KDawg Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, IrepDC said: It is not some secret mystery that you solved about the current regime not liking Haskins. I have said for the past week this regime chose to scapegoat Haskins instead of telling the rest of the team to step up around him. Rivera is brought all his Carolina guys over I guess to prove a point, including his QB. They are reminding us, his players and coaches, why he was fired so far. I think it was a bad hire. Its a pretty simple concept when you have a young first round QB on the roster to hire a coach who wants to work with him. Rivera brought in Allen immediately and he was his guy all along. No, what I mean is I can’t figure out why you guys think Rivera should WANT Haskins. I know: “If he wanted a different QB he should have taken one” Who? The only answer is Cam. But then you’re all calling for his head because Haskins is on the bench. He couldn’t win with this contingent of fans unless Haskins miraculously became a franchise guy for THIS franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boston skins fan Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just trade the guy let this regime pick they're own QB and go from there. You all act like you didn't think it was gonna take 2-3 yrs to turn this dumpster fire into something respectable. I guarantee that Rivera told Snyder the same thing. If Rivera does get Haskins out it does show that he has the power and Danny boy is deferring to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just now, KDawg said: No, what I mean is I can’t figure out why you guys think Rivera should WANT Haskins. I know: “If he wanted a different QB he should have taken one” Who? The only answer is Cam. But then you’re all calling for his head because Haskins is on the bench. He couldn’t win with this contingent of fans unless Haskins miraculously became a franchise guy for THIS franchise. Because he signed on to Coach and develop him. Why lie to our owner / media / fanbase about working with what we have? You seem to think this was a real competition. To me Allen was Rivera's guy all along and he didn't have the balls to be upfront about his plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, IrepDC said: It is not some secret mystery that you solved about the current regime not liking Haskins. I have said for the past week this regime chose to scapegoat Haskins instead of telling the rest of the team to step up around him. Rivera is brought all his Carolina guys over I guess to prove a point, including his QB. They are reminding us, his players and coaches, why he was fired so far. I think it was a bad hire. Its a pretty simple concept when you have a young first round QB on the roster to hire a coach who wants to work with him. Rivera brought in Allen immediately and he was his guy all along. But what if the coach you really want to hire says that he doesn't think he's the right QB? Do you just keep going until you find a mediocre or subpar HC candidate who will say "yes" to get the job? Haven't we been down this road before? Also, you can't really instruct guys to step up and rally around a leader if they don't truly believe in him. IF some of the stories are true (we don't know for sure and might never know for sure) then it sounds like guys in the locker room weren't really feeling Haskins for various reasons (work ethic, bragging about stats after a loss, deflecting blame for mistakes). 2 minutes ago, IrepDC said: Because he signed on to Coach and develop him. Why lie to our owner / media / fanbase about working with what we have? You seem to think this was a real competition. To me Allen was Rivera's guy all along and he didn't have the balls to be upfront about his plans. He signed on to coach the team, not the QB. Again, that sort of bottom-up philosophy has gotten us in trouble in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boston skins fan Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just now, IrepDC said: Because he signed on to Coach and develop him. Why lie to our owner / media / fanbase about working with what we have? You seem to think this was a real competition. To me Allen was Rivera's guy all along and he didn't have the balls to be upfront about his plans. How do you know that he signed onto develop him? For all we know he told snyder that hed give the kid a shot and if he doenst think he has ht hell find his guy. Rivera coaching here and being developed are 2 different things and one is not contingent on the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, IrepDC said: Because he signed on to Coach and develop him. Why lie to our owner / media / fanbase about working with what we have? You seem to think this was a real competition. To me Allen was Rivera's guy all along and he didn't have the balls to be upfront about his plans. No he didn’t. Did Kingsbury sign on to develop Rosen? He signed on to coach this team AND he gave Haskins a chance. So what if Allen was his guy? Haskins didn’t play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, mistertim said: If Rivera and his coaches truly believe, for whatever reasons, that Haskins doesn't have what it takes and isn't the right guy for them, then wouldn't they actually be wasting time by trying to develop him anyway? If Rivera and his regime think Allen is a better prospect to develop, then they are incompetent. Not to mention why the Hell keep Dwayne on the roster, name him the starter in the off-season, and make him a captain if that is the case? If they truly don't know who should be developed and thought that little four game farce was actually enough to evaluate Haskins and pull the plug on him, then they are incompetent. I don't think they have a clue what they're doing at QB. There is nobody who is competent holding the reins on that right now, and it's a big problem for the team. They need Kyle Allen to save them like Kirk did for Gruden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just now, mistertim said: But what if the coach you really want to hire says that he doesn't think he's the right QB? Do you just keep going until you find a mediocre or subpar HC candidate who will say "yes" to get the job? Haven't we been down this road before? Also, you can't really instruct guys to step up and rally around a leader if they don't truly believe in him. IF some of the stories are true (we don't know for sure and might never know for sure) then it sounds like guys in the