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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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57 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

In order to put the ball in a place a defender cant get to it, you have to know where the defenders are and where they can go, otherwise a zone defender takes your lunch money. Pressure destroys his accuracy, but not his ability to see what the D is doing. Otherwise we’d see him huck balls into triple coverage due to panic. We have not seen that at all this season and he has been under his fair share of duress.  

 

 

 

He has not even thrown into double coverage much this season. He usually tries to find a guy in single.

 


It’s not about throwing into double coverage. 

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7 hours ago, volsmet said:

On target % is a concern, one that requires a million reps. Unfortunately, his mechanical issues limit his immediate upside; Id prefer to roll him out and let him unleash more frequently. I don’t think he’s going to be the most accurate on short stuff, but I think he can be an elite deep ball guy if we design plays that get us one on ones out of the pocket. Screens & roll outs, let him sling it. 

 

 

 

I get the roll him in the pocket idea and the deep ball thought, too.    The weird thing about him is for a dude with a good arm he didn't really throw a great deep ball in college and watching him in camp he wasn't good at it there either.  His deep ball is somewhat flat and under thrown.   He can throw high with the intermediate throws but often short with the deep ball. Though I agree I'd throw some even if its just to keep defenses honest. 

 

From what I saw in camp his wheel house is in between the numbers 5-15 yards albeit not so much this season.

 

You were the one who helped turned me off to Haskins before the draft.  And it worked.  Yet, I am on board with give the dude time.  What I like the most about him is his competitive streak.  He's a gamer.  That's why to me this Cleveland game is huge.  For a competitive dude, I'd think he'd come into that game angry.  And the Browns defense isn't that hot. It's the perfect storm.  If he bounces back next week, I'd feel a lot better.  If he struggles, for me at least it will set off alarm bells.

 

This part isn't directed to you, just sharing my take.  I am not in the camp of how he can't be judged right now because of his suporting cast.  My main reason for that is I saw the dude throw a lot in camp with zero pressure on him and he wasn't accurate to say the least.  He was wild.  Very inconsistent.  Mostly bad.   When you watch Haskins, and even scrubs like Keenum and Colt throw balls around the field back to back to back.  Haskins had the most zip.  But he was by a mile the most inaccurate especially with the real easy throws.    He had one practice where he was on fire.  And the others he was at best meh but mostly bad. 

 

So its tough for me to get that out of my head and blame the receivers or pressure on a play when there was none when he misses an open receiver. To me that's Haskins looking like training camp Haskins.  And ditto beat guys saying he didn't really have a hot camp this year either.  It paints a picture that the dude is a project.   Camp from what I observed is really interesting to judge a QB's accuracy because they are often allowed to throw with no pressure and you can watch them make a ton of throws back to back and see what they are good at and what they aren't good at. 

 

I know some here were annoyed when beat guys leaked that Kyle Smith and some scouts on the team didn't rate Haskins as a first rounder.   But IMO their take wasn't that crazy.  Haskins has talent IMO but he has a lot to work on.  Arians in his book about QBs said a key thing for him to evaluate QBs is consistency.  He likened it to a golf swing.  Some have moments but few are really consistent.  He said QBs -- same thing.  QBs with consistent footwork -- arm movement tend to excel.  Those that don't end up inconsistent and ultimately backups in the league. 

 

I am not out on Haskins.  Like I said I do like his competitive streak.  We can see him bounce back.  But if the season stays mostly like this and we can draft a potentially really good QB in this draft, no way I am giving up on that opportunity and trying to build instead around Haskins.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/gameday/haskins-going-deep

Haskins was ranked 30th by PFF with a 25.9 percent deep completion rate, a 7.2 yards per attempt rate and a 41.4 passer rating. 

 

https://www.bluechipscouting.com/articles/2019/1/9/breaking-down-haskins-a-critical-look-into-the-traits-of-this-years-qb1

If there’s one general area he struggles, it is on bucket throws outside the numbers. In the first six games of film review, he hadn’t adequately placed a single traditional deep ball effectively. There seems to be a lack of confidence in his own abilities to do so, because he often threw downfield balls too flat, not allowing his pass-catchers to run under passes despite running wide open.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We have a ton of cap space for next season. We need to blow that wad on the front 6, as well as a heavy draft investment. We need to attack the Oline, get another WR and 2 TEs.

