work with him to draft and acquire the personnel that fits what he's trying to do.

 

This is why I can't abandon hope and the team and start following and cheering for another.  Snyder has employed 2 buffoons as his GM/Personnel guys during his entire run as owner.  There is a slight chance that he lucks into hiring one that isn't an idiot failure.  

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7 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

This is why I can't abandon hope and the team and start following and cheering for another.  Snyder has employed 2 buffoons as his GM/Personnel guys during his entire run as owner.  There is a slight chance that he lucks into hiring one that isn't an idiot failure.  

This is where Daniel's stubbornness gets in the way...some dude comes in and says do it this way and you'll have success snyder says..huh do it your way pfff please hold this and watch me to continue to **** this up..

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Organizationally, they don't even have to try to tank. 

 

The offense has been noncompetitive, and they put all of their eggs into Case/Colt being adequate basket.  Not to mention the defense....Bottom line, the team has continually trotted out worse iterations of "last year's" team for ages, and is selling us on the idea that health, new pieces (and now new leadership at coach) will make it better.  It's not going to work. 

 

As long as the FO invests in this losing strategy, I'm going to hope they lose, because wins will be fleeting, anyway.  

 

If we lose enough, the fan base erodes enough, Snyder feels it in his pocket enough, and municipalities aren't lining up to host his stadium, something will have to change.  

 

I no longer care about a particular player, coach, FO guy, etc.  I just want to be able to tune in to watch good football.  I no longer spend money on the organization.  As an out of market fan, I am resigned to the fact that I can't realistically sell my kids on ever being fans (especially when they're old enough to recognize them being terrible).  

 

Only hope I have for this season is that we receive a draft pick commensurate with where this team really is, and we keep it.  And we pick the best player available at the slot.  Other than that, I have zero expectations of this team, especially on the field.    

 

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56 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

.so, seriously take a step back from the ledge and check your self and question your fan hood. 

 

I understand trying to rally the troops. It's a good effort and it comes from a good place. So I applaud your effort here and thank you for it, to be quite honest. It's nice to see those kinds of takes.

 

But don't do this. Because you still have hope doesn't make you more of a fan. It makes you a fan in a different place than others.

 

You kind of ruin the whole premise of your post by doing that...

 

But a feel good post that doesn't allow for negative thoughts is a fun idea.

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41 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Personally I could easily go for seeing the skins go 0-16 four years in a row just to see snyder pissed off..to see bruce get fired and if it meant getting snyder out of the picture faster..bring on the losses!!..

 

dont confuse that for me rooting for the skins to lose.. never have never will...prior to each game and through the game I root for the skins to win..but when they get there asses handed to them at games end I laugh and think haha **** you snyder!!

Well good for you locals..I ain't got **** here to fall back on..ok so we get the number one over all pick..and snyder ****s it all up...completely botches it..u lose..next?

I've been waiting 20 frickin years for him to luck out...you still holding your hand over your ass??..u lose..next?

 

Agree.  I always root for the Redskins to win regardless of their record.  However after the game is over I sometimes see the good in a loss or having a poor record (firing Gruden, potential firing of Allen, better pick, etc).  I would also equate the situation with Snyder & Allen to be similar to dealing with an addict or alcoholic.  They truly need to hit rock bottom for them to consider changes that will make the organization better in the long term. 

 

In the past 20 years the Redskins have had several very poor seasons,  but quite often they are followed by a season where they make the playoffs or come close.  This gives us a sense of false hope, and it is almost always followed by a very poor season.  Perhaps this team needs to have 3+ very poor seasons in a row.  I realize that this would be very difficult to endure but might be what  it takes to make truly effective changes (starting with canning Allen).  Oh well - won't happen - they will get just a spark of hope next season or the one thereafter, but unfortunately it will probably just ultimately result in 10+ more seasons of mediocrity - just enough minimal success for Allen & Snyder to keep pitching their snake oil  Sigh....

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9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I understand trying to rally the troops. It's a good effort and it comes from a good place. So I applaud your effort here and thank you for it, to be quite honest. It's nice to see those kinds of takes.

 

But don't do this. Because you still have hope doesn't make you more of a fan. It makes you a fan in a different place than others.

 

You kind of ruin the whole premise of your post by doing that...

 

But a feel good post that doesn't allow for negative thoughts is a fun idea.

It has nothing to do with rallying the troops man.. this isn't a trying to tell you how to live your life thread..I dont have hope..you really think I sat there typing that up thinking we have a shot still this year?..ur funny..u lose..next?

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I could never support tanking a season.

 

Despite our record and losing culture, there are still a lot of players on this team who want to compete and win. That sort of spirit is invaluable. By tanking, you're essentially telling them and their teammates to go out there, to risk getting injured for essentially nothing but a paycheck -- which in and of itself forces a strictly mammonistic atmosphere in the locker room that is poison to the success of any team.

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14 minutes ago, dicksogj said:

 

Agree.  I always root for the Redskins to win regardless of their record.  However after the game is over I sometimes see the good in a loss or having a poor record (firing Gruden, potential firing of Allen, better pick, etc).  I would also equate the situation with Snyder & Allen to be similar to dealing with an addict or alcoholic.  They truly need to hit rock bottom for them to consider changes that will make the organization better in the long term. 

