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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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2 minutes ago, volsmet said:


The Haskins led Redskins smoked the Allen led panthers a season ago.  


Definitely get the transcendent QB if he is there, but with the understanding that most of his value is in a trade 5 years down the road rather than on the field. 🤔

 

I only mean 73% of that.

 

I agree a young stud QB pays the biggest dividends when they aren't being paid.  But look at a team like Seattle, they are always relevant even though they are paying Wilson.  But the best window is early, I agree with that.

 

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Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

No I hear what you are saying, and I am not trying to devalue the offensive line. I'm simply pointing out that virtually every team that stays in contention for a decade does not go the route of a good OL and an average QB.  Tennessee is by far the exception, by and large the teams playing in January and advancing in January are not quarterbacked by a middle of the road QB with a great OL. We've seen this pattern for decades which is why I'm surprised we are still debating it.  

 

Again GMs know more about building a football team than you and I do. And again they spend enormous draft capital on quarterbacks, that tells me a lot more than anything I have read on a message board.  


Im not sure they know more about building a team. They know more about it from a financial/salary cap/business model than most of us, though. And that’s a big reason why QBs are as valued as they are.

 

Aaron Donald is the best football player in the world. And people know he’s amazing. But when you hear the general public, the consumer, talk football... they talk about quarterbacks. 
 

They make money. 
 

That’s not to say that having an elite guy isn’t the way to win. It is. But he has to be elite. And missing hurts. Especially if you don’t own it and move on.

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3 minutes ago, volsmet said:


The Haskins led Redskins smoked the Allen led panthers a season ago.  

 

 

Yea, Allen played terrible after starting the season 5-1. But what he showed in those first 6 games is more potential than Haskins has shown. Rather see if that's the Allen we get or the Allen that played the Redskins. Because what we're doing now is not working. I don't think Rivera owes Haskins any playing time if Allen proves to be better. 

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1 minute ago, volsmet said:


If the QB can move, you’re paying for more than a QB, so I’d invest more. 

 

Agree with that, too.  I've liked the idea of the mobile QB for quite some times.  But now I am at peak levels of fascination about it.  Those type of QBs are just so hard to defend.  

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1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

No I hear what you are saying, and I am not trying to devalue the offensive line. I'm simply pointing out that virtually every team that stays in contention for a decade does not go the route of a good OL and an average QB.  Tennessee is by far the exception, by and large the teams playing in January and advancing in January are not quarterbacked by a middle of the road QB with a great OL. We've seen this pattern for decades which is why I'm surprised we are still debating it.  

 

Again GMs know more about building a football team than you and I do. And again they spend enormous draft capital on quarterbacks, that tells me a lot more than anything I have read on a message board.  


The saints win with anyone at QB, same with the Pats, the eagles won the Sb with garbage, the jags deserved a Sb birth with Bortles, Denver won it all with a half dead Peyton, Baltimore won with a bum, the giants won two with a bum. 
 

eh

 

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree with that, too.  I've liked the idea of the mobile QB for quite some times.  But now I am at peak levels of fascination about it.  Those type of QBs are just so hard to defend.  


They make WRs impossible to defend and occupy a s or lb on plays that other QBs don’t, they change the game from 10 v 11 to 11 on 11. 

1 minute ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Yea, Allen played terrible after starting the season 5-1. But what he showed in those first 6 games is more potential than Haskins has shown. Rather see if that's the Allen we get or the Allen that played the Redskins. Because what we're doing now is not working. I don't think Rivera owes Haskins any playing time if Allen proves to be better. 


Allen was better before he started getting hit, QBs need more time between starts, getting hit by these huge bipeds requires more physical & mental recovery than we offer. Time to innovate in DC.

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A mobile QB would make this team look better right away. That doesn’t mean that Haskins CAN’T QB. It means we didn’t support him In the way necessary for him to find success. 
 

Agreed with that stuff, vols/SIP

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3 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Im not sure they know more about building a team. They know more about it from a financial/salary cap/business model than most of us, though. And that’s a big reason why QBs are as valued as they are.

 

Aaron Donald is the best football player in the world. And people know he’s amazing. But when you hear the general public, the consumer, talk football... they talk about quarterbacks. 
 

They make money. 
 

That’s not to say that having an elite guy isn’t the way to win. It is. But he has to be elite. And missing hurts. Especially if you don’t own it and move on.


