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4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

We've gone over this nauseam, so let me just ask you this:  Can you think of any successful organization that would have handled the Haskins situation the way Rivera and co. did this season?

Can you think of an organization where the owner decides to draft players and override the FO and coaches?

 

The only hope we have is that Dan stays out of the way this time and lets the FO and coaches do their job, the reason I have some hope that might happen is because Dans neck is finally on the line.

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Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

We've gone over this nauseam, so let me just ask you this:  Can you think of any successful organization that would have handled the Haskins situation the way Rivera and co. did this season?

 

Your question makes my point.

 

Every successful organization wouldn't be in this position in the first place.  You dont read about hey John Schneider didn't like this QB in the draft, and ditto Pete Carroll.  Yet, Paul Allen fell in love with the Qb that his football people didn't want and drafted him.  It would be absurd, right?  Maybe a bit crazy.  Rooney fell in love with a QB his FO didn't care for?  I am laughing as I type that, crazy sceanrio, it just doesn't happen.  That stuff doesn't happen with winning organizations.

 

You want to talk about losing cultures.  The fact that we are having a debate about this speaks to it.  We are actually discussing whether the FO guy and HC needs to double down on the owner's mistake, a player the current top football guy in the front office along with the scouts didn't want. 

 

And the nature of this debate is do you suck it up and just deal with it or move on?  The predicament itself speaks to the dyfunction of the organization not Rivera's reaction to it.  

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Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

So your excuse for how Rivera has handled the situation is because he's placating Snyder... how will that be any different for any QB we draft going forward?  You don't think every owner has a say in who will be the face of their franchise for the next 15 years (obviously most aren't as controlling about it as Snyder, but the point stands)?  You're fooling yourself if you think that will change.


I don’t have a crystal ball. I do know that Snyder is the issue... and if he’s busy with the legal stuff and/or removed (that one isn’t happening) there’s a chance.

 

If we don’t believe there’s a chance, what is there to cheer for? We haven’t developed any guy at any position. Terry McLaurin? You could argue he didn’t develop... he was a stud coming in. He’s improved in little ways, so I’ll even give him as a guy that’s developed... but who else? 
 

Why stay here and put yourself through any of this if you don’t think things can change?

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5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

The Cardinals, while not necessarily successful, are in a much better position than we are with Kyler Murray.

 

Successful organizations don't have their owners forcing picks either.

 

Josh Rosen wasn't A) benched and B ) smeared via anonymous sources

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2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Josh Rosen wasn't A) benched and B ) smeared via anonymous sources

 

This is just being willfully obtuse. Yes, he was. He was jettisoned after one year, with the whispers of not working and not wanting to get better. Sound like anyone?

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4 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Can you think of an organization where the owner decides to draft players and override the FO and coaches?

 

The only hope we have is that Dan stays out of the way this time and lets the FO and coaches do their job, the reason I have some hope that might happen is because Dans neck is finally on the line.

 

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Your question makes my point.

 

Every successful organization wouldn't be in this position in the first place.  You dont read about hey John Schneider didn't like this QB in the draft, and ditto Pete Carroll.  Yet, Paul Allen fell in love with the Qb that his football people didn't want and drafted him.  It would be absurd, right?  Maybe a bit crazy.  Rooney fell in love with a QB his FO didn't care for?  I am laughing as I type that, crazy sceanrio, it just doesn't happen.  That stuff doesn't happen with winning organizations.

 

You want to talk about losing cultures.  The fact that we are having a debate about this speaks to it.  We are actually discussing whether the FO guy and HC needs to double down on the owner's mistake, a player the current top football guy in the front office along with the scouts didn't want. 

 

And the nature of this debate is do you suck it up and just deal with it or move on?  The predicament itself speaks to the dyfunction of the organization not Rivera's reaction to it.  

 

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:


I don’t have a crystal ball. I do know that Snyder is the issue... and if he’s busy with the legal stuff and/or removed (that one isn’t happening) there’s a chance.

 

If we don’t believe there’s a chance, what is there to cheer for? We haven’t developed any guy at any position. Terry McLaurin? You could argue he didn’t develop... he was a stud coming in. He’s improved in little ways, so I’ll even give him as a guy that’s developed... but who else? 
 

