FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Riggo#44]

Quote

"It’s interesting because we went through training camp and gave him every rep with the [first team] in terms of trying to develop him and get him ready to go. Through the four games we didn’t see what we were looking for. I made the decision to go forward with Kyle [Allen] and Alex [Smith]," the coach said. 

Its almost as if he was going what was required to keep the job. Funny that.

[pico926]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

This is ABSOLUTELY false. People did NOT think LB was a hole. I would know, I was battling them daily. People thought we were okay at backer and could improve it but it wasn't a hole. Corner was far worse in most people's minds.

Your joking right? So you were battling people that Bostic, Dion Hamilton (currently doesn't see the field), Holcomb (currently doesn't see the field) and a hope and a prayer with Rueben Foster being ready was okay. Well I guess you, Jack, and Ron saw it the same but results are proving otherwise. 

[megared]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

He gave Haskins a chance. If he didn't, people would be complaining still. He wasn't winning unless he gave Haskins the chance and Haskins became a franchise level QB. I don't think he has any chance of doing that in DC, and probably in the league. But a fresh start changes a LOT. If he's going to do it, it isn't here.

 

Had he adequately stocked the team with pro talent,  he would've never been under the illusion that Haskins was ready. That's his assessment process and indecisiveness that led us here

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

We were talking about how much "Haskins has set this franchise back" yesterday.  If you're telling me a safety was our opportunity cost, that's not setting the franchise back, like, at all.

 

And no, the Hopkins trade happened between two good friends in O'Brien and Keim.  He was getting offered better compensation elsewhere, and still did the deal with his buddy, similar to the RGIII deal with Fisher and Shanny.  

 

Not that Ron would have done the deal regardless in his "evaluation year".  It would have been too late when his mind changed that we should be in "win now" mode.

 

I missed people saying that Haskins himself set the franchise back I guess. That's not true. While he has done himself no favors, Snyder made the pick. I find it hard to blame a 21 year old for a franchise's failures. Especially when there is so much wrong with the franchise. 

[pico926]

1 minute ago, pico926 said:

Your joking right? So you were battling people that Bostic, Dion Hamilton (currently doesn't see the field), Holcomb (currently doesn't see the field) and a hope and a prayer with Rueben Foster being ready was okay. Well I guess you, Jack, and Ron saw it the same but results are proving otherwise. 

My mistake. Misread your post. You should not have been arguing with others on this. It was evident.

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

We were talking about how much "Haskins has set this franchise back" yesterday.  If you're telling me a safety was our opportunity cost, that's not setting the franchise back, like, at all.

Well, Haskins busting and not having even a half-way decent player in return, and not having to watch Apke, is an improvement, isn't it?

 

What else was Obrien offered?

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, pico926 said:

Your joking right? So you were battling people that Bostic, Dion Hamilton (currently doesn't see the field), Holcomb (currently doesn't see the field) and a hope and a prayer with Rueben Foster being ready was okay. Well I guess you, Jack, and Ron saw it the same but results are proving otherwise. 

 

EDIT Saw the addendum.

[justice98]

12 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Ron should realize his problems are a lot bigger than Haskins right now. He has a defense who can't stop the run, cover over the middle, or cover deep. His DBs look lost every week. His LBs keep getting abused by WRs but we keep leaving them in coverage. Our OL is terrible. Our WRs are running routes into each other. We are averaging under 3 yards per carry in the run game. We haven't managed the clock well or in game situations well. Then without the guy he claimed was holding the offense back, we had the worst offensive game in 50 years. 

 

Rivera has a lot more to be concerned with than a QB who everyone knew needed time to develop.

 

Developing isn't a given.  But yeah, the book on Haskins coming out was he needed time to develop, but that doesn't mean that Rivera has to go along with it. If he doesn't think Haskins has it, why does he have to sit around and do what miscellaneous people thought was necessary pre-draft about a QB he didn't pick? 

 

A lot of QBs come out that need development, they don't all have all this hand wringing to go along with it.  A lot of QBs in this game need a lot of reps and starts and never get it.  All of this is really because he was overdrafted and went 15th.  If he'd have gone in the 2nd rd, maybe folks wouldnt be so quick to hold on for dear life.

 

I don't think he doesn't know that his problems are bigger.  At these other positions, there aren't a whole lot of choices to go to.  At safety, who are you gonna turn to?  At LB, at OL.  They all stink.  I'd take my chances with Allen at QB over the backups at those other positions. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Three among the most active posters on the draft thread were thumbs down on Haskins.  It doesn't mean we are right either nor are we QB scouting experts clearly.   But bottom line is Haskins wasn't a universally loved prospect whether it is on the board, whether it was with scouts who have been quoted about him (I posted much of that on this thread-- via the Bob MGinn's reports) and even among the media talking heads.  This wasn't Andrew Luck Part 2.  Plenty had red flags about the dude.  The dude dropped to #15 for a reason.  No one traded up for him.  Keim posted recently that Haskins might have fallen to the 2nd round if the WFT didn't take him, he's far from alone with that take.

