FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Riggo#44]

As for Jacksonville's terrible supporting cast, compare this to ours:

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm sure some people wouldn't be happy if he came in and started playing like Mahomes on Day 1.  Some people are just never happy no matter what.

 

I've said before, I'm not a believer in Haskins but he needs time.  No one said he'd be amazing from Day 1.  It's unfair to expect that he would be.  

 

In regards to accuracy, IMO that's the only thing that should really matter when looking for a quarterback.  If I'm ever picking a QB, I'm taking the most accurate guy in the draft.  Everything else is secondary.

[Rskins91]

54 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

You want to wait until Dwayne is 37? LOL. Terrible, terrible example. It’s easier than ever for a rookie or 2nd year QB to come in and be successful. Dwayne has shown none of that. The most important thing he has done for this team was something nobody saw, the Locker room speech. 

 

33 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

These are useless comparisons.  For every one of these, there's literally half a dozen highly drafted QBs that were bad to middling early and stayed that way.  Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Josh Rosen, etc, etc. The list is long.

 

Now, I'm not making a judgement one way or the other on Haskins, just that cherry picking other QB successes doesnt really make his case.

 

At any rate, if we're riding with Haskins and giving him a fair shake, he should get this year AND next, based on the talent deficit around him.  I dont know if folks have the patience for that.

 

Alright, let me slow down my argument for you guys since, apparently, you're twisting my words around to fit whatever you think I'm trying to say.

 

No, I don't want to wait until Dwayne is 37. Rich Gannon is an example of how it takes QBs time to learn and flourish. It's not an argument for the team to wait that long - it's an argument that QBs learn and grow at different speeds, and that more time is needed to make a judgment. The fact that you honed in on that example and used it as a strawman for my original argument shows you either aren't arguing in good faith or just don't understand what I'm trying to say.

 

As for the second quoted material - Yes, there are plenty of middling QBs that also could be what Dwayne turns into. I'm not "making a case for Haskins" to be one of the guys I listed. I'm simply saying what you said at the bottom of your post: that if we're riding with him, we need to give him time and talent to see what he makes of himself. We can make a more appropriate judgment at midseason (when he hits 16-17 games played) and at the end of the 2020 season. If we're 2-14 and Haskins started a full 16, it means we're seriously considering moving on, especially considering Trevor Lawrence is coming out this year. If we're 5-11 and he improved as the season went on, that's about what I expect from this team and I think it's not as cut or dry. I'd use free agency aggressively and the draft to give him weapons and protection and remove all excuses. If we're 7-9, or 8-8 competing every game and Dwayne is really showing strides, then I'm much more bullish on him.

 

This isn't that hard. All I'm saying is let's not have knee jerk reactions where many are calling him a bust and loser after 11 games played in the NFL. It's a good thing you aren't running a front office, because you'd run out anyone who isn't looking like a Pro-Bowler instantly and lose out on many players in history that took time to learn and grow.

[Destino]

Poor quality “supporting casts” don’t make great players look like bums.  Those teams will lose despite having a good player, but talent always shows.  We’ve all seen very good players on bad teams.  Does anyone really think Haskins looks like a good QB on a bad team?  
 

Haskins needs to improve and the season is still young.  Kirk Cousins had a few seasons where he played like hot garbage early and then turned things around.  Maybe we’ll see something like that.  Maybe he can figure out the cause of his first half struggles and just start faster.  Who knows?  Bottom line however is that he’s played poorly.  We’re all rooting for the guy to turn it around.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Destino said:

Poor quality “supporting casts” don’t make great players look like bums.  Those teams will lose despite having a good player, but talent always shows.  We’ve all seen very good players on bad teams.  Does anyone really think Haskins looks like a good QB on a bad team?  
 

Haskins needs to improve and the season is still young.  Kirk Cousins had a few seasons where he played like hot garbage early and then turned things around.  Maybe we’ll see something like that.  Maybe he can figure out the cause of his first half struggles and just start faster.  Who knows?  Bottom line however is that he’s played poorly.  We’re all rooting for the guy to turn it around.  

