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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Have to believe that if Sean could make it work with Goff at QB in his system, Jay can make it work with Haskins. 

 

Why? McVay is a much better play caller than Jay and IMO a much better coach. Jay is outstanding at designing plays from a high level chess game / theoretical standpoint but he's pretty weak at calling plays and making adjustments when it comes to real world game time situations. I also think he's way too rigid and isn't especially good at adapting his offense to suit the personnel he has, but that's likely a product of him being so much better at the 30,000 foot view than in the trenches.

 

I actually worry about Jay's ability to help Haskins progress correctly. In that, I'm really hoping that O'Connell will end up being top notch and will be much more involved in Dwayne's development. 

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volsmet

volsmet

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Have to believe that if Sean could make it work with Goff at QB in his system, Jay can make it work with Haskins. 

 

Gruden is to McVay as skim milk is to yoo-hoo.

 

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HTTRDynasty

HTTRDynasty

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Why? McVay is a much better play caller than Jay and IMO a much better coach. Jay is outstanding at designing plays from a high level chess game / theoretical standpoint but he's pretty weak at calling plays and making adjustments when it comes to real world game time situations. I also think he's way too rigid and isn't especially good at adapting his offense to suit the personnel he has, but that's likely a product of him being so much better at the 30,000 foot view than in the trenches.

  

I actually worry about Jay's ability to help Haskins progress correctly. In that, I'm really hoping that O'connell will end up being top notch and will be much more involved in Dwayne's development. 

 

I agree Sean is a much better play-caller and HC.  But I'm really speaking to the comparability of their systems.  They're obviously extremely similar, and I think it bodes well that Haskins is such a similar prospect to a QB who is currently doing extremely well in such a similar system.

 

Re: play-calling... it's not like Jay is a bottom of the league play-caller.  He's probably around league average.  But I would also love for him to hand his play-calling duties over to KOC and see what he can do.

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I agree Sean is a much better play-caller and HC.  But I'm really speaking to the comparability of their systems.  They're obviously extremely similar, and I think it bodes well that Haskins is such a similar prospect to a QB who is currently doing extremely well in such a similar system.

 

Re: play-calling... it's not like Jay is a bottom of the league play-caller.  He's probably around league average.  But I would also love for him to hand his play-calling duties over to KOC and see what he can do.

 

Personally, I think Jay is much closer to the bottom of the league than the middle when it comes to in-game play calling. He's ludicrously predictable, has no killer instinct, seems to coach scared, and appears completely incapable of making adjustments when necessary (otherwise known as "pretty much every game" in the NFL).

 

His whole spiel not long ago about being fine with winning close games and being built that way was a testament to that. Unless he has a truly elite overall level of talent on his team, that kind of coach is going to consistently get you to a 7-9 to 9-7 record with a smattering of a couple more wins or losses, depending mostly on luck and schedule. At least in THIS day's NFL. That sort of thing worked fine in the 80s but not now.

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Personally, I think Jay is much closer to the bottom of the league than the middle when it comes to in-game play calling. He's ludicrously predictable, has no killer instinct, seems to coach scared, and appears completely incapable of making adjustments when necessary (otherwise known as "pretty much every game" in the NFL).

 

His whole spiel not long ago about being fine with winning close games and being built that way was a testament to that. Unless he has a truly elite overall level of talent on his team, that kind of coach is going to consistently get you to a 7-9 to 9-7 record with a smattering of a couple more wins or losses, depending mostly on luck and schedule. At least in THIS day's NFL. That sort of thing worked fine in the 80s but not now.

image.png.f5a961246ed528f146bf7a63a64e7a10.png

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HTTRDynasty

HTTRDynasty

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Personally, I think Jay is much closer to the bottom of the league than the middle when it comes to in-game play calling. He's ludicrously predictable, has no killer instinct, seems to coach scared, and appears completely incapable of making adjustments when necessary (otherwise known as "pretty much every game" in the NFL).

 

His whole spiel not long ago about being fine with winning close games and being built that way was a testament to that. Unless he has a truly elite overall level of talent on his team, that kind of coach is going to consistently get you to a 7-9 to 9-7 record with a smattering of a couple more wins or losses, depending mostly on luck and schedule. At least in THIS day's NFL. That sort of thing worked fine in the 80s but not now.

 

I agree he is very predictable, especially when it comes to run vs. pass situations.  And he struggles with in-game adjustments.  I disagree that he doesn't have a killer instinct or that he "coaches scared", especially compared to McVay.  I know this is just one aspect of "coaching scared" or not, but here's a chart on teams' decisions to go for it on 4th down last year.  Note where McVay is ranked.

