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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

If you cant protect long enough to run say an angle route - you don't have an offense. Which may be the case ...


Right, was excited to see this element in the offense. Give us an option route, in or out, or angle with Mckissic or Gibson. I mean did get to see a wheel route with Gibson and that was one of the more exciting throws of the game lol 

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Just now, MartinC said:

 

He had 12 starts in the offense last season for the Panthers. You seem to have made up your mind about Haskins in this system after 2 starts.

 

I'd give him at least two more starts. But my expectations of him were very low to start the season after watching him last year and being last in QBR and the team being last or second to last in most passing categories doesn't surprise me. The bar is set so low he doesn't have to do much to earn more starts in my book though. All he has to show is that we can be slightly better than worst in the league. But if we continue to be noncompetitive offensively, I wouldn't mind a short leash to see if we could compete for the NFC East.  

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Haskins is Campbell 2.0. Even their first seasons are similar. And if you project Haskins’ stats from the first two games this season into a 13 game output which Campbell had in his second season, it’s eerily similar. 

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He refers to that if this ends up a bad season for the NFC East.  Sort of like 2015 when we won the season at 9-7.  They way I took his point is if the defense keeps us in it and no one is running away with the division then you'd bench Haskins perhaps to see if you can make a run otherwise let him play out the season. 

 

His points were more or less:

A.  Accuracy typically isn't easy to improve

B.  The exceptions to it are typically QBs who are mega talented in other ways

C.  Haskins isn't the type of QB to carry a team, he needs a big time supporting cast

D.  If the WFT can take one of the top QBs in the next draft, they should

 

I was being quasi-facetious, but he's right, over all (but still, there is no way, no how we are winning more than 5). It looks like I was wrong--I figured mechanical issues are easier to correct through repetition. Too bad we can't mix the physical tools of someone like Griffin with Haskins' leadership, release, and decision making.

 

We agree on the last 2--as we've discussed. If we're not Top-2 next year, build around Haskins--give him a last shot in 2021. Draft a top QB in 2021 (albeit, I have no idea who is coming out then).

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2 hours ago, KDawg said:


Im not sure they know more about building a team. They know more about it from a financial/salary cap/business model than most of us, though. And that’s a big reason why QBs are as valued as they are.

 

Aaron Donald is the best football player in the world. And people know he’s amazing. But when you hear the general public, the consumer, talk football... they talk about quarterbacks. 
 

They make money. 
 

That’s not to say that having an elite guy isn’t the way to win. It is. But he has to be elite. And missing hurts. Especially if you don’t own it and move on.

If you are saying that a professional general manager doesn't know more about building a team roster  than we do and I think I'm going to end this discussion now

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6 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

 I wouldn't mind a short leash to see if we could compete for the NFC East.  

 

You have got to be kidding me. Compete for the NFC East???

 

We have one of the least talented groups of offensive players in the league. Possibly the worst group of skill players and bottom three or four O'Line. This is a rebuilding year in which we are evaluating who should stay. Rivera understands that and has said it could be next year at the soonest before the offense gets close to where it could be.

 

Let's be realistic people and understand where we are - because that informs a lot of what you will see.

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1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

I have no idea what is happening with the backs and the passing game. We heard all summer about what a big part they would play in the passing scheme, and part of why AP was released was because he didn't fit in that intention. On Sunday we had 3 targets to backs for 1 catch for -3 yards.

 

Getting RBs involved in the passing game, getting Haskins some easy completions, getting into 2nd and short more, using screens ti help slow the pass rush ... all this is kind of football 101 and I am really confused as to why its not happening.

yeah if anything I was concerned they were going to be throwing too much to the backs. This makes very little sense to me. I love to see Gibson in the open field play on the role of Darren Sproles

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Just now, BayouBrave86 said:

Haskins is Campbell 2.0. Even their first seasons are similar. And if you project Haskins’ stats from the first two games this season into a 13 game output which Campbell had in his second season, it’s eerily similar. 

