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Just what did people expect from someone like Kyle Allen?  Nobody considers him the long term solution but in less than a half he clearly showed improved QB play over Dwayne. He hit what he was throwing at nearly every time, he escaped a big sack. On that identical play a week earlier Haskins took a huge loss that took them out of scoring range.  

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Can someone throw out one team that might be interested in Haskins?  He doesn't improve a single team.  I expect he is cut by Wednesday.

 

Edit: He won't be cut, but that's what I would do.

Edited by Tedskins 21
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4 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Wasn't the point of playing Smith and Allen to better evaluate players? Both were more conservative than Haskins and we didn't pass beyond 10 yards until the 4th quarter. Something isn't adding up. I'm not really trying to rag on Smith and Allen as much as I'm pointing out how weak Rivera's scapegoat was. Haskins was supposedly holding the offense back, but he seems like the best arm to get the ball to our players. Maybe Allen will look better this week though. 

 

I don't think your premise is accurate.  Rivera specifically said last week the point of not playing Haskins was to win based on the upcoming schedule.

 

Smith is conservative, but I don't think that was an argument to get him on the field.  There really isn't an argument to get him on the field IMO, but whatever.

 

And Allen has no problem slinging it around if you let him.  He did that in Carolina.  I don't think arm talent was ever Rivera's issue with Haskins.  And Allen just wasn't in there long enough to really know whether he's a better option right now than Haskins. 

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1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

 

Haskins' arm is far superior to Allen's. Arm > legs on a QB.

 

His arm strength? Yes. His accuracy? Probably pretty even. 

 

Overall I'd say a quarterback's strongest trait is his mind. Not necessarily intelligence, but how quick they can diagnose and make a decision. Allen is better at that.

 

Haskins is better at snapping the ball in and has a quicker release and less turnover prone.

 

Allen is more mobile and better at creating off schedule.

 

Really, the two are similar. Behind this line both have some strengths, both have severe limitations. Different skill sets but pretty close in effectiveness unless Allen has taken a tremendous leap forward, which we'd need to start seeing evidence of this week.

 

Biggest difference is that Allen will likely embrace a backup role. Haskins will not. Neither are really starter material as we know them. 

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8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think the problem with those three guys is that what's behind them is actually much worse, not arguably worse or better. Just worse.

 

Ron cut Montae in March.  The fact that we're acting like this was a nonpreventable event, that is beyond the capabilities of our franchise steward to anticipate, doesn't give me a warm & fuzzy. 

 

Did he really sit down and assess this roster?   

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Just now, megared said:

 

Ron cut Montae in March.  The fact that we're acting like this was a nonpreventable event, that is beyond the capabilities of our franchise steward to anticipate, doesn't give me a warm & fuzzy. 

 

Did he really sit down and assess this roster?   

 

Montae was shrouded in legal issues and was getting panned weekly for his play...

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36 minutes ago, megared said:

You don't see how that could affect replenishing a talent depleted team?  Especially when that apparently was THE FA strategy coming into this season?  When you're already carrying a few terrible contracts?

I do but I've changed my opinion on paying WR's over the years, their too hard to get and too important not to have and now I wish we had have kept Crowder but I was indifferent at the time when he was a free agent.

 

It's been years since Gracon and D Jax left and we haven't replenished.  We tried for Allen Robinson and lost out there because we low balled so while I do agree the cost is high at some point we have to bite the bullet and go get some players so if we're going to sink a chunk of change into a position I'm ok doing it at WR. 

 

 

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Just now, KDawg said:

 

Montae was shrouded in legal issues and was getting panned weekly for his play...

 

Montae's not the point.  He had 6 months to figure something out.  He did nothing.  Throwing Apke out there isn't a solution.  It's lackthereof.  

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10 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Wasn't the point of playing Smith and Allen to better evaluate players? Both were more conservative than Haskins and we didn't pass beyond 10 yards until the 4th quarter. Something isn't adding up. I'm not really trying to rag on Smith and Allen as much as I'm pointing out how weak Rivera's scapegoat was. Haskins was supposedly holding the offense back, but he seems like the best arm to get the ball to our players. Maybe Allen will look better this week though. 

 

I dunno, I feel like it's pretty obvious there's something deeper to the benching of Haskins than just his play and/or the desire to see another guy play to evaluate the team.