locker room weren't really feeling Haskins for various reasons (work ethic, bragging about stats after a loss, deflecting blame for mistakes). These questions are only necessary because we are clueless as a franchise. Also why is your question skewed to say the coach would be mediocre or subpar? Also, plenty of coaches tell their players not to point fingers and step up for each other. We have a bad football team who is using Haskins as their scapegoat. The coach enabled that by throwing the QB under the bus, giving the other bums an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Occam's razor says Rivera never had any real interest in developing Dwayne. This was a dog and pony show. When you trade for your little pet QB project from your previous team in the offseason and then scapegoat and bench your current prospect after a four game farce, then you never had a real intention of working with him. It's ****ing obvious. They look like a bunch of utter schmucks though because the offense was absolute trash Sunday. It regressed because their new QBs couldn't handle the pressure at all and the OL completely collapsed. They are completely clueless about how to handle and develop the QB position. Honestly I was thinking of going with this angle as well, but the optimist in me who doesn't want to completely dislike Rivera doesn't want to think this. But looking back at the Gruden era we can see that the guy he brought in - Colt McCoy is the guy he wanted leading his offense. Not Kirk. Not Robert. It just so happened that Colt couldn't stay healthy and He obliterated Robert's skils as a QB and was left with Kirk until we brought in Alex. I don't have really anything against Kyle and if he winds up being good it's a simple remedy to at least the team being good. But when the franchise needs to drag a players name through the mud, it leaves a sour taste for both the coach, front office other players and just the team as a whole. Especially when its a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, boston skins fan said: How do you know that he signed onto develop him? For all we know he told snyder that hed give the kid a shot and if he doenst think he has ht hell find his guy. Rivera coaching here and being developed are 2 different things and one is not contingent on the other Because that's what a reasonable team would do, but you're right, we aren't reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, IrepDC said: Because that's what a reasonable team would do, but you're right, we aren't reasonable. No it’s not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, KDawg said: No he didn’t. Did Kingsbury sign on to develop Rosen? He signed on to coach this team AND he gave Haskins a chance. So what if Allen was his guy? Haskins didn’t play well. I can point to way more examples than your Rosen one, but whatever. Right now Rivera isn't doing a good job with the team or Haskins. Game management has been terrible. Situational decision making terrible. Discipline terrible. Fundamentals terrible. Rivera isn't coaching well. What has he done outside of the QB position that has been good? He didn't even give the halftime speech that motivated our team in their 1 comeback win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boston skins fan Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: If Rivera and his regime think Allen is a better prospect to develop, then they are incompetent. Not to mention why the Hell keep Dwayne on the roster, name him the starter in the off-season, and make him a captain if that is the case? If they truly don't know who should be developed and thought that little four game farce was actually enough to evaluate Haskins and pull the plug on him, then they are incompetent. I don't think they have a clue what they're doing at QB. There is nobody who is competent holding the reins on that right now, and it's a big problem for the team. They need Kyle Allen to save them like Kirk did for Gruden. Another assumption. For all we know right now they are trying to get through the season and find the QB in the offseason. Riveras been here less then a season let the guy build the team up. This team is desperatly lacking talent in alot of key positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, KDawg said: No it’s not. You're just being a contrarian at this point. Reasonable teams don't hire coaches to work with developmental players on their roster? You are in sync with the thinking of our FO unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 22 minutes ago, IrepDC said: It is not some secret mystery that you solved about the current regime not liking Haskins. I have said for the past week this regime chose to scapegoat Haskins instead of telling the rest of the team to step up around him. Rivera is brought all his Carolina guys over I guess to prove a point, including his QB. They are reminding us, his players and coaches, why he was fired so far. I think it was a bad hire. Its a pretty simple concept when you have a young first round QB on the roster to hire a coach who wants to work with him. Rivera brought in Allen immediately and he was his guy all along. A good QB makes everyone else better. It's not everyone else's job to make the QB better. You can say he's a scapegoat, that's fine. But it's not like Haskins lifted anyone up either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, KDawg said: Did Kingsbury sign on to develop Rosen? He signed on to coach this team AND he gave Haskins a chance. So what if Allen was his guy? Haskins didn’t play well. He absolutely did not give Haskins a real chance. No earnest attempt at developing a QB prospect ends after four games. No earnest attempt begins by hedging and immediately acquiring his replacement. And it's one thing to trash a first round pick a year after you draft him to draft Kyler Murray--especially when you've known him since high school and know exactly how you'll develop him and build the team around him. It's another thing to trash one for Kyle Allen. Just now, Spaceman Spiff said: A good QB makes everyone else better. It's not everyone else's job to make the QB better. You can say he's a scapegoat, that's fine. But it's not like Haskins lifted anyone up either. He apparently lifted up a trash offensive line and trash receiver core based on what we saw yesterday. Haskins was managing his pressure like a man bailing water from a lifeboat with a big hole in it. The protection totally