 

Interesting comparison.  Please share those numbers. If I remember correctly, Campbell didn't take a snap in his 1st year. Then his 2nd year was in the same system even though he only started maybe half the year. 

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3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

You have got to be kidding me. Compete for the NFC East???

 

We have one of the least talented groups of offensive players in the league. Possibly the worst group of skill players and bottom three or four O'Line. This is a rebuilding year in which we are evaluating who should stay. Rivera understands that and has said it could be next year at the soonest before the offense gets close to where it could be.

 

Let's be realistic people and understand where we are - because that informs a lot of what you will see.

I'm with you again. I don't understand why people expect that we're a credible contender. Even if we did win the division, so what? We're not going anywhere. 

 

And again that's what's so frustrating. Either commit to trying to win or commit to evaluation for long term. Right now they're just playing football. I'd rather make mistakes and win big or lose big, or play conservatively so we don't thoroughly embarrass ourselves. 

11 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

Haskins is Campbell 2.0. Even their first seasons are similar. And if you project Haskins’ stats from the first two games this season into a 13 game output which Campbell had in his second season, it’s eerily similar. 

Campbell had so much more around him including a pro-bowl RB in his prime.

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1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

You have got to be kidding me. Compete for the NFC East???

 

We have one of the least talented groups of offensive players in the league. Possibly the worst group of skill players and bottom three or four O'Line. This is a rebuilding year in which we are evaluating who should stay. Rivera understands that and has said it could be next year at the soonest before the offense gets close to where it could be.

 

Let's be realistic people and understand where we are - because that informs a lot of what you will see.

 

The NFC East is the worst division in football and our defense is good enough to make us competitive especially our front 7. If we just had any ability to throw the ball we could compete. We don't need much from the offense to be a competitive team we just need better than worst in the league. Wouldn't hurt at all to see if Allen gives you a better chance to win than Haskins. It's not like we can be much worse.

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1 minute ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

The NFC East is the worst division in football and our defense is good enough to make us competitive especially our front 7. If we just had any ability to throw the ball we could compete. We don't need much from the offense to be a competitive team we just need better than worst in the league. Wouldn't hurt at all to see if Allen gives you a better chance to win than Haskins. It's not like we can be much worse.

With no OL, no WR, no corners and an unproven QB, you're literally only banking on your front 4 to win you a division.

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think the Haskins debate is getting a bit intense. 😄   I think there is an underpinning though to some of these arguments where people aren't going to see eye to eye because the underpinning is different.  

 

Camp A:  Haskins is mega talented.  He's a franchise QB and its borderline obvious.  We just need to be patient with him.  Everyone needs to chill and factor the mitigating factors that are delaying his progress.  Give him time and you will likely see it.  They don't say its 100% slam dunk but its likely to go down for him being the guy so don't ruin it with impatience.  And they are very passionate about explaining his attributes and all the mitigating factors in the way for him to succeed. 

 

Camp B:  Haskins has talent but has serious weaknesses too, he's boom-bust.  And the bust potential is very real.  If those same weaknesses manifest over time the thoughts about bust magnify.    There are some QB's who scream franchise QB, Haskins isn't one of those dudes but at the same time its possible.   

 

Camp C  He doesn't have it, bust waiting to happen

 

Camp D. He is the Redskins QB so lets have his back and ride this to the end no matter what.

 

Camp E.  A mix of all of that.

 

So yeah if the premise of where we are on Haskins is different, we aren't going to agree on where this should go.   I am firmly in the B category.  I don't think he's screaming franchise QB type material.  I think if he fixed his flaws he would be but those flaws aren't ones that are that easy to fix.   I also have limits for how long I'd be willing to wait if another opportunity arises.  He can become a franchise guy.  But to me i see bust potential, too or he just ends up "meh".  And there is a limit to my patience watching Haskins develop.  And its not because I disagree with a broad principle of giving QB's time.  