 

I noticed the same thing @Voice_of_Reasondid. Ron's whole demeanor towards Haskins literally changed overnight after the Browns game. He went from being supportive of Haskins and saying he was sticking with him on Sunday to saying there was a "cut off point" on Monday. Then the Ravens game happened and boom, next thing you know Haskins is 3rd string.

 

You have to do something wrong other than not play well enough to go straight from 1st to 3rd string, especially when that means using a guy who almost lost his leg 2 years ago and hasn't taken a snap since as your backup.

 

There were the reports after the Ravens game of Dwayne bragging about his stats in the locker room after the team had just been crushed and that it didn't sit well with some teammates.

 

Then you see the BS with his agent tweeting dumb **** after the game. And I wonder if his benching was just the culmination of many things not related specifically to his performance (though if he's not working hard that would directly translate to performance as well so they go hand in hand).

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1 minute ago, megared said:

 

Montae's not the point.  He had 6 months to figure something out.  He did nothing.  Throwing Apke out there isn't a solution.  It's lackthereof.  

 

I'm not going to sit here and say I understand everything that Rivera has done. But I take him at his word that he believes this to be an evaluation season. And before anyone brings it up, I think Haskins maturity is what led to that evaluation stopping prematurely. But he can still evaluate the QB.

 

I think signing Cooper would have been a forward thinking move to next season, but that one is still a strange move. The OL being as bad as it is is a concern as well...

 

I'm not here to say that I think everything RIvera has done has been squeeky clean. It's that I'm willing to give him a year or so to get things more in his lane.

 

The issue is that it's going to be a problem to fill all the holes this offseason. So they're going to need another year most likely. And then the question becomes, "why didn't you start in your first offseason"?

 

Maybe he thought the draft pick this year would be important and wanted it to be a high one. 

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3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Montae's not the point.  He had 6 months to figure something out.  He did nothing.  Throwing Apke out there isn't a solution.  It's lackthereof.  


it is still beyond belief how bad Sean Davis must have looked.

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24 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

LOL that some here feel that game was any form of vindication for Haskins. He never faced this sort of pressure, had he played the results would have been even worse if you can imagine that.


Some fans clearly don’t know what they’re watching. He never faced this type of pressure because he got rid of the ball AT THE FASTEST RATE IN THE LEAGUE. He made the OL look better than they really were. 
 

Haskins has faced multiple teams with a higher pass rush win rate than the Rams. 

 

EDIT: In fact, every team Dwayne has played so far this season has a higher pass rush win rate than the Rams.  Including the 4th ranked Eagles, 7th ranked Ravens, 10th ranked Cardinals and 13th ranked Browns.

 

Rams rank 21st.

 

 

Edited by HTTRDynasty
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8 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Montae's not the point.  He had 6 months to figure something out.  He did nothing.  Throwing Apke out there isn't a solution.  It's lackthereof.  


I know it’s an excuse but it was a really weird offseason. I hope they improve in the next one. 
 

I think that really compounds the issue here. Hard to evaluate a roster when you can’t have them in the same building or on the same field. 

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

The issue is that it's going to be a problem to fill all the holes this offseason. So they're going to need another year most likely. And then the question becomes, "why didn't you start in your first offseason"?

 

THIS is the heart of the matter for me.  The elusive 'rebuild' has been put off a year, which means it's likely never coming.  There's probably gonna always be something for Ron to attach onto, to convince us, it's better to try and win now.

 

If you think in terms of Ron's contract (5 years), take the last year off for lame duck year, He now has 3 years, with what is definitely at least a 2 year rebuild.  At what point are we supposed to compete?  He just condensed everything he signed up to do, unnecessarily. 

 

And not addressing ANYTHING this past offseason, means we have all of the same needs, plus a few more. 

 

There's never going to be any ONE FA class that can support all of the needs we have.  And to be frank, I don't have much confidence Ron would get it right anyways, if he tried.  

 

I know Ron has a lot that needs to be fixed.  So why focus all of this undue attention on one position??

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5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:


Some fans clearly don’t know what they’re watching. He never faced this type of pressure because he got rid of the ball AT THE FASTEST RATE IN THE LEAGUE. He made the OL look better than they really were. 
 

Haskins has faced multiple teams with a higher pass rush win rate than the Rams. 

 

Got any stats to back that up. Seems like the Rams are the best defense we've faced with the best defensive line.

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3 minutes ago, Llevron said:


I know it’s an excuse but it was a really weird offseason.

 

Again, I get it.  But other teams picked up FAs.  When we identified Amari, we went after HIM...

