FootballZombie Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, skinfan2k said: Alex Smith would make guys like Golden Gandy and Inman worth while pieces in this offense. Haskins makes no one makes better. Gibson and Tmac are natural playmakers. The job of the QB is to make those non playmakers into valuable pieces. Tubro and Gibson had over 100 scrimage yards apiece. We are not having too much issues getting those guys the ball these last two weeks. Gandy-Golden gets like 3 pass play reps a game. Inman is coming off a 2 TD performance. I'd say all those guys are being maximized. what more do you want from those guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: yeah, but Smith never overcame a deficit...if we went down 3-0 it was a guaranteed loss lol. Hell, forget winning, if we were behind he never once orchestrated a drive that resulted in taking the lead during the game. No way we would have come back from being down 17-0 to the eagles or 17-7 to the Browns. On the flip side, though, if we were ever ahead it was a guaranteed win lol...we go up 3-0, chalk one up in the Win column, didn't even need to keep watching. Very strange year. and yet we were 6-3 with him. He was a game manager who let the other team better and played ball control. Shorten the game and force the other team to make mistakes. Meanwhile we have a clown right now who goes 3 and out and lets the defense get beaten like a drum after we get down 14-0 immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, KDawg said: Not that he needs me to, but I’ll step in on Steve’s behalf. He likes Haskins and has. Disagreement there aside, he’s one of the better posters on this board as far as overall football conversation and knowledge. I know you specifically said “in this thread” but I don’t think it’s fair to call out a guy like Steve, with a pretty good overall track record quite like that. Just my opinion. I appreciate your sentiment, and I know you argue and give takes in good faith and I respect you and your knowledge. But I'm not worried about that guy. He's just a troll who is desperate for attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said: Tubro and Gibson had over 100 scrimage yards apiece. We are not having too much issues getting those guys the ball these last two weeks. Gandy-Golden gets like 3 pass play reps a game. Inman is coming off a 2 TD performance. I'd say all those guys are being maximized. what more do you want from those guys? wow you literally picked my two names. How about any of the 3 TEs or any other offensive player? When do we hear a stat from Haskins that he has thrown to 7 or 8 different Receivers. never, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, skinfan2k said: wow you literally picked my two names. How about any of the 3 TEs or any other offensive player? When do we hear a stat from Haskins that he has thrown to 7 or 8 different Receivers. never, Wow? those were the exact two players you were complaining about. and Haskins literally completed passes to 7 diff players and targeted 8 like 4 hours ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Well I’ve seen Colt McCoy mentioned in this thread and his name still makes me irrational annoyed so I’m gonna sit this one out. some of you folks are maniacs lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 40 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: What puzzles me is that you can acknowledge that the organization completely **** the bed with him, but that you still think there is some unique and meaningful failure on the part of Haskins that has ruined his development here. TBH, I think you don't have a broad perspective on how these young QBs behave and develop. Haskins's on-field struggles have been normal. The stuff he says and does is normal for these young guys. Some of our fans harp on the very mild moments of negativity and frustration he has from time to time because they've got a ****ing weird and personal thing about the guy. But Haskins's public persona is absolutely vanilla young jock and he's never done anything remotely like go off on a reporter because he couldn't read a defense or tweet out something dumb and racist. What's not normal is the level of dysfunction of the team. Bad organizations **** up quarterback prospects and we're one of the bad ones. It's getting more and more obvious that this is typically what happens when QB prospects fail to develop because home scouting has become so much easier and more ubiquitous. I remember watching Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen when they were good and playing like studs first hand. I remember watching Dwayne Haskins kick ass when he was playing for a team that was actually good. What amazes me is the mentality of the average fan. We change players all of the time, lose continuously, and the average fan still believes the problem is the players. That if we keep making a change at QB, then we'll eventually find the guy who will make us truly competitive. I wonder when it's going to finally and fully set in that franchise QBs are made rather than found. I imagine it certainly won't happen for this fanbase until we see the process fully play out first hand with our team. I also think