 

If I was in love with Haskins before the draft, I am sure I'd feel entirely differently about this and in turn wouldn't understand people's impatience.  But that's not how I feel about Haskins.  It's how i feel about players I did love before we drafted them like Chase, Gibson, and McLaurin.  i am not saying I am right.  Who knows?  But all we got is our opinion so I am running with mine. 😀

 

And I always root for every player we got to turn out whether I loved them in the draft or not.   But I want the team to win so if an opportunity arose to upgrade I'd do it.  My loyalty isn't to a player but the team. 

 

I took plenty of slings and arrows defending our young QBs (pretty much all of them) on different threads early on.  So i get the calls for patience.  I've made the same claim plenty of times.  But I am burned out on it.  This thread isn't a heck of a lot different than our previous threads as to our young Qbs. Similar arguments, different day.  It's not that i think Haskins can't break that bad streak we are on with young QBs -- but the arguments about riding the flashes, supporting cast, coaching, patience are eerily similar.  So I hope its not a bad omen. 😀

 

And since I wasn't a Haskins guy before the draft, I got some limits on how long I am willing to call for patience for him.  I definitely give him the whole season.  I definitely think the dude has a shot.  But if he plays like this througout the season, I am not giving him a pass then.  And in 2 seconds I would draft another QB in that context if one falls that they love.   But as for this season, will see.  I am open minded.  I think he does have a bounce back game next week.  

 

 

Good summation. 

I am in the Camp E.

He is improving with his decision making just wished he would improve with his accuracy.

His lack of accuracy to me is the glaring shortcoming to his game. 

Right about now, I will take a Captain Checkdown to keep the chains moving but he is not even good at the checkdowns... our backs have to gather themselves to adjust to the pass and that action negates the advantage of checking down. For other QBs the checkdown looks like an extended handoff, when it comes to Dwayne, it looks like a complicated pass. 

 

I will give the kid a pass if he able to retain the ball and not give it the other team. But he just has to get better. 

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree a young stud QB pays the biggest dividends when they aren't being paid.  But look at a team like Seattle, they are always relevant even though they are paying Wilson.  But the best window is early, I agree with that.

 


Seattle was more relevant before they paid him though. He takes a lot of hits. That’s too much on one guy for me, I just don’t think it’s necessary. They should have lost to a NE team who got a cheap QB & had most of their key defensive players opt out at the last minute. 

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17 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

If you are saying that a professional general manager doesn't know more about building a team roster  than we do and I think I'm going to end this discussion now


I’m saying they aren’t infallible 

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3 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

With no OL, no WR, no corners and an unproven QB, you're literally only banking on your front 4 to win you a division.

 

I just don't understand what would be the harm in seeing if Allen gives us a better chance to compete if our offense continues to be noncompetitive. If Rivera's regime drafted Haskins I can see the loyalty to the process, but since we start with a clean slate, I wouldn't care if he tried out his guy. 

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10 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

The NFC East is the worst division in football and our defense is good enough to make us competitive especially our front 7.

 

The front 4 is one of the best in the league - the linebacker's average at best and the secondary is below average (we may have the worst FS in the league). I don't care how good your front 4 are - you need more behind them to have a defense good enough to carry this offense. 

 

Quote

 

If we just had any ability to throw the ball we could compete. We don't need much from the offense to be a competitive team we just need better than worst in the league. Wouldn't hurt at all to see if Allen gives you a better chance to win than Haskins. It's not like we can be much worse.

 

the ability to throw the ball is about more than the QB. Its about pass protection and receivers who can win and create separation - the only guy we have who can do that is Terry and teams can scheme to at least limit him because there is no one else they have to worry about as a match up. Unless you have a top 4 or 5 QB available to bring in - a Russell Wilson or Pat Mahomes - a QB change will achieve nothing.

