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13 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't care if Kyle goes 9-25 with 3 picks, that won't magically turn Dwayne into a less crappy QB.  

 

Yeah I don't really get some who defend Haskins by trying to go tit for tat with Kyle Allen.    It if anything brings home if Allen isn't that hot what does that say about Haskins?  It reminds me of Beck-Rex.  I think both are a peg higher than both dudes but neither one the solution IMO.  Like back then, elevating Beck over Rex or vice versa just brought home the sadness of the Qb situation as opposed to elevating either one of them

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5 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't care if Kyle goes 9-25 with 3 picks, that won't magically turn Dwayne into a less crappy QB.  

This is the key point in all this. It isn't about Allen and his suckage. Allen is a backup QB in this league. Its about Haskins' suckage. Right now he isn't even a backup quality QB in this league. His fundamentals, skills and knowledge are not near where they need to be to be able to take his lumps and grow like most first round QBs. He lacks the fundamental foundation. A product of one year playing on a college team that essentially goes unchallenged every week, dominating inferior teams.  Pursuing his growth as a starter on this team is a fool's errand.  If he corrects his apparent diva attitude, accepts his appropriate 3rd string status and works really hard for a few years, he could be a solid backup possibly. Not a bad life if you ask me. Is there a better job on the planet than NFL backup QB? You can do that for 15 years and never take a hit.

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I don't really get some who defend Haskins by trying to go tit for tat with Kyle Allen.    It if anything brings home if Allen isn't that hot what does that say about Haskins?  It reminds me of Beck-Rex.  I think both are a peg higher than both dudes but neither one the solution IMO.  Like back then, elevating Beck over Rex or vice versa just brought home the sadness of the Qb situation as opposed to elevating either one of them

 

Someone on the radio yesterday compared these 2 with Beck/Grossman.  Allen is obviously Grossman with the turnovers and Dwayne was like Beck, completely incompetent.  But as we all should know by now none of these players are starting NFL QBs

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39 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't care if Kyle goes 9-25 with 3 picks, that won't magically turn Dwayne into a less crappy QB.  

We just have to agree to disagree. If Allen starts putting up horrible numbers then I just want him out of there for that reason alone. Whether that means we turn to Smith, Haskins or Montez or somebody else is irrelivant. But If we turn to Haskins there is a chance he doesn't go 9/25 with 3 INTs. The thing is that we have 3 young QBs on this team and one old head. We need to be seeing what we have in these young guys to build for the future. 

 

We may have a Rex/Beck situation or we may have a Trent Green & Kirk Warner situation or a Gus Frerotte and Trent Green Situation. Heck it may be a Mariota and Tannehill situation but we don't know until we let it play out. And if we just refuse to play a guy because we don't like him we're hurting our team. If (as you think) Haskins has no shot at anything, and Ron believes this he should just cut him and bring somebody else in here because he's wasting the young man's time. Haskins could go somewhere where he is wanted and where they're willing to try to develop him rather than just leaking out information about why he's at odds with players and coaches. 

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27 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Someone on the radio yesterday compared these 2 with Beck/Grossman.  Allen is obviously Grossman with the turnovers and Dwayne was like Beck, completely incompetent.  But as we all should know by now none of these players are starting NFL QBs

 

I think they are both bottom rung starters, Campbell, Ramsey types but more suited to be backups.  I think they both will have an occasional hot game like any marginal starter but by and large "meh"

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Benjamin Solak's tweet reads like some of the posts on this forum.  🤣

 

Ron is trying to instill a culture change in the organization.  What would it say about him to continue trotting Dwayne out there if he's not the first and last in the building and on the practice field?  So you can parse his words to the media until you're blue in the face but it won't change the fact that Dwayne clearly wasn't putting in the work necessary.  He can have all the intangibles and potential in the world (which I'd argue he doesn't) but if Alex Smith is beating him to the park in the morning, that's a problem.  One would think that even if Dwayne didn't 'want' to put in that much work, he would simply for what the perception is.

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5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 

Rivera was committed to Haskins. Something significant changed that. Whether that was a complete drop off the cliff scenario with Haskins attitude and application we don’t know. Heck, it’s all gone very quiet, even from Haskins. There has to have been a major breach of trust involved, in my opinion.
 

For new head coach Ron Rivera, naming Haskins the starter reminded him of a situation he was in with the Carolina Panthers when he was a rookie head coach. Rivera had to choose between Jimmy Clausen, Derek Anderson or rookie Cam Newton as his new starting quarterback. He ended up going with the former No. 1 overall pick, and it was a decision that eventually took him to the Super Bowl and won him AP NFL Coach of the Year twice. Rivera decided to ride with his youth, and it paid dividends. 