collapsed yesterday. But this isn't how it works with developing QBs. You absolutely have to prop them up until they grow into the job and get good enough to prop you up in return. It takes time, and it's what every organization who successfully develops a QB prospect and then transitions into an era of competitiveness does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said: A good QB makes everyone else better. It's not everyone else's job to make the QB better. You can say he's a scapegoat, that's fine. But it's not like Haskins lifted anyone up either. A young QB is always supposed to be protected by his team. You rally around them. You encourage them. You protect them as they take their lumps. This is from someone who has won many championships in this game. We have a loser culture here where we need a Young QB to be our savior. Hence the fickle reactions good or bad to what every QB does here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SprintBomb Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Fans have been begging for a competent coach to run this team without interference from the owner. We now have that and people are upset. How ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: He apparently lifted up a trash offensive line and trash receiver core based on what we saw yesterday. Haskins was managing his pressure like a man bailing water from a lifeboat with a big hole in it. The protection totally collapsed yesterday. But this isn't how it works with developing QBs. You absolutely have to prop them up until they grow into the job and get good enough to prop you up in return. It takes time, and it's what every organization who successfully develops a QB prospect and then transitions into an era of competitiveness does. 1 minute ago, IrepDC said: A young QB is always supposed to be protected by his team. You rally around them. You encourage them. You protect them as they take their lumps. This is from someone who has won many championships in this game. We have a loser culture here where we need a Young QB to be our savior. Hence the fickle reactions good or bad to what every QB does here. I don't see anyone propping up Justin Herbert. I don't see anyone protecting that guy. I don't see anyone propping up Joe Burrow, either. This seem like a uniquely WFT thing we're talking about here, that we've gotta baby a QB along and wipe his ass until some specific point in time where it's determined that he can take over and prop everyone else up. This is a dumb narrative that you guys are making to fit Haskins because you feel sorry for him and have some weird attachment to a guy who is highly inaccurate and kind of a prima donna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 I really wonder if he would answer the question of something like What does Haskins need to do to be number 2 on the depth chart because he clearly moved the ball better than Alex did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Yesterday was not competence. Yesterday was one of the worst, one-sided games of football the league has ever seen. There was no development from players or coaches, in fact, it took major steps backwards. I'm not sure I would have let any of the coaches back on the bus after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 22 hours ago, Warhead36 said: "stomach ache", really? That's the excuse we use as kids to stay home from school. When we're like 8. Come on man. Literally my first thought. Every kid quickly learned you can't confirm a stomach ache with a thermometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, SprintBomb said: Fans have been begging for a competent coach to run this team without interference from the owner. We now have that and people are upset. How ironic. I'd love to have some competence. In the coaching staff and in the front office. We do not have that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just now, Spaceman Spiff said: I don't see anyone propping up Justin Herbert. I don't see anyone protecting that guy. I don't see anyone propping up Joe Burrow, either. This seem like a uniquely WFT thing we're talking about here, that we've gotta baby a QB along and wipe his ass until some specific point in time where it's determined that he can take over and prop everyone else up. This is a dumb narrative that you guys are making to fit Haskins because you feel sorry for him and have some weird attachment to a guy who is highly inaccurate and kind of a prima donna. If you don't see anyone propping up Herbert or Burrow, you aren't paying attention. You all fight to keep this loser culture, scapegoating and burying our own players, because you think its about the player. It isn't about Haskins. He is just the latest victim. It's about this team being clueless and doing everything wrong. I have had these conversations on Extremeskins nearly 20 years, and I always find myself defending some player the fans /media chose as the problem instead of holding the TEAM accountable. Yall always do the whole "you love this player more than the team" responses also. The culture is still the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 39 minutes ago, KDawg said: No, what I mean is I can’t figure out why you guys think Rivera should WANT Haskins. I know: “If he wanted a different QB he should have taken one” Who? The only answer is Cam. But then you’re all calling for his head because Haskins is on the bench. He couldn’t win with this contingent of fans unless Haskins miraculously became a franchise guy for THIS franchise. There were plenty of FA QB's he could've taken a look at. Trading for the guy that pretty much was a part of your demise screamed laziness. I don't think it was a given Cam was going to come here... I seriously doubt Rivera, when asked in his interview said he was going to: Give him 4 weeks to prove he should be starting Stick him 4th on the depth chart Tank any potential trade value he may have Coach the QB through the media attribute whether you're competing or not to said QB's play Have his org be a part of media leaks concerning QB Bench QB, then field a historically bad offensive performance Just ridiculous on its face. How did this all occur in the first 4 games? Especially after the week 1 rally? It feels like we picked up, where we left off last year. Unnecessary QB drama, hidden agendas, nontransparent decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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