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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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24 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Stepping back and looking at it, removing emotion...

 

You guys are hilarious.  Nowhere else would a 1-3 football team with a first round bust QB be discussed ad nauseam for this long.  The speculation here is over the top.

 

My issue with this is definitively declaring Haskins to be a bust after starting 11 games. IMO it's still too early to be that concrete about it. The Giants are 0-4 and Daniel Jones is having a doodoo season but most Giants fans I've seen aren't calling him a bust and that's with a doodoo season plus 17 games starting under his belt.

 

And I'm saying this as someone who was against drafting Haskins in 2019.

 

So I don't think you're necessarily "removing emotion" (or bias) like you claim to be.

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Just now, mistertim said:

 

My issue with this is definitively declaring Haskins to be a bust after starting 11 games. IMO it's still too early to be that concrete about it. The Giants are 0-4 and Daniel Jones is having a doodoo season but most Giants fans I've seen aren't calling him a bust and that's with a doodoo season plus 17 games starting under his belt.

 

And I'm saying this as someone who was against drafting Haskins in 2019.

 

So I don't think you're necessarily "removing emotion" (or bias) like you claim to be.

 

Jones actually looked like a qb who can read a defense and throw a football last year. Haskins play is more in line with some of the bigger busts the nfl has seen. Not a great comparison over 4 games.

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7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

The Giants are 0-4 and Daniel Jones is having a doodoo season but most Giants fans I've seen aren't calling him a bust and that's with a doodoo season plus 17 games starting under his belt

 

Giants fans were also thumping their chest over a totally meaningless game that all but guaranteed us Chase Young, so...

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1 minute ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Jones actually looked like a qb who can read a defense and throw a football last year. Haskins play is more in line with some of the bigger busts the nfl has seen. Not a great comparison over 4 games.

 

Don't really agree. Jones had some good stats last season for a rookie but he also got REALLY lucky with many should-have-been turnovers and it seems that's catching up to him this season. IIRC PFF rated him last season as by far the rookie with the most turnover worthy plays (and I think one of the highest in the NFL). So far this season Jones has 2 TDs to 5 INTs and has looked that part. 

 

I'm not saying this to necessarily defend Haskins. Just saying that while Haskins has looked awful at times, Jones has looked just as awful at times too and, if PFF's analysis from last season is to be believed, he basically got super lucky that he didn't have at least10+ more interceptions last season.

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49 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Cam is 31 and has looked fantastic before he got covid. A 32 year old former MVP who had a 15-1 record with our current head coach is a pretty decent long term answer in my opinion. If you are thinking past 3 years in the modern NFL you are thinking too much. I would be on board with than in a heartbeat.

Hindsight is 20-20. Over the past two seasons, it was pretty apparent that all the hits cam took earlier in his carrier had taken their toll; he’s been injured and flat out not good the past two seasons. On paper, it didn’t make sense to bring him in and mess with Haskins development process.

 

If we knew then what we know now; cam looking like his 24 yo self and Haskins showing more signs of regression than progression...

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3 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Hindsight is 20-20. Over the past two seasons, it was pretty apparent that all the hits cam took earlier in his carrier had taken their toll; he’s been injured and flat out not good the past two seasons. On paper, it didn’t make sense to bring him in and mess with Haskins development process.

 

If we knew then what we know now; cam looking like his 24 yo self and Haskins showing more signs of regression than progression...


I’m not talking about hindsight. I’m talking about 2021. Ron had to do the dance with Haskins to put it to rest this year. Now it’s a clean slate moving forward. Cam now makes sense for next year where he didn’t in 2020.

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4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Don't really agree. Jones had some good stats last season for a rookie but he also got REALLY lucky with many should-have-been turnovers and it seems that's catching up to him this season. IIRC PFF rated him last season as by far the rookie with the most turnover worthy plays (and I think one of the highest in the NFL). So far this season Jones has 2 TDs to 5 INTs and has looked that part. 

 

I'm not saying this to necessarily defend Haskins. Just saying that while Haskins has looked awful at times, Jones has looked just as awful at times too and, if PFF's analysis from last season is to be believed, he basically got super lucky that he didn't have at least10+ more interceptions last season.

 

All I'm saying is no matter how many fumbles Haskins had if he threw 24 tds, 3,000 yards, and had a 57 QBR last year in 12 games... he'd still be starting. But he didn't. He was terrible and looked unprepared to be an NFL qb and nothing changed this year. Jones earned himself some extra games by throwing almost 2 tds a game and 230+ yards.

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9 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

All I'm saying is no matter how many fumbles Haskins had if he threw 24 tds, 3,000 yards, and had a 57 QBR last year in 12 games... he'd still be starting. But he didn't. He was terrible and looked unprepared to be an NFL qb and nothing changed this year. Jones earned himself some extra games by throwing almost 2 tds a game and 230+ yards.