Why stay here and put yourself through any of this if you don’t think things can change?

 

Snyder will never not have a say in who his franchise QB will be.  Simple as that.  If that's your excuse for the mishandling of the current situation, I'm not sure why you guys are still here, because that will never change.

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3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Josh Rosen wasn't A) benched and B ) smeared via anonymous sources

 

He actually was smeared, Casserly said he heard from different people Rosen doesn't work hard among other things, it was a big story at the time.

 

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

 

Snyder will never not have a say in who his franchise QB will be.  Simple as that.  If that's your excuse for the mishandling of the current situation, I'm not sure why you guys are still here, because that will never change.

 

Snyder backing off from the QB he loves is actually a good sign not a bad sign that we might have a shot a turning the tide culture wise. 

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1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

This is just being willfully obtuse. Yes, he was. He was jettisoned after one year, with the whispers of not working and not wanting to get better. Sound like anyone?

 

He was given almost a full season in one scheme to prove himself.  My point was that he was not given up on in the middle of the season.  

 

And I did not see a massive smear campaign against him from the organization once he was pushed out.

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9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I don't believe this franchise is capable of developing a QB prospect.  Franchise QBs are made rather than found, and bad franchises almost never develop franchise QBs.  This is one of the worst franchises in the league.

 

Franchises like us are a pretty compelling argument against the fairness of the draft.  Certainly against the rookie wage scale.  It sucks for these kids to get drafted by teams like us.

So because it’s a bad franchise, you’d rather not even have the CHANCE at the team turning a drafted QB into a franchise QB....

 

guess you really enjoy 4-12, 1-15, 3-13, insert bad record here. 
 

me, i am sick of these crappy seasons and having my liver be dead by December, so I’ll welcome any QB they decide to draft :D 

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1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

 

Snyder will never not have a say in who his franchise QB will be.  Simple as that.  If that's your excuse for the mishandling of the current situation, I'm not sure why you guys are still here, because that will never change.


Because we’re holding on to something some have let go of: hope.

 

It likely makes us fools. But fools that haven’t given up.

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1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Snyder will never not have a say in who his franchise QB will be

We're gonna find out, the data supports what you are saying but there are other factors at play that keep me interested.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He actually was smeared, Casserly said he heard from different people Rosen doesn't work hard among other things, it was a big story at the time.

 

I must have missed that.  But the regime that smeared him was immediately gone the next season.  I wish I could say the same about this one.

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Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

He was given almost a full season in one scheme to prove himself.  My point was that he was not given up on in the middle of the season.  

 

And I did not see a massive smear campaign against him from the organization once he was pushed out.

 

You're probably right. The pre-draft reports, the previous regime, this regime, YEARS (plural) of the reports saying the same things are all just a massive smear campaign. Haskins is such a poor, poor victim of a 2x Coach of the year who actually has developed a raw-passing quarterback with reported attitude issues into an MVP.

 

Man, what the **** were we thinking listening to that asshole?!

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5 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Because we’re holding on to something some have let go of: hope.

 

It likely makes us fools. But fools that haven’t given up.

 

The same reason I'm still here.  Except my only realistic hope now is that we'll find a way to build a SB roster with a QB who has already been developed and proven elsewhere.

 

 

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Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

The same reason I'm still here.  Except my only realistic hope now is that we'll find build a SB roster with a QB who has already been developed and proven elsewhere.


But we haven’t developed anything in recent years. Punter, C are probably the two best examples. I don’t think we have the cash to win rookieless... :ols:

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If you’re going to draft a QB, you need the following:

 

1. A very good pass-blocking OL;

2. A RB who can regularly get 4 yards per carry;

3. A TE who runs exact routes and has sure hands; and

4. A D that provides short fields and doesn’t give up easy points.

 

These are the bare minimum necessities to develop a QB, and I’d argue it’s very hard to evaluate a QB without these factors present. This **** organization has never had all of these elements in place when trying to develop a QB. I’m rooting for whoever our QB will be in the coming weeks knowing they’ve been dealt a **** hand. For the record, I think Rivera is the most responsible for our current roster makeup, and I don’t hold him in nearly the same esteem as a coach/personnel man as others in this forum. His record isn’t particularly great.

