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Just now, megared said:

 

So no blame on Ron for not recognizing this earlier than four games into the season?  And not implementing a better backup plan than Kyle Allen?

 

So we're not going to be able to evaluate Ron this year on how the roster is coming along, OR by how many games we win.  What's left?  Paper, rock, scissors?


1) anyone better benches Haskins off the bat.

 

2) I’d be willing to bet Snyder asked Rivera to give Haskins a real chance AND Rivera was intrigued with him anyways...

 

3) Who would you have suggested as the backup plan, that also has experience in the system, that isn’t named Cam Newton (because Haskins doesn’t start over Cam.)

 

4) Neglecting the last line in #3, just answer the first part... what’s your suggested backup plan?

 

5) Should they have drafted Tua over Chase Young? If Tua is in DC, Haskins is asking for a trade, too, so that’s not giving Haskins a chance. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

So no blame on Ron for not recognizing this earlier than four games into the season?  And not implementing a better backup plan than Kyle Allen?

 

So we're not going to be able to evaluate Ron this year on how the roster is coming along, OR by how many games we win.  What's left?  Paper, rock, scissors?

 

I think he did. I also think he didn't have any choice and had to do due diligence and show Snyder "Look, your shiny toy ain't so shiny."

 

Why does everything have to be mutually exclusive? Why does "evaluation" mean Haskins and no other QB? They can be fluid and adapt during a season when they see the rest of the Division is crap and guys on the team are apparently saying "Coach... maybe we can win with someone else, maybe we can't... but we're not winning with Haskins. We know this."

 

I just don't see why Rivera should be forced to stick with him right now when dude is a liability. He may not be the only one, but he's showing zero improvement and apparently teammates are starting to talk.

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8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The trade request I have zero problems with. Bridges burned here from nearly every angle. Him asking is not on my radar as an issue. I’m guessing he knows where Rivera stands and Haskins, as HE proved last year, doesn’t really have any desire to be the backup (as most NFL players feel) and, according to reports last year, didn’t really take being a backup seriously. 
 

I can’t imagine he’ll improve in the league behind Steven Montez on the depth chart. 

 

A trade for a bag of used footballs is the best way forward for both sides at this point.

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1 minute ago, ntotoro said:

 

I think he did. I also think he didn't have any choice and had to do due diligence and show Snyder "Look, your shiny toy ain't so shiny."

Sure he did.  He could've not taken a job.  Was Haskins being the QB not discussed in the interview?  I'd imagine that he's deviating from what he told Snyder up front.  Which was probably something he didn't need to commit to initially (who was beating down the door to come coach here?)

 

1 minute ago, ntotoro said:

Why does everything have to be mutually exclusive? Why does "evaluation" mean Haskins and no other QB? They can be fluid and adapt during a season when they see the rest of the Division is crap and guys on the team are apparently saying "Coach... maybe we can win with someone else, maybe we can't... but we're not winning with Haskins. We know this."

 

I just don't see why Rivera should be forced to stick with him right now when dude is a liability. He may not be the only one, but he's showing zero improvement and apparently teammates are starting to talk.

 

But GM Ron should know there is very little benefit of trying to make the playoffs, long term.  

 

If what you're saying is true, it means very little has changed and Snyder isn't actually taking a step back.  Are we accepting that Ron's decision making is already being diluted to appeal to Snyder?    

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2 minutes ago, megared said:

Sure he did.  He could've not taken a job.  Was Haskins being the QB not discussed in the interview?  I'd imagine that he's deviating from what he told Snyder up front.  Which was probably something he didn't need to commit to initially (who was beating down the door to come coach here?)

 

But GM Ron should know there is very little benefit of trying to make the playoffs, long term.  

 

If what you're saying is true, it means very little has changed and Snyder isn't actually taking a step back.  Are we accepting that Ron's decision making is already being diluted to appeal to Snyder?    

