MartinC Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, KDawg said: This is something I can get with you on, HTTR. The line is bad and needs improvement before we can say we have Haskins a fair chance. Better blocking and a better scheme to get him some open targets to hit. But when he has open targets he has to hit them much more consistently than he has done so far. He is leaving plays in the field he just can't because we don't have the talent to have any margin for error on offense. But this has to be allowed to play out - we have to see if Haskins can develop despite whats around him and if the scheme/play calling can develop to give him a better chance as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 49 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said: Yea, Allen played terrible after starting the season 5-1. But what he showed in those first 6 games is more potential than Haskins has shown. Rather see if that's the Allen we get or the Allen that played the Redskins. Because what we're doing now is not working. I don't think Rivera owes Haskins any playing time if Allen proves to be better. I don’t know if that’s true. Outside of his first start his numbers in the next 5 games were very pedestrian. He was a game manager leaning heavily on CMC who was getting significantly more carries than he normally got. 5 minutes ago, MartinC said: Better blocking and a better scheme to get him some open targets to hit. But when he has open targets he has to hit them much more consistently than he has done so far. He is leaving plays in the field he just can't because we don't have the talent to have any margin for error on offense. But this has to be allowed to play out - we have to see if Haskins can develop despite whats around him and if the scheme/play calling can develop to give him a better chance as well. They need to get the backs more involved in the passing game. Right now it’s fairly predictable how they’re used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Sewell, what a player I have no idea why I thought of this...I just did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Anyone touched by this franchise is cursed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: I don’t know if that’s true. Outside of his first start his numbers in the next 5 games were very pedestrian. He was a game manager leaning heavily on CMC who was getting significantly more carries than he normally got. I mean, he completed 62% of his passes threw for 3,300 yards and 17tds/16ints. So whatever the excuses are for those numbers they are not bad for first year starter numbers. I wouldn't mind giving the 24 year old a chance. I just don't see what you guys see in Haskins. I think he's the big reason our offense is terrible even though we have a bad o line and tight ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Tannahill and Garapolo were two of the QBs in the Championship games last year. We need a major upgrade on our offense, QB is a question mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I wonder if I'm allowed to compare the beginning of Haskins' career to Jared Goff's or if the Comparison Police will be out to get me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said: I mean, he completed 62% of his passes threw for 3,300 yards and 17tds/16ints. So whatever the excuses are for those numbers they are not bad for first year starter numbers. I wouldn't mind giving the 24 year old a chance. I just don't see what you guys see in Haskins. I think he's the big reason our offense is terrible even though we have a bad o line and tight ends. Those are not good numbers. Especially bad when you consider a majority of his completions were the CMC at or near the LOS where he did most of the work. That’s what we should be doing with Gibson right now. Not using him as a traditional H-back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 12 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I wonder if I'm allowed to compare the beginning of Haskins' career to Jared Goff's or if the Comparison Police will be out to get me. In good spirits, I'd say you do the comparison stuff on this thread as much as anyone. It's just a different slant of the comparisons typically. That's all. All in a good spirit of a debate from everyone here. The QB threads have been heated over the years, this one is no different. 😀 Like I said, I think its pretty simple. Some are predisposed to think Haskins is the right guy. And some aren't. When you have people with different premises behind their points the conclusions aren't going to be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: They need to get the backs more involved in the passing game. Right now it’s fairly predictable how they’re used. I have no idea what is happening with the backs and the passing game. We heard all summer about what a big part they would play in the passing scheme, and part of why AP was released was because he didn't fit in that intention. On Sunday we had 3 targets to backs for 1 catch for -3 yards. Getting RBs involved in the passing game, getting Haskins some easy completions, getting into 2nd and short more, using screens ti help slow the pass rush ... all this is kind of football 101 and I am really confused as to why its not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, MartinC said: I have no idea what is happening with the backs and the passing game. We heard all summer about what a big part they would play in the passing scheme, and part of why AP was released was because he didn't fit in that intention. On Sunday we had 3 targets to backs for 1 catch for -3 yards. Getting RBs involved in the passing game, getting Haskins some easy completions, getting into 2nd and short more, using screens ti help slow the pass rush ... all this is kind of football 101 and I am really confused as to why its not happening. you need more time for the RBs to come out of the backfield. Can't all be screens. If you need 3.7 seconds or whatever for the RB to fake pass protection and then get out as a catcher, and the QB is under pressure well before then. Well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 PFF guy here. It's more negative than positive