 

NFL Decisions on Fourth Down

Rank Team Plays Passes Rushes Punts FGAs Go for It % First Downs Success %
1 Eagles 37 3 18 13 3 56.8% 17 81.0%
2 Browns 17 4 5 7 1 52.9% 7 77.8%
3 Saints 31 4 11 10 6 48.4% 12 80.0%
4 Cowboys 30 2 12 15 1 46.7% 10 71.4%
5 Ravens 25 3 8 11 3 44.0% 7 63.6%
6 Seahawks 25 5 5 13 2 40.0% 6 60.0%
7 Packers 23 3 6 11 3 39.1% 4 44.4%
8 Giants 30 5 6 14 5 36.7% 7 63.6%
9 Bills 17 1 5 10 1 35.3% 3 50.0%
10 Dolphins 23 3 5 13 2 34.8% 5 62.5%
10 Chiefs 23 1 7 10 5 34.8% 6 75.0%
12 Raiders 32 2 9 15 6 34.4% 4 36.4%
13 Bears 24 1 7 12 4 33.3% 6 75.0%
13 Steelers 21 6 1 10 4 33.3% 5 71.4%
13 Texans 33 7 4 18 4 33.3% 7 63.6%
16 Vikings 25 4 4 11 6 32.0% 5 62.5%
16 Bengals 25 2 6 14 3 32.0% 5 62.5%
18 Redskins 32 2 8 19 3 31.3% 8 80.0%
19 Patriots 36 6 5 15 10 30.6% 9 81.8%
20 Jaguars 25 1 6 15 3 28.0% 5 71.4%
21 Broncos 26 3 4 16 3 26.9% 5 71.4%
22 Falcons 25 3 3 15 4 24.0% 3 50.0%
23 Chargers 30 1 6 19 4 23.3% 6 85.7%
24 Cardinals 31 2 5 20 4 22.6% 4 57.1%
25 Lions 32 3 4 19 6 21.9% 4 57.1%
25 Panthers 32 2 5 17 8 21.9% 5 71.4%
27 Buccaneers 19 2 2 11 4 21.1% 3 75.0%
27 49ers 19 0 4 12 3 21.1% 3 75.0%
29 Titans 30 0 6 16 8 20.0% 3 50.0%
30 Colts 31 3 3 21 4 19.4% 4 66.7%
31 Rams 27 2 3 13 9 18.5% 4 80.0%
32 Jets 33 1 5 23 4 18.2% 4 66.7%
  AVERAGE 27.2         31.8%   66.9%

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1/23/18194022/sean-mcvay-conservative-fourth-down-approach-los-angeles-rams

 

 

I'll probably get killed for this, but to be fair to Jay, McVay has had much more talented offenses to call plays for during their respective times in DC, and easily had the better offensive talent in 2017-18.  Gruden's offense in 2014 was hamstrung by the ineptitude of his QB's that year, and Reed was never fully healthy.  In 2015-16, McVay had the best set of weapons and QB (who had finally learned how to read NFL defenses post-snap) to work with that we've had in this era before or since.  In 2017, Chris Thompson was our only legitimate offensive threat.  In 2018, Gruden was once again hamstrung by his QB's limitations.  Gruden has shown he can lead a good offense with legitimate weapons as an OC, and can post good records when paired with a strong defense.  The Bengals 9-7, 10-6, and 11-5 records from 2011-2013 is a testament to that, even with Dalton at QB.  

 

Regardless, I've never been Jay's biggest fan, and I'm still not, but it seems that this is one of those situations that is common amongst NFL fans: there are very few fanbases in the NFL happy with their OC, DC or play-calling head coach.  It's the easiest thing to point out, nit-pick, and criticize as a fan, and I'm sure some of the guys around the league you consider good OC's/DC's are not considered as such by the fans of the teams they coach.  I frequent a general NFL football forum and I see evidence of this all the time.

 

 

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dc1

dc1

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Why? McVay is a much better play caller than Jay and IMO a much better coach. Jay is outstanding at designing plays from a high level chess game / theoretical standpoint but he's pretty weak at calling plays and making adjustments when it comes to real world game time situations. I also think he's way too rigid and isn't especially good at adapting his offense to suit the personnel he has, but that's likely a product of him being so much better at the 30,000 foot view than in the trenches.

 

I actually worry about Jay's ability to help Haskins progress correctly. In that, I'm really hoping that O'Connell will end up being top notch and will be much more involved in Dwayne's development. 

I like this assessment.

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Malapropismic Depository

Malapropismic Depository

Posted
Posted
On 5/17/2019 at 11:35 PM, Thinking Skins said:

On that Rypien advice, it's a cool statement but I'd much rather him be in the film room or working on things with coaches than simply at the facilities.

