FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[clskinsfan]

On 5/22/2019 at 9:38 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Alex was actually really good at that. I think he got Preston Smith for 2 or 3 offsides/encroachments when we played the Chiefs a couple years back.   We got a few last year when he was playing too.  We just haven’t had a QB that knew how to take advantage of it and get a free play out of it like Rodgers consistently does. 

 

There are many things Alex is good at. The guy has never gotten the pub he deserves. The reason is where he was drafted. But Smith was a very good QB. You notice I said was? Because he is done. No half body pictures will change that fact. Alex Smith was a hell of a QB. But his time is over. It is time to see what Haskins really is.

On 5/22/2019 at 9:46 PM, SkinsFootball said:

In the clips shown above and the OTA videos I'm not seeing this long slow release as advertised. Has this been overstated due to player comparisons or am I completely missing it?

 

he has the best release I have seen on tape since Marino. So I dont know where you got the slow release stuff from?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[goskins10]

4 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

There are many things Alex is good at. The guy has never gotten the pub he deserves. The reason is where he was drafted. But Smith was a very good QB. You notice I said was? Because he is done. No half body pictures will change that fact. Alex Smith was a hell of a QB. But his time is over. It is time to see what Haskins really is.

 

he has the best release I have seen on tape since Marino. So I dont know where you got the slow release stuff from?

 

I have to agree. His release is as quick as I have seen.  His arm strength is excellent.  

 

As as has been rehashed but are the only legitimate concerns are his footwork (very coach able) and can his game translate to the speed of the NFL. 

[goskins10]

4 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

There are many things Alex is good at. The guy has never gotten the pub he deserves. The reason is where he was drafted. But Smith was a very good QB. You notice I said was? Because he is done. No half body pictures will change that fact. Alex Smith was a hell of a QB. But his time is over. It is time to see what Haskins really is.

 

he has the best release I have seen on tape since Marino. So I dont know where you got the slow release stuff from?

 

I have to agree. His release is as quick as I have seen.  His arm strength is excellent.  

 

As as has been rehashed but are the only legitimate concerns are his footwork (very coach able) and can his game translate to the speed of the NFL. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I have to agree. His release is as quick as I have seen.  His arm strength is excellent.  

 

As as has been rehashed but are the only legitimate concerns are his footwork (very coach able) and can his game translate to the speed of the NFL. 

 

IMO, the most important things are accuracy, arm strength, smarts, the ability to read a defense and make decisions quickly.  He appears to have all of that.

 

Anything else after that is a bonus.  If someone is a quick, shifty speedster like Russell Wilson, that's fantastic but it's not required.  

 

You're right, footwork is coachable.  And you seldom hear people talk about footwork for an NFL quarterback.  If someone throws a pick, it's cause it was a bad decision, a bad throw or they didn't see the defender.  It's not cause of footwork.  All this other stuff people are talking about...IMO, whatever.  Accuracy, arm strength, smarts, the ability to read a defense and make decisions quickly.  Everything else is secondary.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Footwork IMO is one of the bigger fundamentals.  Some say Haskins' footwork is good, some say otherwise.  I guess we will see.  But I'd put it high on the check list.  Heck accuracy in a timing based WCO is much about matching footwork to routes -- in any offense you have to reset your feet well on the move to maintain accuracy unless you are Mahomes.  Footwork is prevalent in the soup IMO. 

 

 

https://www.stack.com/a/tom-bradys-high-school-footwork-drill-laid-the-foundation-for-super-bowl-success

 

How Tom Brady’s high school footwork drill laid the foundation for super bowl success

 

 

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/aug/31/washingtons-jake-browning-focuses-on-footwork-to-s/

For Browning, though, there’s a certain satisfaction how he prepares his feet and how he studies the way other elite quarterbacks prepare theirs.

“Obviously, your drop and your footwork and all that is what sets you up (to make a throw),” he said. “It’s something I feel I’m good at. It’s something I work at and take pride in.

“Some of my worst games have been when my feet aren’t ‘alive’ or staying buzzin’ in the pocket,” he added. “When you go through reads, your feet start to die. Your stride will change and you’re not in rhythm.”