 

If Haskins doesn't work out -- you aren't going to see 30-30 ESPN special years later about how did it go wrong, its not going to be any big surprise.  No big deal. 

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

They believed SDH, Foster, KPL and Holcomb were a good linebacking corps.

I definitely bought into the SDH hype. Here's been the worst player on our defense. Holcomb is suffering from a knee injury? He can't possibly be worse

1 minute ago, justice98 said:

Developing isn't a given.  But yeah, the book on Haskins coming out was he needed time to develop, but that doesn't mean that Rivera has to go along with it. If he doesn't think Haskins has it, why does he have to sit around and do what miscellaneous people thought was necessary pre-draft about a QB he didn't pick? 

Well, there's that thing about effort and all.

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

Well, Haskins busting and not having even a half-way decent player in return, and not having to watch Apke, is an improvement, isn't it?

 

I forgot to add, with Kyle Smith's history with 2nd round picks, I'm not sure how anyone can say we missed out on anything with any certainty.

 

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

What else was Obrien offered?

 

That's just what I remember hearing at the time.  I don't have the details.

[JSSkinz]

2 minutes ago, pico926 said:

So having 16 weeks worth of game film is not enough to evaluate players and figure out what you have and don't have. I'm not buying that. Overrated? The defense stunk last year so who had them rated so high going into this season? Failed to address plain and simple. 

In a 3-4 defense as opposed to a 4-3 and I think every coach wants to make their own determination through what they see in person.  Of course they look at film Ron talks about looking at film of Haskins from last year but I think you take that into the season and use the games to further make your determination, that's happening right now.

 

Who knows who they think is or isn't good, we could see massive turnover after this year.

 

But this whole narrative that we have a great defense needs to stop, its fake, there's nothing to back it up besides 2 bookend pass rushers.

[justice98]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I missed people saying that Haskins himself set the franchise back I guess. That's not true. While he has done himself no favors, Snyder made the pick. I find it hard to blame a 21 year old for a franchise's failures. Especially when there is so much wrong with the franchise. 

 

 There's a lot of hyperbole going around about what "people were saying" about Haskins.  

[pico926]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

I definitely bought into the SDH hype. Here's been the worst player on our defense. Holcomb is suffering from a knee injury? He can't possibly be worse

Looks like Ron and Jack bought into it as well. Holcomb is just as bad. We saw it last year. Film doesn't lie. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

We were talking about how much "Haskins has set this franchise back" yesterday.  If you're telling me a safety was our opportunity cost, that's not setting the franchise back, like, at all.

 

Following the plot line, my take isn't so much Haskins is setting the franchise back.  It's that they don't think he is good.   And perhaps just as important they don't think he's good for the culture they are trying to build.   

 

Going back to my relationship analogy, you can break up with someone without having the next killer relationship lined up.    It's healthy to break up a bad relationship versus just sticking it out when you know it's not ending in marriage or its a miserable ride or whatever

 

 

[justice98]

1 minute ago, pico926 said:

Looks like Ron and Jack bought into it as well. Holcomb is just as bad. We saw it last year. Film doesn't lie. 

 

I would take Holcomb as a depth piece and occasional spot starter, but I don't need him as the full time starter.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I forgot to add, with Kyle Smith's history with 2nd round picks, I'm not sure how anyone can say we missed out on anything with any certainty.

 

Maybe he would have traded down to the third round, a round where he's killed it.  😄

 

Hopefully the lesson here is for Dan, he needs to stop thinking he's a scout because not only is he atrocious at it, but his interference messes with the FO and coaching staff in obvious bad ways.  

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Following the plot line, my take isn't so much Haskins is setting the franchise back.  It's that they don't think he is good.   And as important they don't think he's good for the culture they are trying to build.   

 

Going back to my relationship analogy, you can break up with someone without having the next killer relationship lined up.    It's healthy to break up a bad relationship versus just sticking it out when you know it's not ending in marriage or its a miserable ride or whatever

 

As someone who just got married less than 3 weeks ago, I can say that sometimes it's healthy to break up, re-evaluate, and see if you're truly meant to be together long-term and how much each side is willing to work at the relationship in order to make that a reality.

 

We're likely beyond that here, due to all the damaging leaks from the team, and also Haskins' immature response to them.

[IrepDC]

7 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

 There's a lot of hyperbole going around about what "people were saying" about Haskins.  

I'm in a lot of WFT groups online. Our fans are very much into the sensationalism and exaggerating things. Haskins was scapegoated all week after he was benched. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Maybe he would have traded down to the third round, a round where he's killed it.  😄

 

Hopefully the lesson here is for Dan, he needs to stop thinking he's a scout because not only is he atrocious at it, but his interference messes with the FO and coaching staff in obvious bad ways.  