 

On 5/18/2019 at 7:46 AM, goskins10 said:

 

I think you are missing the point completely.  That’s exactly what Ryp is saying. Be there early to start preparing.

 

 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:04 AM, mistertim said:

 

Isn't the film room at the facility? 

 

Ask WIll Compton.

 

 

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The Consigliere

The Consigliere

Posted
Posted
On 5/8/2019 at 8:50 AM, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

Oh boy here come the proud contrarians. Cooley the be all end on draft prospects? HahahahahahahahaHahaha, who knew?! He gets paid to stir the pot.

But but Drew Lock will be the 2nd qb taken in the top ten, book it!! Smh. LOL.... People need to just let this play out, instead of scurrying to justify their guesses, I mean takes, on how these players will pan out. Sit back and enjoy the ride instead of having your write up ready on “you see this wasn’t my guy” just to make yourselves feel like you are the best GM on a message board.

The internet is awesome gotta love it. You mean there are disparate opinions on how good Haskins will be? Shocker! He’s ours now, get on board, cuz god forbid the kid actually makes it. I promise if he does to remind you forever on the fact you didn’t want him. And if he doesn’t make it I’m sure you’ll be first in line waving a finger at yourself.. but until then, support the kid who is 21yrs old and Enjoy the ride please. Look to build him up instead of tear him down. Save us from the countless reasons he sucks and all the ways we made a mistake, that you saw coming.

Its like going to see a movie with a friend and he’s like “this movie is gonna suck, ebert only gave it 2 stars, and roper says he won’t even see it till it’s out on video, I’m telling you it’s gonna suck.” Thanks bud, can we just watch the movie please. ✌🏽

Never before agreed with something to such a degree at the start and equally sharply disagreed with everything else, and I was fine w/the Haskins pick at slot (though I would've much preferred to have traded for Rosen).  Still, regardless, I'm firmly a supporter of giving your takes, period. We have the ability to avoid reading ones we don't like, or skipping posters we don't enjoy reading. I'm not in favor of muzzling people for dissenting opinions even when it gets to be tiresome. 

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COWBOY-KILLA-

COWBOY-KILLA-

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

Never before agreed with something to such a degree at the start and equally sharply disagreed with everything else, and I was fine w/the Haskins pick at slot (though I would've much preferred to have traded for Rosen).  Still, regardless, I'm firmly a supporter of giving your takes, period. We have the ability to avoid reading ones we don't like, or skipping posters we don't enjoy reading. I'm not in favor of muzzling people for dissenting opinions even when it gets to be tiresome. 

Oh I dont want to muzzle either, I’m all about letting people speak even if it’s not what I think. It was just a slight pushback on the incessant slow drip of sludge that will permeate this discussion concerning DH. As it did with so many other topics through the years. It was more a reminder to give the guy a chance and enjoy the ride along the way. Everyone is in a rush to prove they were right. I personally just want the kid to succeed, my words will not stop the water torture that followed and will follow until we know wether he will. 

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Ask Will Compton

 

 

On watching film and the whole 'first in last out' thing.

 

There is no doubt that work ethic and 'putting in the time' is crucial for an NFL QB. Crucial. The mental requirements of mastering your own offense AND the defensive looks you will be seeing AND the adjustments based on those looks just demands it.

 

But its 2019 people. Film can be broken down by the analysis team and sent in clips as required to an ipad/tablet - you want to see every third and 7 look from an opposing defense, here you go. Want to see how they defended every single 1st down this season when they were against 21 personnel, here you are. Want to see isolation on a specific corner and how he plays a specific route or route combination, not a problem.

 

Watching 'film' is now much easier, much more productive - and can be done literally anywhere. The back seat of a Bentley for example ...

 

Spending time in the facility and watching some of this with coaches and other QBs is important. But (metaphorically) sleeping on a fold up bed in the training room is not a measure of anything really.

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

Posted
Posted

Hogshaven has a nice article on Jay's love for Haskins. I just finished it and he outlines Jay's praise. Here's the conclusion. but the article is worth a read. 

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/5/20/18631186/why-im-excited-about-dwayne-haskins

 



Jay clearly loves what he’s seen from Dwayne Haskins so far, and, while there’s a long way to go before the regular season starts, it seems as if Redskin fans have every reason to believe in their new quarterback of the future.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Which Foster ?

Any more details on what happened ?

 

Reuben Foster, there is a whole thread on it, its not good. 

15 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I kinda hope they dont just give us one side of the competition. I wanna know how Keenum looks too. 

 

 

 

 

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