but an interesting read because he makes points we've all made here, including upgrading the offensive supporting cast. Yet beyond that, there is the question as to whether the passer has shown enough raw talent to provide hope for the future. According to Pro Football Focus' Associate Director of Content Austin Gayle, that hasn't been the case. Based on what he's seen so far -- despite it being a limited sample size -- Gayle believes the Haskins' era may be a short one. “I think the Dwayne Haskins’ experiment, unless massive things change for the rest of this year, is going to end in Washington," Gayle said on 106.7's The Sports Junkies. What does that mean for the future of the position in Washington? For Gayle, should the franchise once again find itself in a position to make a top pick next April, a quarterback should be at the top of its draft board. “I think if the Washington Football team is in a position to grab one of these big three quarterbacks in 2021...I think they’re going to have to pull the trigger," Gayle said. Gayle is referring to Clemson's Trevor Lawrence, Ohio State's Justin Fields and North Dakota State's Trey Lance. All three are talented prospects with bright futures, but isn't that exactly where Dwayne Haskins was two years ago? Before evaluating new arms, the focus -- for now -- remains on the man who is under center in Washington. Why is there a belief that in Year 2 his fate is already decided? In Gayle's eyes, it all stems from Haskins' accuracy issues. The eye test and numbers will show you that Haskins misses passes, and he misses high. Head coach Ron Rivera says he knows how to fix that, but now it needs to be fixed. The problem with the inaccuracy, however, isn't just about Haskins. It's about how other quarterbacks with the same issues have fared. According to the PFF metrics, accuracy problems don't just correct themselves over the years. More often than not, they remain. “The problem for me, and the reason why I’m willing to call it is looking at last year and through two games this year, he is up there with the least accurate quarterbacks in the NFL," Gayle said. "We have yet to see quarterbacks that aren’t accurate with the football progress significantly.” Gayle used Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson and Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen -- who Haskins has mirrored to begin his career -- as examples. Both have struggled with accuracy since entering the league in 2018 and they still make throws that are way off target. One may think "Well, Jackson won an MVP and Allen is off to an incredible start in 2020, so there has to be work-arounds to accuracy issues?" That is true, but it is largely due to the other intangibles the two have. Allen has arm strength that mimics Patrick Mahomes as well as some sneaky athleticism while Jackson has defenders looking like pretzels on a weekly basis. They can cover up a problem by being great in other areas. Gayle doesn't believe Haskins can do the same. “I don’t see Dwayne Haskins being a top-fifteen quarterback from an accuracy perspective," Gayle said. "And for that reason, he doesn’t have the arm talent, the moxie, the running ability to overcome that." While Gayle makes the argument that Haskins doesn't have the skills to be elite, others will say that teams can win with the right system and a good supporting cast. Once again that is true, but it will make things a lot tougher for Washington. Gayle explained that if Washington wants to compete with Haskins, they'll need to support him with a dominant offensive line. He'll also require Terry McLaurin and other elite receiving options. It's not only challenging to acquire that much talent, it's costly as well. ‘When you have a quarterback that isn’t the quarterback but just a quarterback it’s that much harder to build around him with supporting casts," Gayle said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, MartinC said: Getting RBs involved in the passing game, getting Haskins some easy completions, getting into 2nd and short more, using screens ti help slow the pass rush ... all this is kind of football 101 and I am really confused as to why its not happening. I have not been overly thrilled with Turner's play calling--it doesn't look anything like what we were promised. What I've noticed though, in the few clips I've seen, is they're not getting open when they are sent out--seems like the defense is expecting and ready for them. Maybe that's just me. 3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: PFF guy here. It's more negative than positive but an interesting read because he makes points we've all made here, including upgrading the offensive supporting cast. He makes good points...and then completely undermines his credibility by suggesting we pull the plug on Haskins if we're in contention for the playoffs. He clearly has not watching this team, at all if he thinks we have even a remote chance to make the playoffs. Or he's completely insane...either or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, MartinC said: I have no idea what is happening with the backs and the passing game. We heard all summer about what a big part they would play in the passing scheme, and part of why AP was released was because he didn't fit in that intention. On Sunday we had 3 targets to backs for 1 catch for -3 yards. Getting RBs involved in the passing game, getting Haskins some easy completions, getting into 2nd and short more, using screens ti help slow the pass rush ... all this is kind of football 101 and I am really confused as to why its not happening. Couldn’t agree more. What’s the point of bringing in Mkissic? Maybe they’re being overly cautious and conservative to let the players catch up but Jesus this is very clearly an evaluation year so give let the players give the coaches something to evaluate. Literally 96% of the plays are all generated from inside the pocket. We bring in players with versatility and make them one dimensional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: PFF guy here. It's more negative than positive but an interesting read because he makes points we've all made here, including upgrading the offensive supporting cast. I had to google to see who Austin Gayle is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 31 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: you need more time for the RBs to come out of the backfield. Can't all be screens. If you need 3.7 seconds or whatever for the RB to fake pass protection and then get out as a catcher, and the QB is under pressure well before then. Well.... If it's a designed concept to feature the back as a first option - so scheming to get the back the ball those are normally quicker developing plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, MartinC said: If it's a designed concept to feature the back as a first option - so scheming to get the back the ball those are normally quicker developing plays. 