In my family I have two people who have run nfl salary caps, they’re each suspect between the ears. 

I joke, of course, because I can’t get political here. 🤗

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3 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Yea, Allen played terrible after starting the season 5-1. But what he showed in those first 6 games is more potential than Haskins has shown. Rather see if that's the Allen we get or the Allen that played the Redskins. Because what we're doing now is not working. I don't think Rivera owes Haskins any playing time if Allen proves to be better. 


Pitching 3 yard swing passes to a transcendent RB/YAC talent + Greg Olson moving the chains with contested catches will make any QB look better than he is.  
 

Give Haskins those weapons and his numbers would be vastly improved.  But the jury would still be out on his future as a “franchise quarterback”.

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:

A mobile QB would make this team look better right away. That doesn’t mean that Haskins CAN’T QB. It means we didn’t support him In the way necessary for him to find success. 
 

Agreed with that stuff, vols/SIP


Indeed. Since the draft I’ve stressed what we’d need to do to give this prospect a chance; we have failed him miserably. 

Just now, TryTheBeal! said:


Pitching 3 yard swing passes to a transcendent RB/YAC talent + Greg Olson moving the chains with contested catches will make any QB look better than he is.  
 

Give Haskins those weapons and his numbers would be vastly improved.  But the jury would still be out on his future as a “franchise quarterback”.


Talking Olson makes me laugh about our training camp reports — Thomas and Apke, awful. 

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3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:


Pitching 3 yard swing passes to a transcendent RB/YAC talent + Greg Olson moving the chains with contested catches will make any QB look better than he is.  
 

Give Haskins those weapons and his numbers would be vastly improved.  But the jury would still be out on his future as a “franchise quarterback”.

 

I mean whatever the excuses are we have no clue what Allen would look like with this WFT team. We know what they look like with Haskins. I for one rather see if we could compete for the NFC East this year than watch whatever it is our offense is doing on the field. It makes us noncompetitive unless we get 5 possessions started in opponent territory. 

Edited by httr2020dynasty
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Let me know when they aren't in the Top 5, 10, or 15 giving up pressures.

 

He needs to play better. So does this group, and the RBs who aren't benefiting from any average run blocking either. 

Edited by @SkinsGoldPants
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Just now, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

 

Let me know when they aren't in the Top 5, 10, or 15 giving up pressures.

 

He needs to play better. So does those group, and the RBs who aren't benefiting from any average run blocking either. 

 

 

Insane giving up the 3rd highest pressure percentage when your QB gets rid of the ball at the fastest rate in the league.

 

 

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1 hour ago, volsmet said:


Indeed. Since the draft I’ve stressed what we’d need to do to give this prospect a chance; we have failed him miserably. 

 

Agree but there is some nuance to your point.  You weren't high on him in the draft.  LOL, I recall on draft day both you and me rooting for him to be picked before our pick.  Your feeling seems to be (correct me if I am wrong) that you weren't confident that he would conquer his weaknesses in the NFL.   But for him to have a fighting chance to do it, he'd need the right situation with a good supporting cast and that hasn't happened for him.

 

I agree with all of that.  It's not personal with me with any player.  When I watch WFT games often with my kids by my side, I am rooting for every dude. I want to win, I want everyone to play great.  I am no GM or vying for some GM job to say the least so I don't give a rats behind what i thought of said player before the draft while I am watching a game.   I don't have any motivation for anyone to fail.  That's ridiculous.  And i think pretty much everyone here is the same way. 

 

I defended RG3 left and right in 2013 and 2014, I thought Shanny and then Jay were the problem 100%.  I was wrong.  But I was very emotional making my points.  I was a big Doctson guy.  I defended him.  Mocked Cooley when he said he heard that he doesn't love football.  I was very territorial about protecting my dude so to speak.  I was wrong.

 

So these days I try to be more clinical about players.  And just let things unfurl and try to take my previous predispositons out of the equation unless what i see confirms those predispostions.  Heck I trashed Daniel Jones before that draft, now I am somewhat a defender of the dude relatively speaking on this thread.  He wasn't great but he played better than I expected. 

 

It's not that i have everything now in perfect emotion equilibrium. 😀  But I try to be more clinical than I've been in the past.  And I respect really anyone's opinion here is about football (with rare exception) versus being about some odd motive that has nothing to do with this team winning. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:
He needs to play better. So does those group, and the RBs who aren't benefiting from any average run blocking either. 