"I made a commitment 10 years ago to another young quarterback and just told him: 'Hey, you know what, I'm choosing you because I believe in you,'" Rivera said, via ESPN's John Keim. "That's really how I feel about Dwayne. He's lived up to his part of our conversation in January. Because of that, I'm living up to mine.

"He deserves the opportunity. He's going to get my support. Hopefully we can ride it as long as I rode it with Cam. You want to be able to have that guy and have that guy in place."

 

It's clear now in hindsight that he was lying when he said this.  This is what I think happened:

 

- Rivera really wanted this job.  He failed up by taking it.  Nobody else would have given him anywhere close to this much power.

- Rivera misled Snyder about his interest in working with Haskins and Kevin O'Connell during the interview process in order to make sure he got the job.

- Rivera promptly moved on from O'Connell after a token interview process and brought in his guy in Scott Turner.

- Rivera then promptly traded for Kyle Allen because Allen is Turner's guy.

- Rivera then promptly benched Haskins for Allen after a nonsensical, token evaluation process full of little games and tests that no coach genuinely interested in developing a player would ever do.

 

Rivera has been playing little power games since he got here, to assert his control over the team and get all of his own guys in here.  It's been to the detriment of the team and many of the players who were here, particularly Haskins.  He's probably alienating ownership already.  He'll have carte balnche for this season, but if he doesn't start winning next year I bet he'll get fired.

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7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This still assumes that the Haskins benching was due just to poor play. I don't think many people actually believe that's true anymore. 

What I'm still waiting for is a motive as to why Rivera would bench him, make him 3rd string, 'slander' and 'scapegoat' Haskins.  As if Rivera is coaching for his job or something, the dude just got here 10 months ago.  Even if I was one of the guys who really liked Haskins as a prospect, I'd have a hard time pinning this on Rivera being either an idiot or a spiteful prick, as there is nothing in his history to suggest that is the case.  And he'd have to be one of if not both of those things to do what he did to Haskins without having valid reasons to do so.

 

EDIT:

 

As you can see above, we're now at conspiracy theories as to why Haskins is where he is vs. you know, the plethora of information out there that supports what took place.  My lord.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What I'm still waiting for is a motive as to why Rivera would bench him, make him 3rd string, 'slander' and 'scapegoat' Haskins.  As if Rivera is coaching for his job or something, the dude just got here 10 months ago.  Even if I was one of the guys who really liked Haskins as a prospect, I'd have a hard time pinning this on Rivera being either an idiot or a spiteful prick, as there is nothing in his history to suggest that is the case.  And he'd have to be one of if not both of those things to do what he did to Haskins without having valid reasons to do so.

 

Aside from all the love and hate in this thread, there is a logical explanation that he said in the Friday press conference after the benching. They have two other QBs on the roster with NFL experience - Allen and Smith. Haskins is still raw and he feels that Allen can get more out of the offense. Ideally he probably thinks Smith is the best option for the offense but he's coming back from the injury and there are questions about his readyness. 

 

I've said that Allen has not looked horrible in his play. I don't comment on things like missed plays and accuracy or touch on passes. In some sense its like the Tyson quote, "everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth" and these critiques are all nice and good but when you've got a bum shoulder / arm and you've been hit a few times already or even if you just want to make sure you get the first down, I can understand going for the more sure thing in a checkdown instead of a more risky throw. That said, I think its the same thing that Haskins was doing.

 

We can talk about QBR but I think his QBR is high only because we had no running game and didn't even try to run the ball which meant that Allen had to do something every play just about. He didn't make any stellar plays. There were two nice fade routes but they were of 5 and 22 yards. The 22 yarder is a somewhat big play but its not the kind of thing that makes the highlight reel. 

 

I've said that I'm interested in seeing if Haskins becomes the number 2 again or if Smith looks good in his second stint of duty. Thats something that I'm keeping an eye on (one of the few things). I don't buy all the scapegoat narratives of practice habits and all the leaks. Ron defended him one day and then benched him on Wednesday, so something happened between that defense adn the benching. Whether that something is what leads to his departure, we'll see. But if Ron is really that fed up with him he needs to just let him go. Please don't let Ron be another Bruce who needs to prove points to players and make them ride the bench instead of trading them for whatever we can get. 

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1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

Please don't let Ron be another Bruce who needs to prove points to players and make them ride the bench instead of trading them for whatever we can get. 

I don't really look at it that way with Dwayne.  I would imagine Ron treated this as a challenge for Haskins, is he going to go into a shell and whine or take it as a challenge?  And if he does take it as a challenge and put in the work, will he continue to do so if he gets another shot?