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1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

And I did not see a massive smear campaign against him from the organization once he was pushed out.

 

As for the "smear"campaign.  We had multiple instances now with players in that mix.  The WP story, citing a player.  And the Peterson one the year before.  And Haskins' agent did his own smear.    There is some grey as to this issue.  There are multiple people as part of that party. 

 

But to me who cares?  Lets get a franchise QB.  Haskins IMO likely is not that dude.  If Rivera and Kyle Smith felt differently I'd ride with it.  If they change their minds on Haskins I'd ride with that, too.  

 

Football -- like the entertainment industry, like politics -- comes with rumors, gossip, etc.  Yeah other teams have that crap too. i read the NY sports page all the time, plenty of that is talked about.  Haskins is a big boy, he can handle it.  I wouldn't worry about him.  Rumors-gossip come with the turf.   I've read plenty of stuff about Russell Wilson and weird stuff about him.  If you follow the sport nationally, it isn't just a WFT thing. 

 

Mr. Social Media, Haskins,is far from some innocent dupe in that process.  But heck its not my issue with him.  Don't care.  Can the dude play?  Dan Snyder thinks yes.  Kyle Smith and Rivera perhaps say no.  That's the bottom line. 

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Just now, KDawg said:


But we haven’t developed anything in recent years. Punter, C are probably the two best examples. I don’t think we have the cash to win rookieless... :ols:

 

Moses was developed.  So was Jordan Reed before his injury issues.  So was Fuller.  Sweat seems to be coming on.  There are other examples as well.  We have a much better chance at drafting and developing other positions in this organizaiton than we do QB.

 

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

Lets get a franchise QB.

 

I agree.  And that franchise QB will need to be a proven vet IMO.  As for the other stuff, agree to disagree.  I haven't seen this level of leaks, anonymous sources, etc. anywhere else.  In any sport.

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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Mr. Social Media, Haskins,is far from some innocent dupe in that process.  But heck its not my issue with him.  Don't care.  Can the dude play?  Dan Snyder thinks yes.  Kyle Smith and Rivera perhaps say no.  That's the bottom line. 

 

I'll say it again: If Haskins doesn't care enough to put in the effort to take control of his career, punt. Don't waste more time on someone unwilling to do what is necessary.

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3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

What have you seen from Haskins that makes you think he's going to get better?

 

I evaluated Haskins well before we drafted him, during the 2018 CFB season.  I evaluate most of the draft eligible QBs every year, but especially so when this franchise is sniffing around at the position.  Dwayne's 2018 season was outstanding.  Better season than Darnold's final season, way better than Rosen and Allen did, and a much better season than both Herbert's JR and SR years.  He was a good prospect with strong tape showing a lot of desirable traits--playmaking instincts, decision-making skills, ability to read coverages and make adjustments pre and post snap--advanced reads too like overleveraging by outside corners giving his deep weapons room to adjust their routes back inside to create late developing throwing windows.  Special stuff that QBs who don't have those kinds of playmaking instincts just don't see.  Ability navigate the pocket, accuracy, arm talent, toughness, efficiency and ability to keep the chains moving, ability to operate a pass heavy offense and fully utilize his personnel.  His tape was only a slight step down from the tape Tua and Murray put out that year.

 

This kid was a really good prospect and this franchise set him up to fail in pretty much every way you can and then scapegoated the kid for the failure after pulling him four games into the season.  We've got a long pattern of mishandling the QB position and we repeated all of the sins with this new regime, suggesting that nothing has changed.  I don't know why we would expect it to though.  We didn't rebuild the architecture of the front office in any meaningful way.  We just fired Bruce and left the GM job open and then gave the new HC an extreme amount of power despite that model rarely proving successful, and then promoted the sons of accomplished NFL figures to positions they probably aren't qualified for and then almost every roster transaction/decision we've made and punted on since that happened has ranged from obvious to underwhelming to terrible.

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