FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

He played like 18 minutes of football while his defense was getting shredded.  I think it's rather hard to take anything away from his performance, outside of he appeared more competent than Haskins and needs to protect himself better.

 

When HASN'T this defense been getting shredded? That's not something that suddenly occurred in the Rams game. Haskins (and Smith) had to deal with that, too.

 

And there are a number of things you can take away from Allen's performance. What you may not be able to take away from it are Allen's long-term prospects.

[ExoDus84]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

The criticisms at the time, though, focused on Haskins' mediocrity forcing Turner to dumb-down the playcalling to only the most simple throws and reads.

 

Turner/Rivera have both mentioned Haskins' inability to learn the offense. Them simplifying the playbook, and Haskins constantly throwing short, is probably a product of that. On Sunday, Smith/Allen also throwing exclusively short was probably a factor of the putrid play by the OL, combined with rain and inexperienced/rusty QB's. Maybe it was also part of the game plan, though we as fans will never know if that's the case or not.

 

Whatever the case, up to this point in the season, none of our QB's have been good. Clearly.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Alright, so if you're going to dismiss all the sources, including credible ones that have no reason to lie about Dwayne Haskins stomic virus, feel free. I wonder what it's like to be that naive, lol.

 

How is what I said "dismissing all the sources"? I acknowledged them. If anything you're dismissing sources that do NOT mention stomach virus. I acknowledge both.

[Thinking Skins]

4 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

Though, I'll admit to being shocked at how inept the offense was, regardless of the circumstances. It was flat out putrid. Just unwatchable.

I will say it wasn't unwatchable until Smith came in. He really reminded me of John Beck getting sacked against Jacksonville. In my opinion there is no reason for him to be getting playing time ahead of Haskins. Eventually coaches will see that. Either they will be stubborn and keep Haskins as number 3 or realize their error and move Haskins to number 2. 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

But did the OLine hold up well because Haskins was getting the ball out quickly? We saw the stat saying that Haskins performed best when he had less than 2.5 seconds to throw. 

Absolutely Haskins quick release helped with that line. No doubt about it.

 

2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

The criticisms at the time, though, focused on Haskins' mediocrity forcing Turner to dumb-down the playcalling to only the most simple throws and reads.

 

Most people I’ve seen have been saying the play calling was predicated on Haskins skill set and the offensive line’s... uhhh... abilities. 
 

Im actually not sure how much better Haskins would be with a ton of time. He operates best when he doesn’t overthink it. Of course the run game suffers in that case

 

Another top tier receiving targets and he could probably be an okay QB if the offense is consistent and allows for a few shots down field. 
 

But I think he absolutely limits what can be done. But so does the line. And receivers.
 

[JSSkinz]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

I will give that Haskins isn't normally as accurate, especially to RBs, but he threw a 50 yarder to Gibson last week that he should have taken to the house. 

That's fair and just for disclosure you wont find any posts of me saying Haskins should have been benched, I was quite surprised when I heard the news but there has to be a good reason.

 

Its very hard for me to believe Dwayne was benched due to his play in 4 games this year or his inaccuracy, its gotta be something else and who knows when we will find out, probably not until he moves to another team.

 

 

[IrepDC]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I just haven't seen anyone talking about how great Allen is/was or that he did anything that would constitute as great.  That's the thing with Dwayne, it wasn't that he wasn't great, it's that he misses pedestrian stuff that should never be missed.  Allen didn't do that, so in essence he can still look clearly better for the brief time he was on the field, and that really mean not much at all.

Semantics. Okay let's say the word "great" wasn't used. I'm still struggling to see how 1.8 yards per attempt could impress anyone other than those with confirmation bias. Allen did miss a couple of those pedestrian throws too by the way. It was the best game the Rams defense played in 40 years and one of the worst offensive games in 50 years. The one drive Allen led was kept alive by that penalty. I can't give anyone on our offense credit after that game. 

[SoCalSkins]

A 5 day illness would require medical supervision for a professional athlete in the NFL.  This is all a farce. He came in to do the covid test so he stays in protocol so they can trade him. 