 

Well, some people here certainly know.  Just ask them.

 

It's hilarious that people would want to sit Haskins for...Kyle Allen.  Or an old Alex Smith who's got 25% of a knee left.  People are ****ing about Haskins incessantly and...what's the alternative?

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I think a lot of fans still think that bad QB play is exclusively throwing a ton of picks and fumbles. So if a guy doesn’t turn the ball over, he’s not necessarily playing poorly. This is not how coaches or decision makers look at this stuff. 

 

 

[Rskins91]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Well, some people here certainly know.  Just ask them.

 

It's hilarious that people would want to sit Haskins for...Kyle Allen.  Or an old Alex Smith who's got 25% of a knee left.  People are ****ing about Haskins incessantly and...what's the alternative?

They're also acting like this isn't a learning/rebuilding year altogether. Anyone who is OBJECTIVE with this team should know we need to know what we have in Haskins, and the best way to know that is through a large sample size of data. We'll be much more informed and can make smarted decisions when we see what he puts on tape after a year of starting.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Well, some people here certainly know.  Just ask them.

 

It's hilarious that people would want to sit Haskins for...Kyle Allen.  Or an old Alex Smith who's got 25% of a knee left.  People are ****ing about Haskins incessantly and...what's the alternative?

Has there been a post advocating benching him in this thread?? 
 

Does mentioning he stinks now equal benching him? 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Has there been a post advocating benching him in this thread?? 
 

Does mentioning he stinks now equal benching him? 

 

I believe @Koolblue13said that in the game thread people were wanting him benched.

 

But even if he does suck, the alternatives aren't demonstrably better, which is the point.  I'm not sure why anyone would object to giving Haskins 16 games this year.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

I don't think the ball was getting out nearly as fast this week as opposed to last. Maybe they had more organizational confidence in their O-line this week.

 

Regardless, you need more than that. He has to get better. I felt like I saw improvement from him every game last year, and that is all I ever ask from a young QB. I wont draw trends from a single outing, but I did not see improvement in this 2nd game.

 

Haskins has two massive cushions right now

1- He is not self destructing w/ turnovers

2 - several other teams are so bad it will be difficult for us to be in position to draft his replacement, meaning he is more "entrenched"

 

The Oline will not suddenly improve so between Haskins and Turner, somebody needs to find something that works. This is the second week where Gibson has been purely a RB instead of an exotic chess piece. Not only has the O been unproductive, this is not the kind of inspiring play designs we were expecting to see when we constructed the roster in this manner.

[Riggo#44]

9 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Has there been a post advocating benching him in this thread?? 
 

Does mentioning he stinks now equal benching him? 

People have been calling for Allen or Smith, here, twitter. Anyone calling for those two has completely missed the point of this season, and ignored anything the coaches and organization have said.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I agree they simply have to let Haskins play this year to find out what we have.  I don't think it's unreasonable that posters note the small sample size and lack of support, at the same time it's not unreasonable at all to doubt a QB many doubted on draft day.  His inaccuracy is not new, just as Jones fumbled in college Dwayne was not that accurate at OSU. He had a ton of short crossing patterns that turned into big gains, he was not making hard throws that often in college.  

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

People have been calling for Allen or Smith, here, twitter. Anyone calling for those two has completely missed the point of this season, and ignored anything the coaches and organization have said.

I did a twitter search for Kyle Allen and the only thing I saw was that JP Finlay sent out a tweet with a screenshot with some random idiot advocating it. Other than that, all i saw was ppl saying “wow people are calling for Kyle Allen?!”

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I agree they simply have to let Haskins play this year to find out what we have.  I don't think it's unreasonable that posters note the small sample size and lack of support, at the same time it's not unreasonable at all to doubt a QB many doubted on draft day.  His inaccuracy is not new, just as Jones fumbled in college Dwayne was not that accurate at OSU. He had a ton of short crossing patterns that turned into big gains, he was not making hard throws that often in college.  