we're all pretty much desperately trying to ignore the major structural issues we've got with this rebuild--that our ownership situation is uncertain moving forward. That we don't have a real GM or a coherent or proven FO structure and staff. That the HC we've concentrated a massive amount of responsibility and power upon has a serious and deadly disease. That we've got a bunch of lawsuits and investigations of misconduct going on that could strip away draft picks and/or cap space. Instead we spent 600 pages arguing over our QB's social media posts and whether or not some career back up QB could come in and get this thing turned around. Funny thing is that Haskins is an extension of the failure of ownership and you’re ignoring that. The owner turned back the clock to 1999 and meddled his way into overdrafting a kid that wasn’t ready to even take preseason reps. Dwayne Haskins is the last bastion of the Snyder/Allen regime imo. And i think Ron Rivera realizes that. The selection of Dwayne Haskins was a structural issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinbuck Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I want to hear what really transpired on the 4th and 9. Turner specifically asked him to throw into the EZ, and he still dumped it off after surveying the options for less than 2 seconds Was it an act of defiance, or did he feel pressured to keep his INT score clean, or did he see something that made throwing into the end zone feel like mission impossible? how can someone who’s been a QB all his life not know situational football? Situational football, to me, is just a fancy name for, football! I mean this is basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, KDawg said: I don’t know, man. I think you like Haskins and you don’t like criticism of him. You’ve blamed everyone but him for his play. You and I have never seen eye to eye on him and likely won’t. I respect your talent evaluation and we all have those guys we love that pan out or we don’t think got a fair shake. To be fair, Haskins didn’t get a fair shake here. Drafting him to this organization with no line, a lame duck HC and GM, no weapons and a rebuilding defense was a big time blunder. Especially because he’s a guy that is a pocket passer and requires time to learn protections and basics because of being a pocket guy. It certainly doesn’t help that the FO guys reportedly didn’t want him and Snyder did. With the coaches and FO not on the same page as the owner with the pick, you’re fighting a really uphill battle. But Haskins hasn’t helped himself in the least. Mannerisms, play, comments, etc. This sums up for me too. Like you I respect @stevemcqueen1 greatly as a poster. And i know he's coming at this from a pure football perspective. This is one of the rare times I disagree with him but I hope he's vindicated and ends up right. You got some hot-emotions on the QB threads like always. I think by a mile there have been more bitterness on the QBs threads over the years than any other. We all want a franchise QB badly. I think that's the heart of it. And some of us are frustrated when we feel this isn't the guy and want to open up door #2. And conversely others are frustrated when they think he is the guy and we just need to be patient. And I agree with your sentiment on this -- no need IMO for name calling on it, etc. It's just different opinions, talking football. For me its nothing personal, as I've shared, I've met Haskins, he was super cool to my kids. I've defended his personality on this thread multiple times. And man do i want a franchise QB. nothing would please me more than Haskins being the dude. But I recall my impression after watching a number of his college games and i wrote up a long report on the draft thread. I first was enamored by Haskins judging by his stats and casually watching some of his games but my opinion changed when a regular on the draft thread pushed me to take a much closer look. I am just a layman having fun so i am not saying my opinion means a hill of beans but heck that's the whole point of the draft thread which is to study and land on an opinion. And i did about Haskins. And really almost everything I thought about Haskins has played out. Do i blame context and circumstance for the dude not reaching his potential? Yeah to an extent. But I don't primarily blame context. Haskins IMO needs to fix some fundamental issues in his game that IMO have nothing to do with whether he has breakout weapons or whether the HC supported him. And in my humble opinion, he hasn't done that yet. And I'd add I had the luxury of watching him throw a ton in practice during camp. And the dude's accuracy in terms of where he was hot and cold mirrored almost identically what we've seen so far in the NFL. In camp, many of those throws had no one even rushing Haskins, it was pure pitch and catch. So I just don't buy that the throws he struggles with are mostly a product of his supporting cast. I do agree that a great supporting cast would make Haskins look better. But IMO the dude's issue is footwork-accuracy and granted its easier to fix when you have more time in the pocket. Yet, fixing accuracy isn't according to some like PFF among others easy period. Some things