Daniel Jones has looked absolutely horrendous. 
 

16 games. 
52 sacks. 
26 TD/17 INT.

21 fumbles. 
 


 

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3 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Daniel Jones has looked absolutely horrendous. 
 

16 games. 
52 sacks. 
26 TD/17 INT.

21 fumbles. 
 


 

 

I'm not saying he's good. Just saying he showed enough passing the ball as a rookie to earn some games this year. If he continues this trend of turnovers he'll be replaced next year. 

Edited by httr2020dynasty
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/08/ron-rivera-dwayne-haskins-decision/

 

Any pressure Washington Football Team Coach Ron Rivera might be feeling is coming from the men below him, not the man in the suite above him. To replace Dwayne Haskins at quarterback after four games is a mightily defiant move, but it’s where Rivera feels his duty lies: to 52 other players, not to owner Daniel Snyder. This is Rivera’s bid to control the door to his locker room, to make sure the owner’s creeping poison gas doesn’t waft over his team like chloroform and knock it into yet another long-term failure coma.

 

Haskins can’t play, not in this league, not yet anyway. He needs remedial football work, and everybody knows it. One zinger in every five passes does not make an NFL quarterback. The only person who may not know it is Snyder, who handpicked Haskins with his usual face-pressed-to-the-glass infatuation on draft day last year.

 

The problem with devoting any more time to an unready kid who hasn’t yet learned accuracy or his craft is that it messes with everyone’s livelihood, and that messes with your team chemistry. This is a league in which the guaranteed money is scarce and incentive clauses are loaded. Every time Haskins errs — every time he throws short of a marker, doesn’t make the right adjustment, can’t complete a makable third-down throw — he takes money out of everybody’s pocket and wastes their effort. And that’s simply “not fair,” as Rivera has said.

 

...Rivera was even more blunt Wednesday: “The one thing a lot of people don’t see is the frustration on the sidelines of the other players as well. I look at that. I see that.”

Will Kyle Allen be any less frustrating? It’s impossible to know — but everyone now knows Rivera intends to follow his convictions. He will be second-guessed for the rest of the season by the owner. “You’ll live with it,” Snyder said. Yes, he will. But Rivera obviously prefers that to dissension within his locker room over one player’s special dispensation to “grow into” his job simply because the owner likes to play fantasy football. Put yourself into the shoes of those other players, the ones whose hands and knees are in the dirt. That’s what Rivera did.

 

Haskins’s completion rate on throws under pressure is just 24 percent, last in the league. Can’t win that way. Washington is the worst team in the NFL on third downs, converting just 33.3 percent. Can’t win that way. And Haskins is himself responsible for six sacks (according to Pro Football Focus) and five turnovers — 11 negative plays — in just four games. That means Washington has had to live with the likelihood that once every quarter, Haskins will put them in a hole. Can’t win that way.

 

...These were foreseeable problems. Haskins played just 14 games as a starter at Ohio State before he turned pro, and his numbers there, while impressive, came with some red flags well noted by pro scouts and ignored by Snyder: The depth of his targets was low, much of his yardage came on shallow routes, and his accuracy when facing five or more defensive backs suffered, a bad omen for aspiring pro quarterbacks. Through 11 games as an NFL starter, he is still showing the same tendencies.

 

 

...Mike Shanahan wasn’t in the building five minutes before Snyder forced Donovan McNabb on him, and his tenure was a continual scramble against dysfunction from then on.

 

So those who argue that this season should be a rebuild all about one man’s learning experience because he was a first-round draft choice are thinking in the flat wrong direction. Look around at winning organizations, and you don’t see them tilting the entire weight of the franchise toward one player. In fact, they do the dead opposite. As Bill Belichick once said, “If I favor one, I don’t favor 52.”

This is an important moment. It’s Rivera’s one and only chance to get the dynamic of his team right, and he seized it.

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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/08/ron-rivera-dwayne-haskins-decision/

 

Any pressure Washington Football Team Coach Ron Rivera might be feeling is coming from the men below him, not the man in the suite above him. To replace Dwayne Haskins at quarterback after four games is a mightily defiant move, but it’s where Rivera feels his duty lies: to 52 other players, not to owner Daniel Snyder. This is Rivera’s bid to control the door to his locker room, to make sure the owner’s creeping poison gas doesn’t waft over his team like chloroform and knock it into yet another long-term failure coma.

 

Haskins can’t play, not in this league, not yet anyway. He needs remedial football work, and everybody knows it. One zinger in every five passes does not make an NFL quarterback. The only person who may not know it is Snyder, who handpicked Haskins with his usual face-pressed-to-the-glass infatuation on draft day last year.