 

In the past 20 years the Redskins have had several very poor seasons,  but quite often they are followed by a season where they make the playoffs or come close.  This gives us a sense of false hope, and it is almost always followed by a very poor season.  Perhaps this team needs to have 3+ very poor seasons in a row.  I realize that this would be very difficult to endure but might be what  it takes to make truly effective changes (starting with canning Allen).  Oh well - won't happen - they will get just a spark of hope next season or the one thereafter, but unfortunately it will probably just ultimately result in 10+ more seasons of mediocrity - just enough minimal success for Allen & Snyder to keep pitching their snake oil  Sigh....

Ding ding ding...we got a winner folks!!..THANK YOU!!

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16 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

It has nothing to do with rallying the troops man.. this isn't a trying to tell you how to live your life thread..I dont have hope..you really think I sat there typing that up thinking we have a shot still this year?..ur funny..u lose..next?


then what’s the point? Self therapy? I mean that works for me. 

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:


then what’s the point? Self therapy? I mean that works for me. 

To at least enjoy when 17,94,91,25,26, or any other players who dawn the burgundy and gold do anything positive 

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Oh FFS. Another tank thread?  The year I remember most was 2011 and people being disappointed we didnt tank enough to get Luck.  Where is he now? Wheres Griffin?

 

Let's be clear, as long as Bruce is making that pick, we might as well not have it.  We are well on our way to probably getting it without even trying, we should be trading down anyway because we dont have a second round pick.

 

Who is worth trading up to #1 for?  Wouldnt it be easier to trade down if the pick isn't too high?  Theres research into this especially in NBA where tanking is more common.  A good front office is more important then draft picks.  Because a good front office will have better chance of surrounding that pick with what it needs to win.  

 

Yall really trust "we're close" with what would essentially be an official rebuild?

Edited by Renegade7
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Since the passion is gone for a lot of fans, and the fanbase itself is logically getting smaller, tanking is actually ideal. Honestly, I'd be fine with a 2016-17, Cleveland-style 1-31 trainwreck. We lose out for a season or two, get the #1/#2 pick overall a couple of times, and then...

 

Losing out:

 

1) Bruce Allen will HAVE to have been fired by this point. There's NO WAY Snyder could make enough excuses to keep Allen around, since his departure is the only real hope there is for the team. So, we've already won by losing in this scenario.

 

2) By the end of the 1-2 seasons of (more) awful Redskins football, we will have shed many of the bad players/contracts that we have currently. Hopefully the new Pres/GM/HC will have worked out an actual plan for the franchise and plenty of cap space to make it work and Dan is able to STFU and let them work.

 

3) The haul of picks (with or without trades down, I'd prefer down as many times as reasonable) allows the new staff to build the team the way they see fit, while our current young players are growing into established leaders for the team. By this point (2022-ish) we should be in position for an extended period of good+ football, with real hopes of #championships.

 

Fighting hard for that participation trophy:

 

1) Regular 6-10 to 9-7 finishes, more mid-round picks and Bruce Allen mistakes, only occasional playoff runs, further erosion of the fanbase until FedEx is officially deemed a neutral-game site and the team store is changed to a league store. (okay, the last couple might not happen, but they might as well)

 

2) Fans getting to take the "moral high ground", while seeing only the short-term, BUT getting to condescend to other people about their "superior fanship".

 

So, whatever. Football is just entertainment and Washington Redskins football is no longer entertaining/fun. If being able to admit that and seeing the fastest way to correct it means I'm less of a fan than the next guy, so be it. Hopefully the next guy sleeps better at night, and also gets a fuller head of hair and a hotter spouse from their moral superiority.

 

#HTTR

Edited by tibbidoe
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A generational talent can change any franchise even when the owner is an asshat.  Wins will only hurt this team as we go forward, we have some good young core players but we desperately need a top 3 pick, I think it's our only hope in getting back to playing competitive football within the next 2 years.

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4 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

A generational talent can change any franchise even when the owner is an asshat.  Wins will only hurt this team as we go forward, we have some good young core players but we desperately need a top 3 pick, I think it's our only hope in getting back to playing competitive football within the next 2 years.

 

Andrew Luck?

 

By the time he finally got the front protection he desperately needed from the front office, his body/spirit was broken.

Edited by BurgundyBooger
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This isn't the NBA where the best player can carry a team of scrubs and yes man coach to the championship round three years in a row, 53 players on the roster.  Is there an example of tanking working in the NFL, and by working I mean intentuoannly losing for higher draft picks and then getting a super bowl out of it.  Saw Browns got creamed the other night because their pass protection is garbage, not the best example at all.

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2 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

 

Andrew Luck?

 

By the time he finally got the front protection he desperately needed from the front office, his body/spirit was broken.

Yeah we're up against it, we need a stud CB, QB (maybe Dwayne becomes that), and we will need at least 2 high-quality starters to replace Scherff and Trent, maybe we franchise Scherff to give us another year to build the line but even with that we still need to find a solid RT. 

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If we were tanking which we aren't, getting the 1st overall pick would allow us to get as much and even more than we paid for RG3. Trade it to the Fins for their 2 top 5 picks and select Andrew Thomas and Jerry Jeudy (or trade down) plus a second this year to compensate for the Sweat trade. I know it's not going to happen with dumb and dumbass.

Edited by FrFan
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