aren't easily fixed. And according to a number of smart football people accuracy problems aren't a piece of cake to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Haskins is a project. The talent is there but he has significant flaws. The truth is he'd have been better off as a 2nd or 3rd round pick and sitting for a year, maybe two. But today's NFL just doesn't work like that. You play right away so you can take advantage of a QB on a rookie deal for 4-5 years. Yeah people point to Mahomes sitting his rookie year but the Chiefs had Alex Smith playing at a very high level that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Alex Smith sucked for years until the 49ers made an elite defense, and Alex Smith sucked while he was here. Nothing against him, but he wasn’t good. He was brought in to start and eventually be a mentor. The idea the he would make this offense look that much better is ridiculous. Let the guy learn the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Did he really throw almost 38% of his passes behind the LOS today? Hell. That must be by design. I think the coaches understand Haskins isn't capable of pushing the ball downfield, so they're giving him layups to build his confidence and establish rhythm. However, you're not going to win many games by doing the Jason Campbell special. If Haskins isn't picking up the playbook fast enough, or is incapable or unwilling to stretch the field, then we need to find a new QB. Herbert and Burrow are young, in their first season, and didn't even have an off-season, yet they are playing very well and giving their teams chances to win. Haskins needs to show something more, or go ride the pine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, skinbuck said: I want to hear what really transpired on the 4th and 9. Turner specifically asked him to throw into the EZ, and he still dumped it off after surveying the options for less than 2 seconds Was it an act of defiance, or did he feel pressured to keep his INT score clean, or did he see something that made throwing into the end zone feel like mission impossible? how can someone who’s been a QB all his life not know situational football? Situational football, to me, is just a fancy name for, football! I mean this is basics. That looked like a bad playcall that had me asking what the timing and concept was, and questioning if our coaches were calling the game to win. Beating an 8 man prevent zone with two or three deep? The formation was crappy, you had a tight 1x3 with a flexed TE alone on the field side (who is the weakest link in the offense) and a delayed release to the flat from a back who is a mediocre catch and run option in a situation where you need seams in those zones, a quick release, and no extra protection. That concept needed more spacing, more verticality and/or more levels. At the very least, why not put Terry on the field side of that formation and split him out wide so there is at least a chance at a window of one on one coverage with a guy who can make a play? I think Haskins dumped it to Wright after sitting on the throw because he was the only one open on a doomed play design against what was very obviously going to be an 8 man prevent. The thought process is--the play is broken. Now my options are keep waiting and hoping something off-script comes up, force a throw to a double or triple covered option, or take that YAC option now before the window completely closes too and hope he can make some magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Haskins is a project. The talent is there but he has significant flaws. The truth is he'd have been better off as a 2nd or 3rd round pick and sitting for a year, maybe two. But today's NFL just doesn't work like that. You play right away so you can take advantage of a QB on a rookie deal for 4-5 years. Yeah people point to Mahomes sitting his rookie year but the Chiefs had Alex Smith playing at a very high level that year. Projects have a chance to work when the current staff and front office make the pick. The owner’s project forced on the last staff dumped on the new staff isn’t likely to pan out. Particularly when the new head coach/gm has implementing a new culture as his top priority. What is surprising is the pearl clutching and shock when it doesn’t pan out. When has a QB we drafted reasonably panned out long term as a franchise QB? Probably a single one in franchise history in 1937 Sammy Baugh. Norm Snead in 1961 was ok. Maybe Jay Schroeder was serviceable. One legitimate franchise QB ever drafted in 88 years of history. Yet people are still surprised when a prospect doesn’t pan out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 He didn’t even give that 4th and goal time to work. Of course the defense is going to have the advantage of playing back and forcing everything underneath. Good qbs buy time and try to make a play in the end zone. Haskins wasn’t even thinking end zone, just his safe dump route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said: He didn’t even give that 4th and goal time to work. Of course the defense is going to have the advantage of playing back and forcing everything underneath. Good qbs buy time and try to make a play in the end