 

I'm sure it was discussed. We'll never know the content. Could have been "I'll give him a shot, but here are my concerns... "

 

We do know the result on-field after four games. Dude needs to sit. Why not try to make the playoffs when you have an opportunity? What's wrong with that? I don't understand why anyone should just be happy tanking the season for the sake of Haskins when there's an opportunity to actually do well in the Division. I just don't understand it. What's wrong with actually trying to win games. I do think Rivera knows what he has with Haskins and right now it isn't pretty. You can't just leave him in at the expense of everyone else.

 

I think starting him was to appease Snyder and maybe hope Haskins really would get it. I think sitting him is Rivera asserting himself and saying, for the benefit of the team, Haskins has to sit. Why is that so implausible? Why not try to win? Is the team beholden to a QB drafted way earlier than he should have been who wasn't anywhere near NFL-ready?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, KDawg said:


1) anyone better benches Haskins off the bat.

 

2) I’d be willing to bet Snyder asked Rivera to give Haskins a real chance AND Rivera was intrigued with him anyways...

 

3) Who would you have suggested as the backup plan, that also has experience in the system, that isn’t named Cam Newton (because Haskins doesn’t start over Cam.)

 

4) Neglecting the last line in #3, just answer the first part... what’s your suggested backup plan?

 

5) Should they have drafted Tua over Chase Young? If Tua is in DC, Haskins is asking for a trade, too, so that’s not giving Haskins a chance. 

 

 

 

1)  Exactly what should've happened then. I don't think Ron getting the job was contingent upon him starting Haskins immediately. 

 

2)  Ron had all the leverage in the world.  Snyder's reputation meant that in order to get a credible coach on board, he had to give him ultimate authority.  

 

3) I know everyone's saying Cam, but I think Kyle Allen is going to make us reminisce lovingly of the Case Keenum era.  Brady, Foles, Bridgewater, Tyrod Taylor, Blake Bortle, Fitzpatrick were ALL available.  I don't recall any interest from him in bringing any of those guys in.  

 

4)  If the plan was to compete this year, should've addressed O-line, and brought in vets in offense.  You either try to maximize the rookie contracts on the D-line to compete now, or accept that you're going to be letting a lot of these guys walk in a few years, to hopefully pay CY.    

 

5)  I'd say no (he's as advertised thus far)...but if the elephant in the room was always going to be QB...and we're going to hold off on a rebuild until we get QB right, might as well have taken Tua.  

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4 minutes ago, megared said:

 

1)  Exactly what should've happened then. I don't think Ron getting the job was contingent upon him starting Haskins immediately. 

 

2)  Ron had all the leverage in the world.  Snyder's reputation meant that in order to get a credible coach on board, he had to give him ultimate authority.  

 

3) I know everyone's saying Cam, but I think Kyle Allen is going to make us reminisce lovingly of the Case Keenum era.  Brady, Foles, Bridgewater, Tyrod Taylor, Blake Bortle, Fitzpatrick were ALL available.  I don't recall any interest from him in bringing any of those guys in.  

 

4)  If the plan was to compete this year, should've addressed O-line, and brought in vets in offense.  You either try to maximize the rookie contracts on the D-line to compete now, or accept that you're going to be letting a lot of these guys walk in a few years, to hopefully pay CY.    

 

5)  I'd say no (he's as advertised thus far)...but if the elephant in the room was always going to be QB...and we're going to hold off on a rebuild until we get QB right, might as well have taken Tua.  

 

It's year one. They gutted the team to start the rebuild. He thought Dwayne Haskins could lead the team this year and if he was great than maybe you have your qb. He brought in Kyle Allen who went 6-7 as a starter with him just because he knows the offense and he's young and cheap. Neither of these guys are probably going to be his qb of the future. I don't think part of his plan was for Haskins to be so bad that he had no choice but to play Allen this early. 

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48 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I want the team to be successful.  I don't want an influx of 49ers/Chiefs fans who invade social media (and this board) to talk about how wonderful Alex is and "all he does is win".  2018 was not a good season.  

I was happy winning games, which we haven't really done since his injury.

 

The talent on this team now, since he was here last is much better. Defense is much better. TMC and Gibson are much better. We sort of even might have a TE which we didn't before.

 

I would love to see Smith "manage" some games for thi8s squad.