[Spearfeather]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm not. I'm saying that Allen and Haskins have different ways of dealing with this OL. Allen has escapability. Haskins has a quick release. Haskins played against Fletcher Cox, Miles Garrett, and Chandler Jones. Its not like he was going against scrubs. But we saw his quick release come into play. Not saying that its better than Allen's legs but different ways of dealing with the pass rush. 

 

That quick release would also lead to balls sailing over receivers heads, though.

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

A 5 day illness would require medical supervision for a professional athlete in the NFL.  This is all a farce. He came in to do the covid test so he stays in protocol so they can trade him. 

 

I bet his agent Mulugheta is advising him to do this. Bc if there is a trade, it will be something Mulugheta cooks up.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

When HASN'T this defense been getting shredded? That's not something that suddenly occurred in the Rams game. Haskins (and Smith) had to deal with that, too.

 

And there are a number of things you can take away from Allen's performance. What you may not be able to take away from it are Allen's long-term prospects.

I get it - the defense hasn't been great at all sans the Philly game.  But they were Manusky/Barry/Haslett-esque particularly in the early part of the ball game when Allen was in.  That's the only reason I brought it up.

 

But I still don't see how much you can take away from Allen's performance - good or bad, given it was a fraction over a quarter of football.

[ggarriso]

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

A 5 day illness would require medical supervision for a professional athlete in the NFL.  This is all a farce. He came in to do the covid test so he stays in protocol so they can trade him. 

 

This. I cant believe this is not being discussed more - either he has a major medical situation (hope not) or else he is coming in and saying "my tummy still hurts" knowing the doctors will send him home.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, ggarriso said:

 

This. I cant believe this is not being discussed more - either he has a major medical situation (hope not) or else he is coming in and saying "my tummy still hurts" knowing the doctors will send him home.  

Right, there is either something bad going on with him health-wise (least likely) or some BS (most likely).  I say least likely that he has a real health problem, because it would seem that if he truly had a real health issue, simply leaving the park and going home isn't going to cure it.

[Cooleyfan1993]

7 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I will say it wasn't unwatchable until Smith came in. He really reminded me of John Beck getting sacked against Jacksonville.

You mean the bills? That was the game he got sacked what, 10 times?? i dont think we played the jaguars in 2011 (John becks lone season on the team)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

Turner/Rivera have both mentioned Haskins' inability to learn the offense. Them simplifying the playbook, and Haskins constantly throwing short, is probably a product of that. On Sunday, Smith/Allen also throwing exclusively short was probably a factor of the putrid play by the OL, combined with rain and inexperienced/rusty QB's. Maybe it was also part of the game plan, though we as fans will never know if that's the case or not.

 

Whatever the case, up to this point in the season, none of our QB's have been good. Clearly.

 

Same putrid play by the OLine when Haskins was behind center, though. And if it was the rain, then we should have at least seen longer pass attempts by Allen before the rain became a real factor. We didn't see any lol...11 yards was the longest pass attempt.

 

I had said before that going short-attempts can help get a QB (and offense) into a rhythm so it's not just because the QB can't do anything more. maybe part of it was Turner trying to get Allen into a rhythm along with putrid OLine play and facing a nasty defense--same combination of factors as the week before with Haskins and the Ravens, so similar game plans.

[Number 44]

13 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So unless I’m missing something, you listed all position groups except for DL and RB. I’d argue RB is “ok” but nothing special yet.  Gibson might develop.  
 

So we have a good DL,

 

You need more than that to win games.

And punter.  Don't forget punter.  We have a good punter.

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

I had said before that going short-attempts can help get a QB (and offense) into a rhythm so it's not just because the QB can't do anything more. maybe part of it was Turner trying to get Allen into a rhythm along with putrid OLine play and facing a nasty defense--same combination of factors as the week before with Haskins and the Ravens, so similar game plans.