Drew Brees is one NFL quarterback Browning studies often, because of Brees’ precise passing – he holds the career NFL record for completion percentage at just under 67 percent – and for his less-appreciated footwork in the pocket. Brees, at 6 feet, 209 pounds, has a similar stature to the 6-2, 210-pound Browning, and neither are considered much of a running threat.

“Brees is pretty good at it, the footwork,” Browning said. “He keeps a wide base, he’s balanced. He has really active feet in the pocket, but he’s not antsy. Some of those (NFL) guys you’d like to watch, but a guy like Aaron Rodgers – I’m just not born that way. He’s doing whatever drop and then flicks it 70 yards.”

Browning was not gifted with Aaron Rodgers’ natural talent. Few are. Instead, one of Browning’s best qualities is his dogged obsession with some of the most nuanced fundamentals of the position.

He said he spent time this summer trying to perfect his three-step drop, to better align the timing of his footwork and his wide receivers’ route-running. The idea is for him to plant his right (back) foot just as the receiver starts the break in his route. Good footwork leads to good timing, which leads to accurate throws.

 

https://www.coursehero.com/file/p1rsjova/Peyton-Manning-spends-the-ɹrst-segment-of-every-practice-doing-basic-footwork/

Peyton Manning spends the first segment of every practice doing basic footwork drills—the kind they teach twelve-year-olds.

 

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/sports/level/professional/coach-s-corner-brees-is-nothing-short-of-the-ideal/article_b4aca17a-11e3-578f-a993-1d6131cf1ef7.html 

Coach, what attributes does Brees possess that separates him from other outstanding quarterbacks?

Like many of the great QBs, Brees has a strong arm. They all spend hours studying film of opponents and know every strength and weakness of the secondary they will face. Brees is particularly adept at identifying mismatches for his receivers. Before the snap, he has a good idea which receiver will be open, and because he has a quick release, he is able to get the ball out of his hands before the defensive line can pressure him. He is a master of getting his offensive linemen into the right pass protection scheme for the play that has been called.

What makes him special is that he has great footwork.

[Conn]

52 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

you seldom hear people talk about footwork for an NFL quarterback.  If someone throws a pick, it's cause it was a bad decision, a bad throw or they didn't see the defender.  It's not cause of footwork.

 

I thought you were being sarcastic at first when I read this but you aren't. A lot of bad throws happen because of bad footwork. A lot of good decisions are squandered because of bad footwork. If you care about timing in the offense and accuracy, you care about footwork. And even that is crazy simplified. But if you aren't hearing people who break down NFL QB play talk about footwork, time to find people who know what they're talking about. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I thought you were being sarcastic at first when I read this but you aren't. A lot of bad throws happen because of bad footwork. A lot of good decisions are squandered because of bad footwork. If you care about timing in the offense and accuracy, you care about footwork. And even that is crazy simplified. But if you aren't hearing people who break down NFL QB play talk about footwork, time to find people who know what they're talking about. 

So are you saying you can't be successful as a QB WITHOUT bad footwork?

 

[volsmet]

9 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

There are many things Alex is good at. The guy has never gotten the pub he deserves. The reason is where he was drafted. But Smith was a very good QB. You notice I said was? Because he is done. No half body pictures will change that fact. Alex Smith was a hell of a QB. But his time is over. It is time to see what Haskins really is.

 

 

They both learned from Urban, who learned from the best to ever do it. I see where you’re going.

 

[mistertim]

20 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I know we are getting close to preseason cause im starting to have day dreams of Haskins being the next Ben Rothlesburger too but some of you guys need to cool it and lower expectations just a bit. No matter how many twitter posts you throw up of Haskins saving puppys and benching 400 lbs with his shirt off he i still going to be a rookie at the end of the day. Lets give this kid time to grow. I'll be his toughest critic and i expect flashes of brilliance the same way Baker Mayfield & Mitchell Trubisky did their rookie years but I'm also expecting some subpar games where he will do some really dumb ****. Lets keep everything in reality fella's. 