zone. Haskins wasn’t even thinking end zone, just his safe dump route. He's reading McLauren and Inman first on that play. Looked like Wright was the third option. We can't tell what happened in the end zone from the broadcast view, but it's a safe bet that McLauren and Inman weren't open against an eight man prevent. That was a doomed call. How is a two deep concept from a tight three WR grouping on the boundary side possibly going to create the space for a throw against that kind of zone, crowding any throw to the sticks? Stuff like this is a coaching failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: He's reading McLauren and Inman first on that play. Looked like Wright was the third option. We can't tell what happened in the end zone from the broadcast view, but it's a safe bet that McLauren and Inman weren't open against an eight man prevent. That was a doomed call. How is a two deep concept from a tight three WR grouping on the boundary side possibly going to create the space for a throw against that kind of zone, crowding any throw to the sticks? Stuff like this is a coaching failure. he didn’t even give it time. He looked at them before they could even get to the end zone. It was a 3 man rush and he quickly threw the out before he had any pressure. There is no justifying that. Just a terrible play by Haskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 It was 4th down and forever while down multiple scores. Just throw the ball in the endzone and take a chance. Unless Ron Rivera is a complete asshole, no one is going to ding Haskins for throwing a pick or having a turnover worthy play (shoutout to PFF). The play doesn’t require a lot of debate. They probably should have kicked a FG but they didn’t. It was basically a last second Hail Mary heave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said: he didn’t even give it time. He looked at them before they could even get to the end zone. It was a 3 man rush and he quickly threw the out before he had any pressure. There is no justifying that. Just a terrible play by Haskins He threw the ball at the bottom of his drop. Wright ran his full route. That's on time, not rushed. You don't think the playcall was the real issue with that play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just now, stevemcqueen1 said: He threw the ball at the bottom of his drop. Wright ran his full route. That's on time, not rushed. You don't think the playcall was the real issue with that play? This is extreme Haskins homerism. Go watch the play again. There is zero excuse for throwing that out that fast. It was a 3 man rush and he didn’t even step up in the pocket to give receivers time to run their routes or work to get open. Come on now, you can at least criticize him for that. That was not a smart play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Damn i missed that agent tweet. yeah, the writing is on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said: Damn i missed that agent tweet. yeah, the writing is on the wall. We haven’t drafted a viable franchise QB who worked out long term for us since 1937. Dan Snyder’s handpicked choice wasn’t the second in 83 years? What a shocker! Who could see that coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 hours ago, httr2020dynasty said: This is extreme Haskins homerism. Go watch the play again. There is zero excuse for throwing that out that fast. It was a 3 man rush and he didn’t even step up in the pocket to give receivers time to run their routes or work to get open. Come on now, you can at least criticize him for that. That was not a smart play. I've watched it several times. It seems like you're not getting that Wright ran his entire route--a long developing out no less--and that Haskins threw the ball on time for the design of the play. Plays are designed for the ball to come out when you complete your drop. Do you really think a three deep concept is going to get open against 8 playing deep zones by extending the play? That is a completely unrealistic expectation against any NFL coverage unit. Especially when you've crowded three receivers boundary side on a play the defense knows has to go to the sticks. It was a brain dead concept to run in that situation. The kind if **** you'd call in a preseason game, not a regular season game you're trying to win. That was a basic and obvious play calling error. The fact that Turner called a six man protection against what was very obviously going to be a three man rush should be clueing people into that. And that fact that so many people aren't picking up on these coaching issues and are instead entirely blaming Haskins for them is revealing. It explains why you actually think going to one of the back ups would have us winning these games. No. Turner is learning on the job as much as the players are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said: Damn i missed that agent tweet. yeah, the writing is on the wall. What was this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: What was this? https://fansided.com/2020/10/04/dwayne-haskins-agent-mad-client-fire-washington/ I think its this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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