I've always been a fan of the short passing game in this new NFL because it helps a QBs confidence and even if you ask Galdi, when you talk about yards per attempt even a measly 4 yards per attempt which is horrible for most QBs is better than most RBs get on their yards per carry. Now this isn't quite accurate because YPA doesn't take into account sacks and interceptions and penalties and stuff, but still that gives you a good thing. 

 

Plus the short passes open the field up horizontally (throwing to different area) and then when everybody is playing those short passes you open up the deep game. Last year we saw Hasking throwing more deep balls (15-25) to Harmon. It seems like that part of our game has gone away so we are either throwing it under 10 or the few 30+ yarders

[Califan007 The Constipated]

11 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

A 5 day illness would require medical supervision for a professional athlete in the NFL.  This is all a farce. He came in to do the covid test so he stays in protocol so they can trade him. 

 

Why are we assuming the team doctors aren't providing that when they send him home? We are still treating it as if he called up Ron right before practice and said 'Yeah, dude, I'm still (cough sneeze) not feeling too good (cough sniff)"...

 

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Seems to me like the team is just being extremely cautious with this, with rivera being immunocompromised due to his cancer/cancer treatments. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

28 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Lol yall always trying to bait me into these semantic debates. I quoted someone claiming Allen showed clearly better accuracies with his less than 2 yards per attempt. 

We saw Dwayne miss those short throws to backs constantly in his starts.  Allen didn't do that.  This is not difficult.  Then there is the running.  Posters have yet to discuss my point there, he escaped a huge sack and ran for a TD, two plays Haskins has proven he can't make.  They don't seem to want to addreas this point because they have no response.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I've always been a fan of the short passing game in this new NFL because it helps a QBs confidence and even if you ask Galdi, when you talk about yards per attempt even a measly 4 yards per attempt which is horrible for most QBs is better than most RBs get on their yards per carry. Now this isn't quite accurate because YPA doesn't take into account sacks and interceptions and penalties and stuff, but still that gives you a good thing. 

 

Plus the short passes open the field up horizontally (throwing to different area) and then when everybody is playing those short passes you open up the deep game. Last year we saw Hasking throwing more deep balls (15-25) to Harmon. It seems like that part of our game has gone away so we are either throwing it under 10 or the few 30+ yarders

 

Also helps to tire a DLine early having them run east and west play after play...I remember Gibbs doing this against the Jags in 2006 and the play by play guys were saying that

Gibbs respected the Jags' DTs (or NT if they ran a 3-4 lol) and wanted them gassed early in the game.

 

I'm with you on the short passing game by the way...some fans ridicule it like they ridicule the term "game manager", but I see a lot of value in both.

[Thinking Skins]

Just comparing some more numbers from last year (particularly on target since in the game Allen was 90% on target). Last year Allen was 76.2% on target and Haskins was 74% on target. Obviously thats last year but over a much larger sample size. But I don't see the real improvement in Allen's general accuracy. 

 

Wow, and last year Haskins had more yards per scramble. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Seems to me like the team is just being extremely cautious with this, with rivera being immunocompromised due to his cancer/cancer treatments. 

 

That aspect of Rivera continuing to coach right now always concerned me 😐...seriously hope the dude is taking every and all precautions.

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Seems to me like the team is just being extremely cautious with this, with rivera being immunocompromised due to his cancer/cancer treatments. 

 

Could be.  But it also seems like they're intentionally trying to keep him away from the team.  This feels like the prelude to a trade.

[IrepDC]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

We saw Dwayne miss those short throws to backs constantly in his starts.  Allen didn't do that.  This is not difficult.  Then there is the running.  Posters have yet to discuss my point there, he escaped a huge sack and ran for a TD, two plays Haskins has proven he can't make.  They don't seem to want to addreas this point because they have no response.

I think most already agree Allen is more mobile. Haskins was always a pocket QB even with his weight loss so there's no point debating there. 

 

As far as the accuracy goes, I'll wait to see more from Allen. We weigh those -5 to 5 yard passes differently, and that's fine. I.e. if Allen isn't hitting those mid ranged digs like Haskins was or more accurate on those deep throws than Haskins, those slightly more accurate 1 yard flat throws aren't impressive.