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41 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What I'm still waiting for is a motive as to why Rivera would bench him, make him 3rd string, 'slander' and 'scapegoat' Haskins.  As if Rivera is coaching for his job or something, the dude just got here 10 months ago.  Even if I was one of the guys who really liked Haskins as a prospect, I'd have a hard time pinning this on Rivera being either an idiot or a spiteful prick, as there is nothing in his history to suggest that is the case.  And he'd have to be one of if not both of those things to do what he did to Haskins without having valid reasons to do so.

 

EDIT:

 

As you can see above, we're now at conspiracy theories as to why Haskins is where he is vs. you know, the plethora of information out there that supports what took place.  My lord.

 

Eh, I can't understand how anyone can have watched the nonsensical way Rivera has handled the QB position since he got here and still take everything he's said at face value.  Still have total faith in his honesty or competence.

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1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

We just have to agree to disagree. If Allen starts putting up horrible numbers then I just want him out of there for that reason alone. Whether that means we turn to Smith, Haskins or Montez or somebody else is irrelivant. But If we turn to Haskins there is a chance he doesn't go 9/25 with 3 INTs. The thing is that we have 3 young QBs on this team and one old head. We need to be seeing what we have in these young guys to build for the future. 

 

We may have a Rex/Beck situation or we may have a Trent Green & Kirk Warner situation or a Gus Frerotte and Trent Green Situation. Heck it may be a Mariota and Tannehill situation but we don't know until we let it play out. And if we just refuse to play a guy because we don't like him we're hurting our team. If (as you think) Haskins has no shot at anything, and Ron believes this he should just cut him and bring somebody else in here because he's wasting the young man's time. Haskins could go somewhere where he is wanted and where they're willing to try to develop him rather than just leaking out information about why he's at odds with players and coaches. 

 

Ron has no obligation to cut Haskins. He is holding on to him perhaps as trade value and in case the other 2 get hurt.  

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54 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This still assumes that the Haskins benching was due just to poor play. I don't think many people actually believe that's true anymore. 

 

I believe he was benched because his poor play. The quick hook and demotion to 3rd string inactive was probably due to his inability to work on fixing his poor play. He's a really bad quarterback, it's hard to justify playing someone that bad.

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1 minute ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

I believe he was benched because his poor play. The quick hook and demotion to 3rd string inactive was probably due to his inability to work on fixing his poor play. He's a really bad quarterback, it's hard to justify playing someone that bad.

 

Prezactly. Obviously if he had played better he'd probably still be starting. I agree with you the benching was for poor play, the demotion to inactive was to send a message with regard to effort.  

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I can’t, for the life of me, understand why so many people overlook the immaturity stuff when discussing Haskins.

 

I was on board with Haskins playing all year, but Haskins helped to bury himself if all the reports are even half true. 
 

Why is that not coming up with any of these posts? It’s all strictly about play. Given the information given, the visual sample size on his demeanor and body language, the agent tweet, one could deduce, logically and with an educated guess (were not in house so it’s hard to pass anything on as reality) that the reason for Haskins being benched was due to factors other than play. 
 

Further evidence of that is going from #1 to possibly 4 given the reps given during practice (but back to 3 on the depth chart).

 

To ignore that is really an odd position. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Eh, I can't understand how anyone can have watched the nonsensical way Rivera has handled the QB position since he got here and still take everything he's said at face value.  Still have total faith in his honesty or competence.

I believe Rivera was handed a nonsensical QB situation in the weirdest offseason the NFL has seen maybe ever.  I don't put a lot of stock into what Rivera is saying to the media in the first place.   I've never had total faith in anything about Rivera.  Where we agree is on organizational structure.  I'm not a big fan of the head coach being the end all-be all.  I prefer a traditional org structure where the GM hires the coach and they work together on building the team.  That said, I do like Rivera and nothing about his resume or reputation as a football player or coach in the league leads me to believe that he's dishonest, vindictive or spiteful, all of which he'd have to be if he's conspired to ruin Haskins.  I think he saw this year for what it is, a rebuilding year in which he'll get to see what he has on his roster.  I believe he pumped Haskins up to build his confidence, liked what he saw in the offseason, and wanted to give him a chance to take it and run with it.  I believe things were not trending in the direction he expected, along with a bunch of other stuff we'll probably never be privy to, and that inevitably led to him benching Haskins.  I don't believe he conspired to set him up to fail all the while Dwayne was relentlessly working hard on his craft, because that makes no sense.

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

To ignore that is really an odd position. 