 

This is the truth and most people are actually saying some version of it. 

 

But we wouldnt be EXTREME WASHINTONGS unless we were arguing about something. And since this is the DWYANE HASKINS thread we might as well (lol im having fun now) 

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Just now, KDawg said:

This is something I can get with you on, HTTR. The line is bad and needs improvement before we can say we have Haskins a fair chance.

This is one of the reasons I say give him next year too:

1. Unlikely we'll be in the top-2 again--we have too many winnable games (Bengals, Browns, Giants 2x, Panthers, possibly Eagles last week of the season)

2. Panthers and Jets have a much harder schedule, and the Jets have the We-Hate-Gase-and-Quit factor. Willingness to move on from Darnold is also a factor.

3. If we draft Fields/Lawrence (again, unlikely), they're still going to be running for their lives.

4. I'd draft Sewell and know whoever is playing QB is going to be protected.

5. Haskins isn't exactly keeping this team out of the playoffs--this year or next.

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2 games in. Don't want to question Turner's formations and play calling. BUT (always a but), they need to use those 53 1/3 yards of field width better before the snap. Get defenders out of the box as much as possible for both running and passing. That should help the OL a little with fewer guys to stop immediately after the snap.

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3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This is something I can get with you on, HTTR. The line is bad and needs improvement before we can say we have Haskins a fair chance.

 

It does.  There are way too many examples of otherwise good QBs failing when their OLs are terrible.

 

As I've said plenty of times before, Haskins needs to improve his accuracy and touch in order to be a franchise QB.  But I truly believe it can be done, as we've seen plenty of young QBs do it before.  The OL just has to allow him to survive long enough for that to happen.

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Just now, Riggo#44 said:

This is one of the reasons I say give him next year too:

1. Unlikely we'll be in the top-2 again--we have too many winnable games (Bengals, Browns, Giants 2x, Panthers, possibly Eagles last week of the season)

2. Panthers and Jets have a much harder schedule, and the Jets have the We-Hate-Gase-and-Quit factor. Willingness to move on from Darnold is also a factor.

3. If we draft Fields/Lawrence (again, unlikely), they're still going to be running for their lives.

4. I'd draft Sewell and know whoever is playing QB is going to be protected.

5. Haskins isn't exactly keeping this team out of the playoffs--this year or next.

 

to me its all about your first point.  Do we have that top pick.  If Haskins struggles and we love Lawerence or Fields and we can take one of them, do it.  If not go elsewhere, I'd love it to be Sewell or J. Chase but Sewell is my man crush -- granted who wouldn't have a crush on Sewell, what a player.   I think Chase would give you a 2nd McLaurin.  But if they went WR, use your 2nd and two thirds on the O line and FA, too.

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57 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I’d pay two guys nobody wanted, let them relax behind the best OL in the game, get them two great TEs & a #1 wr, get them any of the explosive 3rd down backs, and we’d score all day long on just about anyone.

Interesting concept, if one could actually pull this off it would be cap heaven.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

3. If we draft Fields/Lawrence (again, unlikely), they're still going to be running for their lives.

 

My point is even if so, so what.  It's miles harder to find a franchise QB than it is to build an O line. We haven't really devoted enough resources to the O line both as to the draft and FA.  We can fix that quicker than not having a QB.  During Dan's reign, we've had periods with a good O line yet bad QB play.  So as much as i want an O line, i still think a really good O line with a mediocre QB rarely brings wins.  Guys like Bortles are the exception to the rule versus being the rule. 

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Do we have that top pick.  If Haskins struggles and we love Lawerence or Fields and we can take one of them, do it.

 

If we are in position to take one of the top QB's, and those QB's look really good, you absolutely take one of them. Don't forget Rivera inherited Dwayne. If he doesn't show improvement, and remains at the bottom of the NFL all year in QBR again, then it's a no brainer for Rivera to pick his guy and build around him going forward.

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2 hours ago, volsmet said:


I haven’t watched Lance either, I just didn’t think that particular play showed anything particularly positive. Mobility is a huge asset, I’d love a QB who could move a bit, and DH has improved a lot in that area himself. 

 


It’s embarrassing how little we have given him in 2 years. 

He's started what? 7 games? Old HC gave him nothing until the end of the season. He has crap around him. People are ready to move on from a season old first round QB, in favor of Allen or another draft choice? It's a joke.

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