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1 minute ago, megared said:

 

1)  Exactly what should've happened then. I don't think Ron getting the job was contingent upon him starting Haskins immediately. 

 

2)  Ron had all the leverage in the world.  Snyder's reputation meant that in order to get a credible coach on board, he had to give him ultimate authority.  

 

3) I know everyone's saying Cam, but I think Kyle Allen is going to make us reminisce lovingly of the Case Keenum era.  Brady, Foles, Bridgewater, Tyrod Taylor, Blake Bortle, Fitzpatrick were ALL available.  I don't recall any interest from him in bringing any of those guys in.  

 

4)  If the plan was to compete this year, should've addressed O-line, and brought in vets in offense.  You either try to maximize the rookie contracts on the D-line to compete now, or accept that you're going to be letting a lot of these guys walk in a few years, to hopefully pay CY.    

 

5)  I'd say no (he's as advertised thus far)...but if the elephant in the room was always going to be QB...and we're going to hold off on a rebuild until we get QB right, might as well have taken Tua.  

 

(I don't mean to address your points by number flippantly, it's just easier :ols: )

 

1. I don't think the job was contingent on it, but I do believe Snyder asked him to give Haskins a real shot. And Rivera, like most new employees, wanted to show the boss he has an open mind. And I really do believe that Rivera was at first very intrigued by Haskins, so he obliged the team owner's wishes.

 

2. I agree here. But I don't think it was phrased as an order. Probably even likely had a preface of, "You have control and don't have to do this... but..." (I recognize the fact I am assuming a lot, but so is everyone else here, so why not?)

 

3. Brady wanted to play in warm weather, Foles was a possibility, but he's a guy that most people don't think is fantastic anyways. Bridgewater is starting caliber, I think he benches Dwayne, too, so that's not giving the young first rounder a shot either. Tyrod could have been signed, but I think he starts over Dwayne, too. Bortles... May as well try to develop Haskins. Fitzpatrick is the one guy on that list that I would thought is an option. But he played for MIA last year and I'm sure he wanted to stay. But Fitzpatrick would have brought us something none of the other names on the list do... Or even our current back ups do... Excitement... Because there's never a dull moment. But he could have wound up starting over Haskins, too.

 

I think what's lost is how raw Haskins actually is. You get a look at these other guys in camp and they are starting. I think Rivera KNEW Haskins was raw, but took the job thinking they could fix him. And then, something many don't add to the equation but factors in... Even in regards to Haskins overall development... COVID hit. That put a giant monkey wrench in plans to develop a guy. 

 

4. Well, I don't think the plan ever WAS to compete this year. I think it was to evaluate. But the division is worse than almost anyone thought. I thought Dallas was going to be extremely good. They'd give up points but hold their own and they'd score in heaps. I thought Philly was dangerous and Wentz was getting some footing after being injured. I was wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if others thought similarly. In fact, I know others did because of all the predictions and such. I don't know exactly what the WFT thought, so maybe they knew? But I doubt it. I think the whole being a half game out of first place at 1-3 came as a surprise to everyone. And I think it's still an evaluation year, but the team has a chance. And Haskins is raw. Allen probably isn't better, but it keeps the locker room with Rivera because of the optics that he is shifting focus to the guy who has more familiarity with the system.

 

5. But if Tu'a winds up injured and unable to turn it around, that move gets absolutely destroyed by everyone, too. Especially for passing on Chase Young. We'd get eviscerated with "this franchise never learns". People here are saying it because Haskins didn't pan out.

 

Haskins is a relic of an old regime. Not necessarily his fault, though he played his own role. But he is Snyder and Allen's guy. I have ALWAYS believed that a new coach coming in should get their own QB by season 2. I don't necessarily always believe that means a switch. If I was hired to coach the Packers, for instance ( :ols: pipe dream), I wouldn't want anyone but Rodgers right now. But sometimes draft position, needs and circumstance dictate the moves you make. I don't think QB was the move in this last draft. I think the move was always Young. I was intrigued with Tu'a but ultimately his injury meant I wouldn't have done it. A healthy Tu'a? Yeah. Maybe. Young is still hard to pass.