1st option, yes. doesn't make their distance from the backfield to the line any shorter than it is for a WR or TE. I think they simply don't have the time for it to develop. Even something that fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I acknowledge that far too many of you have been following this thread in hopes of getting a glimmer of what Bowhunter thinks about this issue. So as my contribution to the collective ES sanity I'll share it now. 1) I approved of drafting Haskins 2) I disapproved of letting Trent sit/walk without an honest and forthright discussion to soothe his fragile ego. Now Haskins is paying the price of that ineptitude 3) Haskins CAN be the guy. He is currently overthinking and not reacting. Get him out of the pocket more often 4) I believe he is showing great progress in seeing the field, but needs more faith that his guys can make the contested catch 5) Missing Harmon hurts with #4, Gan-Gol can help here. Let them play catch after practice and get them up to speed with mutual trust that the ball will be thrown and it will be caught. 6) The loss of AP hurts Haskins progress as well, since AG hasn't shown that he can carry some of the load on DHs back 7) A lot of the negativity is coming out after K.Murray owned JDR. OWNED. Our all world D-line was giving up 5 yards per carry. Don't put all of your negativity about that on the back of DH. He's not ready for that burden quite yet 😎 DH will have some really good games this year in spite of poor O-line play (as will Logan Thomas in those same games.) I'm not quite ready to throw Haskins away. We drafted a pocket QB, play those cards accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 37 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: He makes good points...and then completely undermines his credibility by suggesting we pull the plug on Haskins if we're in contention for the playoffs. He clearly has not watching this team, at all if he thinks we have even a remote chance to make the playoffs. Or he's completely insane...either or... He refers to that if this ends up a bad season for the NFC East. Sort of like 2015 when we won the season at 9-7. They way I took his point is if the defense keeps us in it and no one is running away with the division then you'd bench Haskins perhaps to see if you can make a run otherwise let him play out the season. His points were more or less: A. Accuracy typically isn't easy to improve B. The exceptions to it are typically QBs who are mega talented in other ways C. Haskins isn't the type of QB to carry a team, he needs a big time supporting cast D. If the WFT can take one of the top QBs in the next draft, they should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, @SkinsGoldPants said: 1st option, yes. doesn't make their distance from the backfield to the line any shorter than it is for a WR or TE. I think they simply don't have the time for it to develop. Even something that fast. If you cant protect long enough to run say an angle route - you don't have an offense. Which may be the case ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 40 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Those are not good numbers. Especially bad when you consider a majority of his completions were the CMC at or near the LOS where he did most of the work. That’s what we should be doing with Gibson right now. Not using him as a traditional H-back For someone making his first starts they are perfectly fine numbers. Much better than Haskins. We don't know how good Allen would be with this offense. We do know how good Haskins is. Which is dead last in the league in almost every passing category and QBR. I'd be willing to bet if Haskins has two more games like this, Rivera will make the change and I'll be very excited to see what Allen could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouBrave86 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 And I can tell you right now Haskins will not be the QB of the future for this team. We should’ve never drafted him in the first place especially with the QB talent that was available in this past draft and this one coming up. Our FO was run by a clown show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 minute ago, MartinC said: If you cant protect long enough to run say an angle route - you don't have an offense. Which may be the case ... that is exactly the case of being one of the worst OLs in giving up pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, httr2020dynasty said: We don't know how good Allen would be with this offense. He had 12 starts in the offense last season for the Panthers. You seem to have made up your mind about Haskins in this system after 2 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said: For someone making his first starts they are perfectly fine numbers. Much better than Haskins. We don't know how good Allen would be with this offense. We do know how good Haskins is. Which is dead last in the league in almost every passing category and QBR. I'd be willing to bet if Haskins has two more games like this, Rivera will make the change and I'll be very excited to see what Allen could do. Here’s what’s wild. extrapolate Haskins numbers over 16 games and he’s got better numbers than Allen last year. a 17/16 TD/INT ratio is the reason Allen got benched for former Washington-crush Will Grier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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