 

I see almost no Big Ben in Haskins, so I'm not sure where that comparison comes from. Coming out of college Ben was highly athletic for his huge size, had shown that he was great at moving outside the pocket when pressure got to him, avoiding defenders, and improvising when things broke down. Haskins doesn't really have any of that. He's a prototypical pure pocket passer who will likely thrive in a rhythm based offense where he uses his ability to read defenses, go through progressions, and get the ball out quickly to succeed (obviously there's nothing wrong with that...certainly worked well for Brady, Peyton, Brees, etc). He hasn't shown himself to be much of an improviser, he isn't a danger outside of the pocket, and his athleticism is poor. So yeah, he really isn't a Rothlesburger at all IMO. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

IMO, the most important things are accuracy, arm strength, smarts, the ability to read a defense and make decisions quickly.  He appears to have all of that.

 

Anything else after that is a bonus.  If someone is a quick, shifty speedster like Russell Wilson, that's fantastic but it's not required.  

 

You're right, footwork is coachable.  And you seldom hear people talk about footwork for an NFL quarterback.  If someone throws a pick, it's cause it was a bad decision, a bad throw or they didn't see the defender.  It's not cause of footwork.  All this other stuff people are talking about...IMO, whatever.  Accuracy, arm strength, smarts, the ability to read a defense and make decisions quickly.  Everything else is secondary.  

 

I agree but my point was he clearly checks all those boxes in college. What we don’t know is can he do it at this level.  The game is so much faster.  

 

Its the the same question for all college QBs coming to the NFL. What makes Haskins have a little bigger question mark is his lack of starts. He has not had to play against Ds that gave had an offseason to figure out what he likes and take him out of his comfort zone.  

 

I am am in no way saying he can’t do it. But it is a fair question until he plays.  

 

I like young man. There are a lot of positives there. 

[HTTRDynasty]

On the subject of Haskins’ mechanics, here’s a good breakdown from a guy who is clearly impressed with Haskins’ footwork and throwing motion.

 

I was disappointed that he didn’t show a throw when Haskins is under pressure, because that is the main knock on him when it comes to his mechanics. I think people need to make that distinction when discussing his mechanics/footwork, because he’s actually very good there  when kept clean. 

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

10 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I see almost no Big Ben in Haskins, so I'm not sure where that comparison comes from. Coming out of college Ben was highly athletic for his huge size, had shown that he was great at moving outside the pocket when pressure got to him, avoiding defenders, and improvising when things broke down. Haskins doesn't really have any of that. He's a prototypical pure pocket passer who will likely thrive in a rhythm based offense where he uses his ability to read defenses, go through progressions, and get the ball out quickly to succeed (obviously there's nothing wrong with that...certainly worked well for Brady, Peyton, Brees, etc). He hasn't shown himself to be much of an improviser, he isn't a danger outside of the pocket, and his athleticism is poor. So yeah, he really isn't a Rothlesburger at all IMO. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

I don't know, I see the #7 , I see a Big strong armed pocket passer, I even feel like their throwing motion is a little similar, He just looks like him to me , body wise. Probably all stupid reasons and its just a personnel opinion as opposed to me trying to state some sort of fact. Clearly i don't possess your knowledge of game film and expert Collegiate  QB breakdown ability but don't worry, If he bombs I'll probably be comparing him to Jamarcus Russell or proclaiming any moron could have seen this coming......

 

  Just make sure you bookmark my Big Ben comparison so you can come back here in December and tell me what a idiot I am.

[volsmet]

5 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I have to agree. His release is as quick as I have seen.  His arm strength is excellent.  

 

As as has been rehashed but are the only legitimate concerns are his footwork (very coach able) and can his game translate to the speed of the NFL. 

 

The footwork is more complicated, it’s more about the synchronicity of his body when he moves, the fluidity of what his body can do when he’s forced to move left or right. Haskins has worked on his footwork more than any 22 year old to ever live, no hyperbole. He’s been working on, and excelling at, reading coverages since he was around 8. 

 

He had doubters in the recruiting process until late, he slipped in the draft, he has been doubted because of his awkward movement since he was young, but he’s always found success through his work ethic and undeniably elite traits.