 

Agree.  Hopefully we don't need a QB.  But if Haskins struggles and we can land Fields or Lawrence, IMO you do it.  Then use the 2nd rounder and two thirds on the O line maybe TE.  Cap room ditto -- add MLB, WR, CB.  

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5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  Hopefully we don't need a QB.  But if Haskins struggles and we can land Fields or Lawrence, IMO you do it.  Then use the 2nd rounder and two thirds on the O line maybe TE.  Cap room ditto -- add MLB, WR, CB.  

I don't think CB is a need personally. We've done well with late rounders too.

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5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't think CB is a need personally. We've done well with late rounders too.


I think it’s a need... but it falls below:

 

OL/Potentially QB

FS/LB

TE/Slot Receiver/#2 receiver

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7 hours ago, volsmet said:

Would the giants take Lawrence

 

 

 

In their shoes, I would.  My gut is that Daniel Jones ends up just OK.  I don't think he's a bust.   But ends up sort of a 15th-20th in the league type of QB if you build around him.   Sadly, my impression isn't that different with Haskins.  If Lawrence or Fields look like top 10 QBs, IMO you do it. 

9 hours ago, volsmet said:


On the 2nd throw a Lance stares right for an hour v bums with a great Oline protecting him. 

 

As I said I haven't watched Lance.  I don't really have an opinion on him yet.  But I favor electric mobile QB types and Lance fits that profile.  Can he throw?  Don't know, I got to watch.

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7 hours ago, volsmet said:

Would the giants take Lawrence

 

Let’s hope not, but they would be stupid not too. Unless they really believe in Jones or he trends upwards this year you couldn’t go wrong with Sewell either. Who knows with Gettleman 

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12 hours ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Other than us drafting him I just don't see what he has done to earn the starting snaps over Allen. If Allen looks better and gives you a better chance to win, then let him play. He's only 24. I'd keep playing Haskins over an older dude like Smith though. But I'm interested in seeing if Allen could complete some passes downfield and give us a shot at winning the worst division in football. 

 

The only reason to pull the trigger on switching to Allen is because you are in danger of losing the locker room.  Other than that, I am 100% on board with Rivera playing Haskins all 16 games to fully evaluate whether or not he wants to continue to develop him, or draft his own quarterback.  

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22 minutes ago, max21 said:

Let’s hope not, but they would be stupid not too. Unless they really believe in Jones or he trends upwards this year you couldn’t go wrong with Sewell either. Who knows with Gettleman 


They won’t need Sewell, as good as he is. They have Andrew Thomas who is not quite Sewell, but a fantastic prospect. The upgrade there is marginal in terms of position/need/upgradeability.
 

And neither are really right side guys, though I suppose it’s an experiment they can try with Thomas this year. 
 

If I were them I’d be intrigued with that experiment... and I’d consider it as well as the trade scenario listed below. If they draft Sewell and Thomas can’t play on the right... someone will trade something for Thomas. For sure.
 

The thing with this league is there are usually GMs willing to do something unorthodox. So if I’m the Giants and I wind up with the top pick, I’m:

 

1) shopping it to see what I can get. If I get a good offer from someone in the top 3-5, I’m considering it.

 

2) Absent that offer, I’m taking the top QB on the board and putting Jones on the trade block. Someone will give up something for him. If they don’t, you know you made the correct move for your franchise anyways and you have a starter and backup on rookie contracts. 
 

3) If they are totally sold on Jones and don’t want the QB, you shop the pick and then wherever you wind up you take the absolute best player on your board.

Edited by KDawg
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Haskins will settle in. He has the tools. He's getting very little help though. Hopefully Turner can get the run game going a lot more and teams can't T-off on us like the Cardinals did. Then maybe the other stuff can work for Haskins.  

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13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Haskins will settle in. He has the tools. He's getting very little help though. Hopefully Turner can get the run game going a lot more and teams can't T-off on us like the Cardinals did. Then maybe the other stuff can work for Haskins.  