 

Where I WILL side with people who are harping on a plan at QB, is this offseason needs to show a direction at the QB position. If we roll into camp with Allen/Smith... that's disappointing. 

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6 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

It's year one. They gutted the team to start the rebuild.

 

Then why was the QB switch made under the guise of competing?

 

6 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

He thought Dwayne Haskins could lead the team this year and if he was great than maybe you have your qb. He brought in Kyle Allen who went 6-7 as a starter with him just because he knows the offense and he's young and cheap. Neither of these guys are probably going to be his qb of the future. I don't think part of his plan was for Haskins to be so bad that he had no choice but to play Allen this early. 

 

Not a fan of games within games.  I'd like to see a process...as well as coherence and alignment between GM and coaching duties.  No reason for the season to hinge upon DH's development.  DH's playing time should've always hinged on his development, and coach's acceptance of it.  He should've never saw the field until Ron was confident the guy could execute the damn offense.  It's not an impossibly high bar that would've confused anyone.  

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No one has shared they feel Allen is franchise guy, so let’s all join together and hope he provides a spark. His running ability will have us all gushing over him initially lol My guess is Turner will put this on full display with designed roll outs, RPO/RO actions, and PA boot or two. 
 

We’ll see if he’s improved in managing 4 quarters of a game. 

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3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Then why was the QB switch made under the guise of competing?

 

 

Not a fan of games within games.  I'd like to see a process...as well as coherence and alignment between GM and coaching duties.  No reason for the season to hinge upon DH's development.  DH's playing time should've always hinged on his development, and coach's acceptance of it.  He should've never saw the field until Ron was confident the guy could execute the damn offense.  It's not an impossibly high bar that would've confused anyone.  

 

That's a stretch. He gave Dwayne a chance, Dwayne failed. There's not much more to it and not really the biggest deal for Ron. Haskins development was not nearly as important to Ron than to you guys. He gave him a chance, that's all Dwayne can ask for. And he performed so badly that he's going with his guy. Nothing really has changed for Ron other than him knowing Haskins isn't going to be his guy. 

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2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Okay, he was still given the starting nod.  He went from starter to watching the practice squad guy take snaps yesterday.  That's not taking a step back, that's a  fall all the way down the staircase.  That doesn't happen for no reason.  That doesn't happen merely because he hasn't been so hot on Sundays.  I also don't expect Ron to let all of us know the truth for why that is for both Dwayne and the teams sake.

 

Yeah I think this is pretty clear.  Ron gave him a chance, he failed miserably in just about every way possible.  This demotion is sending a very clear message that there is more to this than just his terrible play on the field.  Just too many flags around a guy we were supposed to build around. Time to move on, I agree with @MartinC, it's best for all parties that he be traded if at all possible.  Then he will disappear as so many failed QBs tend to do.    Hope he is saving his money.  

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Apologies if this was already posted.  New WaPo article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/08/dwayne-haskins-benched-washington/

 

But inside the team’s practice facility, momentum for the move had been growing, a person with knowledge of the situation said, in part because Haskins had fallen into poor study and practice habits. The person said Haskins’ lack of preparation was hurting him in games, leading to overthrown passes and missed opportunities to hit open receivers.

 

The concerns represented a departure from the effort Haskins had shown in winning the starting job during training camp, for which he had drawn praise from Rivera. Something seemed to happen to Haskins after winning the job, the person familiar with the situation said, and his work habits deteriorated. Another person who has seen Haskins at practice this season noticed Haskins being sloppy during pregame warm-ups, while Allen worked diligently in those same drills, even though he was unlikely to play in the game.

 

200.gif

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5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

No one has shared they feel Allen is franchise guy, so let’s all join together and hope he provides a spark. His running ability will have us all gushing over him initially lol My guess is Turner will put this on full display with designed roll outs, RPO/RO actions, and PA boot or two. 
 

We’ll see if he’s improved in managing 4 quarters of a game. 

 

Kyle Allen gives me 2014 Kirk vibes. A roller coaster.  A try hard guy but tries to do too much -- as Rivera said threw too much in tight windows, too many mistakes.   Rivera suggested he might have learned from it.