 

The problem with devoting any more time to an unready kid who hasn’t yet learned accuracy or his craft is that it messes with everyone’s livelihood, and that messes with your team chemistry. This is a league in which the guaranteed money is scarce and incentive clauses are loaded. Every time Haskins errs — every time he throws short of a marker, doesn’t make the right adjustment, can’t complete a makable third-down throw — he takes money out of everybody’s pocket and wastes their effort. And that’s simply “not fair,” as Rivera has said.

 

...Rivera was even more blunt Wednesday: “The one thing a lot of people don’t see is the frustration on the sidelines of the other players as well. I look at that. I see that.”

Will Kyle Allen be any less frustrating? It’s impossible to know — but everyone now knows Rivera intends to follow his convictions. He will be second-guessed for the rest of the season by the owner. “You’ll live with it,” Snyder said. Yes, he will. But Rivera obviously prefers that to dissension within his locker room over one player’s special dispensation to “grow into” his job simply because the owner likes to play fantasy football. Put yourself into the shoes of those other players, the ones whose hands and knees are in the dirt. That’s what Rivera did.

 

Haskins’s completion rate on throws under pressure is just 24 percent, last in the league. Can’t win that way. Washington is the worst team in the NFL on third downs, converting just 33.3 percent. Can’t win that way. And Haskins is himself responsible for six sacks (according to Pro Football Focus) and five turnovers — 11 negative plays — in just four games. That means Washington has had to live with the likelihood that once every quarter, Haskins will put them in a hole. Can’t win that way.

 

...These were foreseeable problems. Haskins played just 14 games as a starter at Ohio State before he turned pro, and his numbers there, while impressive, came with some red flags well noted by pro scouts and ignored by Snyder: The depth of his targets was low, much of his yardage came on shallow routes, and his accuracy when facing five or more defensive backs suffered, a bad omen for aspiring pro quarterbacks. Through 11 games as an NFL starter, he is still showing the same tendencies.

 

 

...Mike Shanahan wasn’t in the building five minutes before Snyder forced Donovan McNabb on him, and his tenure was a continual scramble against dysfunction from then on.

 

So those who argue that this season should be a rebuild all about one man’s learning experience because he was a first-round draft choice are thinking in the flat wrong direction. Look around at winning organizations, and you don’t see them tilting the entire weight of the franchise toward one player. In fact, they do the dead opposite. As Bill Belichick once said, “If I favor one, I don’t favor 52.”

This is an important moment. It’s Rivera’s one and only chance to get the dynamic of his team right, and he seized it.

 

Best explanation I have read

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There’s some bad things you can say about Dwayne.  But one thing I was thinking about was how good he is in the red zone.  I bet if you look at his numbers in the red zone they are damn good.  He even looks like he goes through his progressions better in the red zone.  Why is that?  If you shrink the field he plays better?

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11 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 But one thing I was thinking about was how good he is in the red zone.  I bet if you look at his numbers in the red zone they are damn good.  He even looks like he goes through his progressions better in the red zone.  Why is that?  If you shrink the field he plays better?

 

On 4th and Goal ?

Turn up the sound :)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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51 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I'm not saying he's good. Just saying he showed enough passing the ball as a rookie to earn some games this year. If he continues this trend of turnovers he'll be replaced next year. 

 

And I'd generally argue that Haskins showed enough passing the ball (or at least in his progress doing so) last season to earn some games this year. And so far he's been underwhelming to say the least. But Jones has been at least as underwhelming so far this season as well. He's looked atrocious for the most part, but nobody is calling for his head or already labeling him a total bust like some are with Haskins. 

 

Again, I'm not coming at this from the viewpoint of a Haskins "homer"; as I noted I didn't really want us to take him and I was pretty open about it before that draft. But IMO it's a bit premature to label the guy a complete flop after 11 total starts and when he had no offseason and is in a brand new system.

 

That being said, I still have a feeling that there's more to the Haskins benching than just his play on the field. Rivera overnight went from defending Haskins after the Cleveland loss to saying the very next day that there was a "cut off" point, to now moving him all the way to 3rd string. Rivera seems to have very quickly done a 180 on Haskins from praising him over the offseason for his work to benching him after 4 games.

 

I wonder if some of it was what his manager said on Twitter and/or if Dwayne was somewhat repeating those sentiments around other people; THAT'S something I could see Rivera having absolutely none of. I know it irked me to hell and back when Haskins seemed to basically refuse to take responsibility for those INTs vs Cleveland where he was blatantly staring guys down and was off target.

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1 hour ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I'm not saying he's good. Just saying he showed enough passing the ball as a rookie to earn some games this year. If he continues this trend of turnovers he'll be replaced next year. 