 

And it could very easily get worse - at least Haskins is taking care of the football, you put a QB in who starts turning it over and thats all she wrote.

 

Thew NFC East is one of the worst divisions in the league - but we are one of the worst teams in the league. Compare us to the talent the Cowboys have on offense and tell me with a straight face you think we can compete with them for the division ...

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20 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I was being quasi-facetious, but he's right, over all (but still, there is no way, no how we are winning more than 5). It looks like I was wrong--I figured mechanical issues are easier to correct through repetition. Too bad we can't mix the physical tools of someone like Griffin with Haskins' leadership, release, and decision making.

 

We agree on the last 2--as we've discussed. If we're not Top-2 next year, build around Haskins--give him a last shot in 2021. Draft a top QB in 2021 (albeit, I have no idea who is coming out then).

 

I don't know if you are wrong.  You might be right.  For me, i am not banking on accuracy issues being fixed.  I think its a major red flag.    That's the thesis of PFF's point about QBs.  I've seen them make it about other Qbs aside from Haskins.  The reason why I don't give Haskins a ton of slack on accuracy issues is I saw him throw a lot in camp with no pass rush at all and he was wild.

 

Can he overcome that eventually, maybe.  But I don't feel like he should get a long leash to find out if we end up with other attractive options. 

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4 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I just don't understand what would be the harm in seeing if Allen gives us a better chance to compete if our offense continues to be noncompetitive. If Rivera's regime drafted Haskins I can see the loyalty to the process, but since we start with a clean slate, I wouldn't care if he tried out his guy. 

 

The first step is to start an "Allies for Allen" thread

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6 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I just don't understand what would be the harm in seeing if Allen gives us a better chance to compete if our offense continues to be noncompetitive. If Rivera's regime drafted Haskins I can see the loyalty to the process, but since we start with a clean slate, I wouldn't care if he tried out his guy. 

Because you're giving up completely on Haskins if you do that. Even if he comes in later on in the season, again, there's no way to evaluate him coming in a second time and you can't afford to just wait and see next year. 

 

Like it or not, we're riding this season with Haskins. Allen is ONLY there because he already knows the offense so if he needs to come in on an emergency basis he'll at least be able to move the offense. What direction? Based on his 1:1 TD/INT ratio that's anyone's guess. 

2 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

The first step is to start an "Allies for Allen" thread

Wouldn't it be All in for Allen?

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24 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

The front 4 is one of the best in the league - the linebacker's average at best and the secondary is below average (we may have the worst FS in the league). I don't care how good your front 4 are - you need more behind them to have a defense good enough to carry this offense. 

 

 

the ability to throw the ball is about more than the QB. Its about pass protection and receivers who can win and create separation - the only guy we have who can do that is Terry and teams can scheme to at least limit him because there is no one else they have to worry about as a match up. Unless you have a top 4 or 5 QB available to bring in - a Russell Wilson or Pat Mahomes - a QB change will achieve nothing.

 

And it could very easily get worse - at least Haskins is taking care of the football, you put a QB in who starts turning it over and thats all she wrote.

 

Thew NFC East is one of the worst divisions in the league - but we are one of the worst teams in the league. Compare us to the talent the Cowboys have on offense and tell me with a straight face you think we can compete with them for the division ...

 

Maybe I'm just a homer but with our schedule and the Cowboys schedule I can see a battle for 7-9, or 8-8 winning the division. The question is why wouldn't you want to see us compete if a different qb can make us more competitive this year? Do you honestly like what you're seeing on the field? With our defensive front 7 and our ability to pressure qbs (Arizona is a bad matchup), we can be a competitive team in our division. Me personally, I hope Rivera is different and someone that doesn't settle for terrible just because we "drafted him". If our offense continues to be noncompetitive yet our defense is giving us a chance, I really hope Rivera gives Allen a shot. We don't need a coach that has patience with mediocre, we've had plenty of those guys in the last 30 years. 

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