 

To me if I boiled it down:

 

A.  Strengths: fastball, quick release, smart, competiveness

B.  Weaknesses:  accuracy, footwork, touch, throwing with anticipation -- maybe pocket awareness

 

To me Haskins is a wildcard.  I'd let it play out this season.  I am up and down on him.  Before the season, I said I'd put my chips slightly in his favor.  Now, I'd say, I'd slightly bet against him.  But I'll probably change my mind next week. 😀

 

For me this game coming up is big.  Burrow lit up the Browns with a weak supporting cast.  We match up IMO well against the Browns.  i like Haskins' competitiveness so this is the perfect storm for a swing back game.  I figure he will play mad and in a good way.  If he does just that my optimism will lean slightly positive again.  If he struggles in that one, he drops another peg down for me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

The only reason to pull the trigger on switching to Allen is because you are in danger of losing the locker room.  Other than that, I am 100% on board with Rivera playing Haskins all 16 games to fully evaluate whether or not he wants to continue to develop him, or draft his own quarterback.  

I don't think the locker room is sour on Haskins though. This isn't some veteran laden team that is relying on a young QB to lead them, they're all pretty young and mostly figuring things out.

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12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think the locker room is sour on Haskins though. This isn't some veteran laden team that is relying on a young QB to lead them, they're all pretty young and mostly figuring things out.

 

Agree.  But it might be more interesting on that front if Alex Smith looks ready.  

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14 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Not really.  Brady actually completed over 60% of his passes right from the get go and that was back before the rules changes.

 

Accuracy and touch are just things you either have or you don't. Very rarely do QBs go from inaccurate to accurate.

I tend to disagree with this.. my example? Drew Brees. His first 3 years in the league he broke 60% once (and that was 60.8%)

 

1st year: 55.6%

2nd year: 60.8%

3rd year: 57.6%

 

and then finally in his 4th year his percentage was 65.5 so stating that accuracy and touch are things you have or don't is not entirely true. That comes down to your footwork and mechanics.

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9 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

I tend to disagree with this.. my example? Drew Brees. His first 3 years in the league he broke 60% once (and that was 60.8%)

 

1st year: 55.6%

2nd year: 60.8%

3rd year: 57.6%

 

and then finally in his 4th year his percentage was 65.5 so stating that accuracy and touch are things you have or don't is not entirely true. That comes down to your footwork and mechanics.

There are always exceptions to the rule, you are right. Is that what we are waiting for with Dwayne, to see if he can, maybe hopefully be an exception?

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7 minutes ago, dyst said:

There are always exceptions to the rule, you are right. Is that what we are waiting for with Dwayne, to see if he can, maybe hopefully be an exception?

More than likely he won't be.. but we won't know that due to our terribad line and no weapons outside scary terry in my opinion. Add in a new system, new coaches, and basically no offseason/TC and you have our offense. It's a literal catch 22 at this point and time.

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2 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

More than likely he won't be.. but we won't know that due to our terribad line and no weapons outside scary terry in my opinion. It's a literal catch 22 at this point and time.


Not entirely true. A good quarterback will hit the opportunities that they get even in the face of adversity. So far we haven’t taken advantage. But, he is still learning. So... that could change. 

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1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think the locker room is sour on Haskins though. This isn't some veteran laden team that is relying on a young QB to lead them, they're all pretty young and mostly figuring things out.

 

I didn't say that they were.  However, based off of Cooley's recent comments about Haskins not having any touch or giving his receivers catchable passes, that could change in the coming weeks.

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Incredible that Ryan Tannehill wasn’t a finished product after his first season starting, with a 58% completion rate, a 76.1 passer rating and a 12 to 13 TD to INT ratio. 
 

Haskins is younger right now than Tannehill was his rookie season. 


Our fans deserve just as much pain as Dolphins fans if we run Haskins out of town.  Maybe we should be focusing on getting our QB some weapons and a capable OL, like the Titans did. 
 

 

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43 minutes ago, dyst said:

There are always exceptions to the rule, you are right. Is that what we are waiting for with Dwayne, to see if he can, maybe hopefully be an exception?

 

Yeah, pretty much. And why not? We suck in so many areas--a seasoned QB gets us to what, 8-8? And we miss out on a Sewell. It's like those idiot Giants fans thumping their chests over that December win that all but guaranteed Chase Young.

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