 

Well, I think we know the most likely outcome there, given our recent history (i.e. no trade backs, or a trade back to later in the 2nd, where we'd whiff on the pick).

 

And I think Dan needs to stop interfering as well.  But the difference between us is I think 1) Dan made a better pick than Gruden would have made at QB, given the evidence so far and 2) Dan will never not have a say on his franchise QB, but hopefully next time (not that there should be a next time), Dan will at least make sure the coach doesn't hate the pick.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

As someone who just got married less than 3 weeks ago, I can say that sometimes it's healthy to break up, re-evaluate, and see if you're truly meant to be together long-term and how much each side is willing to work at the relationship in order to make that a reality.

 

We're likely beyond that here, due to all the damaging leaks from the team, and also Haskins' immature response to them.

 

Absolutely, 100%, in agreement.

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Well, I think we know the most likely outcome there, given our recent history (i.e. no trade backs, or a trade back to later in the 2nd, where we'd whiff on the pick).

 

And I think Dan needs to stop interfering as well.  But the difference between us is I think 1) Dan made a better pick than Gruden would have made at QB, given the evidence so far and 2) Dan will never not have a say on his franchise QB, but hopefully next time (not that there should be a next time), Dan will at least make sure the coach doesn't hate the pick.

 

I don't think Gruden would have drafted a QB at all in his circumstance. 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, megared said:

 

So is this conclusion anything Ron couldn't have discerned prior to this season?   Did he need to trot this team out in its current state to convince himself? 

 

Because now we need to wait until March 2021 to start addressing it.   So again,  why couldn't he have gone that route March 2020? 

 

And who is exactly is he benefiting by not doing so?   

Well I think he should have in some respect. However, he likely saw the value in giving the unproven players more of a chance than many of us did. They benefited by getting the chance, sadly not many are taking that chance.

 

I felt we totally under-baked our approach in the offseason, although a slight caveat with that being it wasn’t a great FA class. Example being Hooper currently has under 100 yards and trails Logan Thomas in the TE stats. Not sure giving him 10mil here for this season would have been a useful idea. The key for us being we add a dynamic TE in 2021.

 

I don’t completely disagree with your position. I think there is a bit more of a balanced view but Rivera isn’t excelling himself at the moment. There is more to the Haskins situation and I would guess it driven by his poor attitude and work ethic, things which Rivera is now seeing first hand.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

As someone who just got married less than 3 weeks ago, I can say that sometimes it's healthy to break up, re-evaluate, and see if you're truly meant to be together long-term and how much each side is willing to work at the relationship in order to make that a reality.

 

We're likely beyond that here, due to all the damaging leaks from the team, and also Haskins' immature response to them.

 

As I said yesterday, if Rivera changes his mind about Haskins, no complaints from me. I'll ride it any which way the road goes.

 

I said from the start I trust whatever he wants and i meant that.  It wasn't I only trust him if he sees certain players through the same lense I do.  You either trust him or you don't.  Rivera and company has a ton more info about Haskins then we do.  So if Rivera says look i loved what I've seen from Haskins in practice, he's turning a corner, etc -- I'd be cool with it, whatever he wants.  He's the HC, his vision, his philosophy.  His ride.  My opinion on a player positive or negative is a nonfactor in that ride.  You got to give a HC time to implement a plan.  They all make mistakes.  None are perfect.  But the good ones make more good decisions than bad.  

[Daniel.redskins]

Ultimately what I say yesterday is that this team doesn't have a player close to a Jared Goff.  That dude was great.  The rain didn't even phase him.  He is a strong as Haskins but can move like Allen.  He is literally those two players combined (though I'm not a huge fan of his release).  We need a new qb.  That's just how I see it.  

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I don't think Gruden would have drafted a QB at all in his circumstance. 

 

I'm saying if he had to choose one.  And if we go by the theory that they would have taken Sweat in round 1 and Lock in round 2 in an ideal world, I really don't see how that improves our situation at all other than the extra 2020 2nd rounder... which we likely would have whiffed on based on recent history.

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As I said yesterday, if Rivera changes his mind about Haskins, no complaints from me. I'll ride it any which way the road goes.

 

I said from the start I trust whatever he wants and i meant that.  It wasn't I only trust him if he sees certain players through the same lense I do.  You either trust him or you don't.  Rivera and company has a ton more info about Haskins then we do.  So if Rivera says look i loved what I've seen from Haskins in practice, he's turning a corner, etc -- I'd be cool with it, whatever he wants.  He's the HC, his vision, his philopsphy.  His ride.  My opinion on a player positive or negative is a nonfactor in that ride.  You got to give a HC time to implement a plan.  They all make mistakes.  None are perfect.  But the good ones make more good decisions than bad.

 

That's fine.  How long are you willing to give him?  I understand not everyone has the same breaking point.