 

Hiring Jason Garrett didn't help either. Like Mike Nolan as DC in Dallas. Terrible signings IMO. 

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22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

And I'd generally argue that Haskins showed enough passing the ball (or at least in his progress doing so) last season to earn some games this year. And so far he's been underwhelming to say the least. But Jones has been at least as underwhelming so far this season as well. He's looked atrocious for the most part, but nobody is calling for his head or already labeling him a total bust like some are with Haskins. 

 

Again, I'm not coming at this from the viewpoint of a Haskins "homer"; as I noted I didn't really want us to take him and I was pretty open about it before that draft. But IMO it's a bit premature to label the guy a complete flop after 11 total starts and when he had no offseason and is in a brand new system.

 

That being said, I still have a feeling that there's more to the Haskins benching than just his play on the field. Rivera overnight went from defending Haskins after the Cleveland loss to saying the very next day that there was a "cut off" point, to now moving him all the way to 3rd string. Rivera seems to have very quickly done a 180 on Haskins from praising him over the offseason for his work to benching him after 4 games.

 

I wonder if some of it was what his manager said on Twitter and/or if Dwayne was somewhat repeating those sentiments around other people; THAT'S something I could see Rivera having absolutely none of. I know it irked me to hell and back when Haskins seemed to basically refuse to take responsibility for those INTs vs Cleveland where he was blatantly staring guys down and was off target.

 

I don't know man. Haskins had the lowest qbr last year and averaged less than 170 yards a game. He just was not a good passer and now there's two different regimes questioning his ability to understand the offense. Jones game against us alone probably earned him a whole year starting. He had games that made him look like a top 10 prospect and games that were terrible. So to me if I were a coach Jones would have a much longer leash this year than Haskins. You can hopefully teach someone to not take so many sacks and protect the ball, it's much harder to teach someone struggling with the fundamentals of the position. Jones threw 24 tds in 12 starts. That's pretty impressive for a rookie no matter how many turnovers they have. 

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5 hours ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Since when has everything been dependent on the development of Haskins. I sure as heck don't think Ron was ever under the impression that he had to develop Haskins or he was a failure. And patience with building a winning culture and program was not dependent on Haskins either. That's just something people that developed an emotional attachment to Haskins believes. Those of us that didn't aren't phased by this at all. 

You are missing it. This is bad team building. We ran this narrative the past 20 years with different players.

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5 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I don't know man. Haskins had the lowest qbr last year and averaged less than 170 yards a game. He just was not a good passer and now there's two different regimes questioning his ability to understand the offense. Jones game against us alone probably earned him a whole year starting. He had games that made him look like a top 10 prospect and games that were terrible. So to me if I were a coach Jones would have a much longer leash this year than Haskins. You can hopefully teach someone to not take so many sacks and protect the ball, it's much harder to teach someone struggling with the fundamentals of the position. Jones threw 24 tds in 12 starts. That's pretty impressive for a rookie no matter how many turnovers they have. 

 

I can certainly see Jones having a longer leash for a couple of reasons:

 

1) He had a statistically good year for a rookie last season (even if some of it was smoke and mirrors due to so many lucky breaks with turnover worthy throws).

 

2) I have little doubt that Judge and Garrett got their jobs partially on the condition that they committed to Gettlman that they'd stick with Jones and let him develop. Neither of those guys have the kind of heft that Rivera does so they wouldn't really have much leverage to say no, or even be non-committal.

 

As far as Jones and his turnovers, I'm dubious that he'll ever truly turn that around...especially the fumbles. That's been a major problem for him ever since college. I hear a lot about how "fearless" he is in the pocket and I can respect that. But IMO part of the reason he's "fearless" is because the guy just never seems to sense pressure. It's like he's completely oblivious to it and that's where many of his fumbles come from. Personally I think that sort of pocket/pressure awareness is something that a guy just has or he doesn't. 

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1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

On 4th and Goal ?

Turn up the sound :)

 

 


 

Yes there I know.  But I’m talking strictly red zone.

 

 

Now this read here explained by the broadcaster is vexing!!!
 

 

 

It doesn’t get more open than that in the NFL.

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23 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

You are missing it. This is bad team building. We ran this narrative the past 20 years with different players.


Yes, Snyder forcing the drafting of an extremely raw, subpar QB prospect in the first round, during the final lame duck year of a bad HC’s reign, was bad team building. It is also a sunk cost that Rivera will be out from under moving forward, and we can judge his moves at QB appropriately, this offseason and beyond. 

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2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I've seen a couple of things like that. I can only imagine what the coaching staff thinks.


And that’s why I say Terry, who is my favorite player, and probably always will be, needs to demand the ball more.  He doesn’t need to be as reserved as he is.  He’s good enough to be a little louder and ****ier.

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