 

49 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I thought you were being sarcastic at first when I read this but you aren't. A lot of bad throws happen because of bad footwork. A lot of good decisions are squandered because of bad footwork. If you care about timing in the offense and accuracy, you care about footwork. And even that is crazy simplified. But if you aren't hearing people who break down NFL QB play talk about footwork, time to find people who know what they're talking about. 

 

Peyton & Brady are fanatics about their footwork - that’s a big part of why they are able to get the ball to read 2 or 3 so quickly & accurately. Haskins is a fanatic about his as well, he just hasn’t faced the pressures those guys did in college. 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

And you seldom hear people talk about footwork for an NFL quarterback.  If someone throws a pick, it's cause it was a bad decision, a bad throw or they didn't see the defender.  It's not cause of footwork.  All this other stuff people are talking about...IMO, whatever.  Accuracy, arm strength, smarts, the ability to read a defense and make decisions quickly.  Everything else is secondary.  

 

Depends on who you typically talk with. Kirks bad throws were frequently about his footwork. He faded back at times, his base would get wide rather than stepping in, he had some very awkward moments under pressure - he struggled with several things DH does. 

[Warhead36]

Just about every QB's footwork falls off when under pressure.

 

We shouldn't start Haskins unless we know the OL can hold up.

[HTTRDynasty]

We need an OTA’s thread. Nice one-hander here by Trey...

 

 

[mistertim]

32 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I don't know, I see the #7 , I see a Big strong armed pocket passer, I even feel like their throwing motion is a little similar, He just looks like him to me , body wise. Probably all stupid reasons and its just a personnel opinion as opposed to me trying to state some sort of fact. Clearly i don't possess your knowledge of game film and expert Collegiate  QB breakdown ability but don't worry, If he bombs I'll probably be comparing him to Jamarcus Russell or proclaiming any moron could have seen this coming......

 

  Just make sure you bookmark my Big Ben comparison so you can come back here in December and tell me what a idiot I am.

 

I wasn't trying to attack you, just saying that I don't really see that and I've seen others make the comparison. I'm certainly not a game film or QB breakdown expert; there are plenty of people in these threads who know way more than I do. I was just explaining why I didn't see the comparison there.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

19 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

We need an OTA’s thread. Nice one-hander here by Trey...

 

 

Boy Case Kenneum looks like water dancer out there. I'm getting all tingly thinking about the fact we have two capable starters at QB on the field right now in Keenum & Haskins.......I'm such a homer 😂

[Going Commando]

16 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

It's been a long, long time since I've suspected we might actually have someone that not only has natural QB1 passing traits, but also a high grade defense-dissecting computer processor in his skull. I never felt that way about RG3 and neither did even the most optimistic people here--we just hoped he'd be such a freak and threaten defenses in so many different ways that it wouldn't matter. 

 

Nah man.  RGIII was the best QB prospect I ever watched.  Better than Watson and Mayfield.  Better than Haskins.  Even a little bit better than Luck.  He was a Heisman Trophy winner that outperformed Luck in 2011 and 2012.  He was a brilliant passer and I remember a point during the 2011 season when he had more touchdown passes than incompletions.  He had the talent to become what Russell Wilson and Patrick Mahomes are today.  But great prospects get ruined all of the time.  He suffered a serious injury and ended up with a horrible team and coaching situation.  Many a prospect has failed due to those circumstances.  OTOH Wilson and Mahomes stayed healthy and ended up on great teams with great coaching and management situations and thus they thrived and realized their potential.

 

Haskins is a blue chip prospect in his own right though.  And the hope is that our organization has achieved some stability since the RGIII debacle and that Haskins is walking into a much better situation than RGIII had.  And hopefully he stays healthy.  He shouldn't get hit as often or as hard as RGIII did. He is much more careful whereas RGIII was fearless to the point of recklessness.  But you can never predict health or injury.  All it takes is one really bad step to alter careers.

[volsmet]

32 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

We need an OTA’s thread. Nice one-hander here by Trey...

 

 

 

Odell Scarn.