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6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:


Some fans clearly don’t know what they’re watching. He never faced this type of pressure because he got rid of the ball AT THE FASTEST RATE IN THE LEAGUE. He made the OL look better than they really were. 
 

Haskins has faced multiple teams with a higher pass rush win rate than the Rams. 

 

Well, apparently Alex Smith's time to throw was the fastest yesterday at 2.26 seconds.

However, it appears to me that Alex Smith is not very good at making quick decisions. His quick throws went basicly nowhere.

Last year, Haskins was averaging around 2.8+ seconds per throw.  This year it went down to 2.37. Maybe the scheme is a quick-throw scheme.

 

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1 minute ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Got any stats to back that up. Seems like the Rams are the best defense we've faced with the best defensive line.

 

EDIT: In fact, every team Dwayne has played so far this season has a higher pass rush win rate than the Rams.  Including the 4th ranked Eagles, 7th ranked Ravens, 10th ranked Cardinals and 13th ranked Browns.

 

Rams rank 21st.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings#prwrteam

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23 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Agreed I'll give Allen more time to show what he can do. He is supposed to be the experienced guy in this offense, Ron's guy, and Turner's guy. I suspect Allen will be our next negative energy dumpster though.

Haskins' arm is far superior to Allen's. Arm > legs on a QB.

Haskin's problem is not his arm, it's his immaturity and inability to completely apply himself...  

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two years ago, I stated I would prefer to be in Cleveland's position rather than ours.  That was a knee slapper to some.  I said wait 2 years.  What I liked about Cleveland was they were getting cap space, getting good draft position, and playing young players.  That is what we need to do and it is what we are doing.  I prefer to be 2-14 two years and compete for the Super Bowl the next 5 years than be 7-9 every year.

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4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

EDIT: In fact, every team Dwayne has played so far this season has a higher pass rush win rate than the Rams.  Including the 4th ranked Eagles, 7th ranked Ravens, 10th ranked Cardinals and 13th ranked Browns.

 

Rams rank 21st.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings#prwrteam

 

Does that stat actually translate in to pressure and good defense? Seems like couple bad defenses are ranked in the top 10 and great defenses are 15 or lower. Rams are 2nd in the league in sacks, so not sure if I'm believing this translates to how good a defense is. Seattle shouldn't be in the top 10 of any defensive stat.

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5 minutes ago, gooseneck said:

two years ago, I stated I would prefer to be in Cleveland's position rather than ours.  That was a knee slapper to some.  I said wait 2 years.  What I liked about Cleveland was they were getting cap space, getting good draft position, and playing young players.  That is what we need to do and it is what we are doing.  I prefer to be 2-14 two years and compete for the Super Bowl the next 5 years than be 7-9 every year.

We still have not done a rebuild.  By putting in Allen or Smith, he wants to try the win now approach.  

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This is going to result in us cycling thru QBs. All Haskins has to do is sit on his hands and he will get his job back through sheer attrition.

 

If Alex Smith can’t develop the timing to rapidly get rid of the ball, He is going to take 7 sacks a game. I don’t like his prognosis in that scenario.

 

Allen has been in this system longer than anyone, so I don’t forsee him speeding up his releases to an amazing degree. While he is mobile enough to escape the pocket, his lack of regard for his own health will remove him from the game faster than poor play ever could. He has to protect himself 10x better if he wants to have any legitimate opportunity.

 

Haskins got rid of the ball fast. That is an absolute necessity behind this terrible Oline. It keeps himself healthy and kept the O moving forward.

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14 minutes ago, megared said:

 

THIS is the heart of the matter for me.  The elusive 'rebuild' has been put off a year, which means it's likely never coming.  There's probably gonna always be something for Ron to attach onto, to convince us, it's better to try and win now.

 

If you think in terms of Ron's contract (5 years), take the last year off for lame duck year, He now has 3 years, with what is definitely at least a 2 year rebuild.  At what point are we supposed to compete?  He just condensed everything he signed up to do, unnecessarily. 

 

And not addressing ANYTHING this past offseason, means we have all of the same needs, plus a few more. 

 

There's never going to be any ONE FA class that can support all of the needs we have.  And to be frank, I don't have much confidence Ron would get it right anyways, if he tried.  

 

I know Ron has a lot that needs to be fixed.  So why focus all of this undue attention on one position??

also why do we have any faith in Ron the GM?  I could claim that Cam Newton was the success of Rivera in Carolina and he did nothing really without him .

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