 

The vibe I get from Rivera's comments is that he also has no idea what he has in Kyle but is willing to roll the dice.  I'd guess their hard position is Haskins is unlikely the guy.  Kyle is a wildcard.  Alex maybe a wildcard too considering his health.  And they likely are Qb shopping next off season.

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That is no surprise based on everything I had seen back to last year. I was convinced he'd never be the guy during one of the early games last season where he should have been with the QBs discussing the game plan but was instead standing alone and pouting/looking disinterested because he wasn't playing.

 

The "all about me" attitude might work for a few all-pro receivers - I'm not sure it is the mindset you want from your QB.

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3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Apologies if this was already posted.  New WaPo article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/08/dwayne-haskins-benched-washington/

 

But inside the team’s practice facility, momentum for the move had been growing, a person with knowledge of the situation said, in part because Haskins had fallen into poor study and practice habits. The person said Haskins’ lack of preparation was hurting him in games, leading to overthrown passes and missed opportunities to hit open receivers.

 

The concerns represented a departure from the effort Haskins had shown in winning the starting job during training camp, for which he had drawn praise from Rivera. Something seemed to happen to Haskins after winning the job, the person familiar with the situation said, and his work habits deteriorated. Another person who has seen Haskins at practice this season noticed Haskins being sloppy during pregame warm-ups, while Allen worked diligently in those same drills, even though he was unlikely to play in the game.

 

200.gif

 

And boom goes the dynamite.  

 

(I love the opportunity to use that line)

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4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Apologies if this was already posted.  New WaPo article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/08/dwayne-haskins-benched-washington/

 

But inside the team’s practice facility, momentum for the move had been growing, a person with knowledge of the situation said, in part because Haskins had fallen into poor study and practice habits. The person said Haskins’ lack of preparation was hurting him in games, leading to overthrown passes and missed opportunities to hit open receivers.

 

The concerns represented a departure from the effort Haskins had shown in winning the starting job during training camp, for which he had drawn praise from Rivera. Something seemed to happen to Haskins after winning the job, the person familiar with the situation said, and his work habits deteriorated. Another person who has seen Haskins at practice this season noticed Haskins being sloppy during pregame warm-ups, while Allen worked diligently in those same drills, even though he was unlikely to play in the game.

 

Paulsen said checking out Haskins with a source he had with the club, their issue with Haskins is mistakes in practice that followed him into games and missing opportunities during games that they drew up for him.

 

As for the stuff above as to work habits.  There were concerns about Haskins on this front before the draft, I posted those articles.  And there was stuff like this during last season. 

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1 minute ago, megared said:

Lol.  He was now overthrowing receivers because of 'attitude' and NOT terrible mechanics?  Slander season has begun...

 

Literally nothing was said about his attitude.  It was poor preparation, sloppiness, and inability to correct his terrible mechanics or even work on them.  If you think this is "slander", why aren't you advocating for Haskins to be traded to a good organization where he can prove everyone wrong and become a legit starting QB in the NFL?

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Just now, Heisenberg said:

That is no surprise based on everything I had seen back to last year. I was convinced he'd never be the guy during one of the early games last season where he should have been with the QBs discussing the game plan but was instead standing alone and pouting/looking disinterested because he wasn't playing.

 

The "all about me" attitude might work for a few all-pro receivers - I'm not sure it is the mindset you want from your QB.

He reminded me of Cam with 1/10th the talent and no where close to the success. His sideline behavior was so tone deaf, it was scary. An absolute clown. 

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For fun I just went and looked up scouting reports... No cheating...

 

But let's guess who is who...

 

These are all from the Draft Network, by the way.

 

Player A

Quote

Arm Accuracy - Ability to throw with consistency isn't where you'd like it and he'll put the ball at risk throwing into tight windows too often — doesn't have the pinpoint accuracy to any area of the field to be so reliant on pushing into tight windows. Mechanics break down when forced off his spot and his spray chart becomes quite erratic.

Decision Making - There's a general lack of innate feel for the position — he misses the mark with a lot of little things, like touch and decision making under duress. He's too wild and appears to be indecisive to throw late and across his body, he should have tossed several more INT than he was credited with.