[mistertim]

46 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Nah man.  RGIII was the best QB prospect I ever watched.  Better than Watson and Mayfield.  Better than Haskins.  Even a little bit better than Luck.  He was a Heisman Trophy winner that outperformed Luck in 2011 and 2012.  He was a brilliant passer and I remember a point during the 2011 season when he had more touchdown passes than incompletions.  He had the talent to become what Russell Wilson and Patrick Mahomes are today.  But great prospects get ruined all of the time.  He suffered a serious injury and ended up with a horrible team and coaching situation.  Many a prospect has failed due to those circumstances.  OTOH Wilson and Mahomes stayed healthy and ended up on great teams with great coaching and management situations and thus they thrived and realized their potential.

 

Haskins is a blue chip prospect in his own right though.  And the hope is that our organization has achieved some stability since the RGIII debacle and that Haskins is walking into a much better situation than RGIII had.  And hopefully he stays healthy.  He shouldn't get hit as often or as hard as RGIII did. He is much more careful whereas RGIII was fearless to the point of recklessness.  But you can never predict health or injury.  All it takes is one really bad step to alter careers.

 

Agreed. I think there's the occasional revisionist history here sometimes when it comes to RG3. He was legitimately an excellent QB prospect who had the tools to become a great NFL player: smart, very accurate, great arm, superior athleticism. And it looked like he was headed in that direction. However, his career was unfortunately ruined by a number of factors, including what you mention here as well as failings on his end. 

 

Haskins is almost the polar opposite of what RG3 was as far as his strengths as a prospect. The exception being the arm as they both have top arms (though RG3's could be argued as elite). 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

...ASHBURN, Va. -- The Washington Redskins' future was on display Monday.

During a workout, it looked like this: Quarterback Dwayne Haskins, taking a snap from under center, rolling to his right and stopping to throw a deep out to the left side with the receiver (Monday it was Cam Sims) catching it in stride. The presence. The big arm. The ease of the throw. Haskins is already displaying the traits that led him to be the 15th pick in the 2019 NFL draft.

The present, though, could look like this: Case Keenum, a smaller, physically less-gifted passer making smart throws here and there and mixing in a deep ball. One deep pass Monday hung up and was defended, but his ability to move was evident and it's hard to fully appreciate what his improvisation skills and experience will mean come September.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Nah man.  RGIII was the best QB prospect I ever watched.  Better than Watson and Mayfield.  Better than Haskins.  Even a little bit better than Luck.  He was a Heisman Trophy winner that outperformed Luck in 2011 and 2012.  He was a brilliant passer and I remember a point during the 2011 season when he had more touchdown passes than incompletions.  He had the talent to become what Russell Wilson and Patrick Mahomes are today.  But great prospects get ruined all of the time.  He suffered a serious injury and ended up with a horrible team and coaching situation.  Many a prospect has failed due to those circumstances.  OTOH Wilson and Mahomes stayed healthy and ended up on great teams with great coaching and management situations and thus they thrived and realized their potential.

 

Haskins is a blue chip prospect in his own right though.  And the hope is that our organization has achieved some stability since the RGIII debacle and that Haskins is walking into a much better situation than RGIII had.  And hopefully he stays healthy.  He shouldn't get hit as often or as hard as RGIII did. He is much more careful whereas RGIII was fearless to the point of recklessness.  But you can never predict health or injury.  All it takes is one really bad step to alter careers.

RG3 was a narcissistic head case who wasn't a "Team Player"  and resisted coaching..He considered himself a NFL QB on day 1. THAT poisoned the well with teammates and coaches. Had he taken himself out after the Baltimore game, WATCHED FILM and LISTENED..he would still be a Skins QB and Top Tier.

 

Yea, Dan contributed/Caused RG3's corruption..so did his Dad and Briles..

 

I don't see that in Mahones,Wilson, Luck...etc. RG3 was bigger than the game in his mind.

[volsmet]

Nuances of the sophisticated protection & how DH opened the zone he wanted to hit are football porn. We can talk about the subtle things done by the TE & T to help this protection if anyone cares to, but I’ve marked up a few screenshots from this YouTube clip on my iPad to highlight a bit of it.  

 

This was his best throw of the year, imo, but it was sandwiched by two of his worst.

 

4:07 starts the 3 play sequence.... poor, brilliant, poor. 

 

 

The brilliant.

 

Better illustration of how the final piece of the play was won.