I don't think it's so much being ignored as it is being insinuated that Ron conspired to expose Haskins and slander him because he doesn't like him.  Which to me is just way out in left field.

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55 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's clear now in hindsight that he was lying when he said this.  This is what I think happened:

 

- Rivera really wanted this job.  He failed up by taking it.  Nobody else would have given him anywhere close to this much power.

- Rivera misled Snyder about his interest in working with Haskins and Kevin O'Connell during the interview process in order to make sure he got the job.

- Rivera promptly moved on from O'Connell after a token interview process and brought in his guy in Scott Turner.

- Rivera then promptly traded for Kyle Allen because Allen is Turner's guy.

- Rivera then promptly benched Haskins for Allen after a nonsensical, token evaluation process full of little games and tests that no coach genuinely interested in developing a player would ever do.

 

Rivera has been playing little power games since he got here, to assert his control over the team and get all of his own guys in here.  It's been to the detriment of the team and many of the players who were here, particularly Haskins.  He's probably alienating ownership already.  He'll have carte balnche for this season, but if he doesn't start winning next year I bet he'll get fired.

 

Literally none of this is "clear" at all. It's complete conjecture based on a obviously biased viewpoint. 

 

So Rivera has now essentially become Football Machiavelli in your mind; a guy who sits around hatching dastardly convoluted schemes all with the intent of...making Dwayne Haskins look bad? How long has he been dreaming these capers up do you think?

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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I can’t, for the life of me, understand why so many people overlook the immaturity stuff when discussing Haskins.

 

I was on board with Haskins playing all year, but Haskins helped to bury himself if all the reports are even half true. 
 

Why is that not coming up with any of these posts? It’s all strictly about play. Given the information given, the visual sample size on his demeanor and body language, the agent tweet, one could deduce, logically and with an educated guess (were not in house so it’s hard to pass anything on as reality) that the reason for Haskins being benched was due to factors other than play. 
 

Further evidence of that is going from #1 to possibly 4 given the reps given during practice (but back to 3 on the depth chart).

 

To ignore that is really an odd position. 
 

 

 

I often choose to not go down path of making theories and certainly not any conclusions based on reports by the media. Admittedly, this leads me to being late to the party when the media is right. 

Haskins was being touted for his hard work all off season both physically and mentally (activity in Zoom meetings) by the media, then in 3-4 weeks time that was buried by the same media. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I won’t base my theories and opinions on these reports. 
 

A theory I do have is the team is leaking information to support whichever direction they’re headed in, whether starting Haskins or benching Haskins, the stories have and continue to support such moves. Could these reports of him not working be true? 100%. I’ll wait a bit and let emotions and the ego of both sides settle and see what rises to top. 

 

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1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 

 

 

I often choose to not go down path of making theories and certainly not any conclusions based on reports by the media. Admittedly, this leads me late to being late to the party when the media is right. 

 

 

Same. But, the body language, tweets and other items big time lead credence to reports.

 

That's why I buy in more to the reports.

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24 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This still assumes that the Haskins benching was due just to poor play. I don't think many people actually believe that's true anymore. 

 

Yep.  There is two mega factors here that pretty much goes completely ignored by the Haskins has been wronged faction.  

 

A. This was Dan Snyder's pick.  That's been validated from just about everywhere.  It's not just Rivera as a variable here.  The previous coaching staff didn't want him and ditto Kyle Smith and scouts in that building according to multiple sources.

 

B. All the questions about the intangibles coming from a zillion places.  This point is either ignored or shot down as it all being false or character assisination. 

 

It's sort of like the expression that some use outside of what happened to your husband, how was the play Mrs Lincoln?  To me the Haskins have been wronged crowd are picking up the plot as if the assisination didn't happen or was a minor at best influence on Mrs Lincoln's enjoyment of the play.  Lets act like more people in that building wanted Haskins besides Dan or lets give Dan a pass and say its OK for him to override the personnel department, no biggie at all.  And Keim and all these reporters are on some wild witch hunt against Haskins and are just making things up for kicks. 

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Just now, KDawg said:

Same. But, the body language, tweets and other items big time lead credence to reports.

 

you can say that but as long as nobody is putting their name behind it there is nobody to blame if tomorrow Ron or Kyle or Scott comes out and says all these reports are false. Rhiannon Walker said that she couldn't verify those rumors and didn't want to speculate on them. We say all the time that scouts get things wrong and they're lucky if they get 3/7 or whatever. Batters are lucky if they hit 1/3 or 3/10. QBs are lucky if they hit 6/10 or 7/10. I'm just saying I don't expect reporters, even the best reporters to be hitting 100%, especially when it comes to leaks. 

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