Progressions - Slow to work off the first read. When he misses his timing routes, he's forced into sandlot play but even then he's not overly fleet of foot — so he'd benefit greatly from finding the handle with how he operates from snap to the top of his drop. Eyes need to move faster to work through targets to find open bodies.

Anticipation - Can be guilty of missing some easy throws and taking pressures that should have been easily avoided. He has some pleasant flashes of spot throws, both within the pocket and when he's forced off his spot and needs to make a play on the move. Just enough there to keep you engaged.

Poise - Can be erratic. The highs are high but the lows are too low — he's very streaky and when his cage is rattled he's a liability under duress. Needs to work more quickly in general and help himself to avoid consistent pressures in the pocket.

Arm Strength - He's got plenty of juice. He's capable of throwing off balance and pushing the ball vertically down the field to create big plays in the passing game. He is capable of slotting throws into tight windows when his accuracy is where he's hoping it should be on any given throw.

Pocket Awareness - Sense of pocket manipulation is somewhat underwhelming and he's guilty of driving into pressures too often — lacks feel for working into space even when he's able to flush off his spot at first to make the first arriving pass rusher miss off the edge or up the middle.

Mechanics - Everything breaks down when he's feeling the heat — which brings negative effects on his consistency and placement when the pocket is closing in around him. Can also be guilty of hurrying his delivery sequence when he's late to finding a receiver and missing some gimmie throws.

Footwork - Can be somewhat stale getting back onto his throwing platform. Feet aren't super nimble and he can struggle to recollect himself when rushers are into his face and task him with sliding laterally and getting down hill before working into a throwing sequence.

Run Ability - For his size, his athleticism should actually be considered a plus. He's not super fast but if he's charged with rollouts or able to break the pocket he is definitely capable of making you pay against man coverage and will convert short yardage runs from under center thanks to his frame and leg drive. 

 

Player B

Quote

Arm Accuracy –Impressive placement on far reaching throws in the intermediate areas of the field. Can struggle with placement on his bucket throws vertically but when lacing balls to the sideline or vs. holes in zone coverage, flashes very good placement to slot into a tight space.

Decision Making –Can get a bit flustered under pressure, had some ugly reps through mid-season contests when he was batted around early. Can freeze if his read is unexpectedly unavailable. Surgical vs. soft zone and off man coverage. Methodical passer in the shallow areas.

Progressions –Can be very effective, showed a lot of confidence reading trips side route concepts and picking apart defensive coverage. Deeper drops and longer developing plays create poor results, is more reliable and clean in the quick game and rhythm passing.

Anticipation –Willing and perfectly able of pulling trigger on spot throws to the sideline or breaking across the back of a zone defender...issues stem from placement but conceptually shows a high competency and grasp in this area.

Poise –Pressure in his face has brought out the worst in him, an understandable byproduct of pressure. But escapability limitations are apparent and seems to freeze under the gun. Game situations, however, are no problem. Successful 2-min offense, 3rd/4th downs.

Arm Strength –Pop off his hands is most notable on far hash out routes and sideline throws. Ball gets to target in a hurry when he's working off a stationary platform and really able to put torque into the ball with confidence. Can struggle with too much air under his vertical throws.

Pocket Awareness –Shows effective skills in climbing the pocket vertically, has a good sense of when his tackles are defeated and needing to climb up the ladder. Has slid into pressure when forced laterally instead of holding his water in the phone booth.

Mechanics –Does have a little bit of a drop of the ball in his delivery, nothing egregious but there's a slight delay from when he mentally pulls the trigger and when the ball shoots out. Pretty compact otherwise and gets over the top at his release point.

Footwork –Requires some real estate, can be a bit of a long strider in delivery and when handcuffed allows the ball to get away from him. Quick snap on sudden throws to the flat. Shows good lower body rotation when he's afforded a sizable amount of space.

Mobility –Has enough mobility to get off of his spot and climb the pocket for a throw. Lacks any exceptional wiggle or first step quickness, so has to wait out pass rushers before stepping up and forcing the missed tackle. Waning success using his legs on the edge.

 

 

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