 

It blew my mind that the first time they attempted a short slant to McLaurin was in the 3rd or 4th quarter yesterday.

 

If he can hit short crossing patterns, great.  They should be giving him more of those patterns in the games.

[Llevron]

59 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Uh...when you play roughly 3-4 quarters of football in the preseason, and comparing that to playing 8 full quarters of a regular season is not "taking a shot for no reason".  

 

I think the preseason thing is mostly about the off-season practices and training camp more than it is the actual pre-season games honestly. At this point im not sure any of that matters anyway, but I think thats the big excuse he gets right now. New offense with no time to really install it. 

 

If it makes any of yall feel better, he said after the game that they were expecting lots of cover 3 and cover 4 and then he got man all game so it threw everything he prepared for out of the window. Im not sure thats a good excuse either but with a young guy with very little experience and again in a new offense I could see that causing him trouble. Especially when hes inaccurate to begin with. 

 

Edit: **** my brain is off today 

[Riggo#44]

14 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I did a twitter search for Kyle Allen and the only thing I saw was that JP Finlay sent out a tweet with a screenshot with some random idiot advocating it. Other than that, all i saw was ppl saying “wow people are calling for Kyle Allen?!”

 

[Llevron]

I would just ignore the people saying to sit him after game 2 when we are 1-1. Its pointless at this point. They will be here all season its a marathon not a sprint lol 

[wit33]

Can any of the “blue chip” football guys share the difference of scheme between Callahan/Occonell and this year with Turner/Rivera?

 

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Fair. That’s still a really small minority but I’ll concede 

 

 

Those folks should be ignored. 

[CobraCommander]

Twitter is the worst. Just more proof.

[DJHJR86]

If there was an actual preseason this year, you would have many more people calling for Kyle Allen, IMO.

[Fresh8686]

 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

Poor quality “supporting casts” don’t make great players look like bums.  Those teams will lose despite having a good player, but talent always shows.  We’ve all seen very good players on bad teams.  Does anyone really think Haskins looks like a good QB on a bad team?  
 

Haskins needs to improve and the season is still young.  Kirk Cousins had a few seasons where he played like hot garbage early and then turned things around.  Maybe we’ll see something like that.  Maybe he can figure out the cause of his first half struggles and just start faster.  Who knows?  Bottom line however is that he’s played poorly.  We’re all rooting for the guy to turn it around.  

This is an excellent post.

 

Having said that, did Cousins really ever turn it around? Cousins is an adequate NFL QB... which I guess is turning it around from where he started. But ultimately it’s not what any team is after. Except the Vikings... who extended him...

 

Most of the time you know what you have in a guy right away. Even if they aren’t winning or playing great... you can tell. There are exceptions, of course.

 

all of that is to say that I agree with your premise. Bad supporting casts don’t make great QBs look horrendous.

1 minute ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

This is telling. Dwayne is best when he is catching and throwing. Which, coincidentally, coincides with a ****ty OL quite well.

 

When he has time to think and has to diagnose defensive coverage rolls, he struggles.

 

So... let’s do that for four quarters.

[CommanderInTheRye]

This is getting silly.

 

I can’t believe that it’s necessary to voice this but—

 

We MUST continue to start and play Dwyane Haskins. This is only game two. There was no preseason. This was just his 9th(?) start.There is no viable long term savior on the bench. We need to find out who Simba is and what he can become. The only way to do that is for him to play.

 

Now on the other hand the sobering question for me is whether or not we can even adequately evaluate our young signal caller given the overall lack of talent around him? 

 

Haskins has an inconsistent running game, perhaps the worst o-line in football, and other than the constantly harassed McLaurin no receiver that would start on a good team. Other than that it’s all sunshine and rainbows.

[Tress Is The Way]

47 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I agree they simply have to let Haskins play this year to find out what we have.  I don't think it's unreasonable that posters note the small sample size and lack of support, at the same time it's not unreasonable at all to doubt a QB many doubted on draft day.  His inaccuracy is not new, just as Jones fumbled in college Dwayne was not that accurate at OSU. He had a ton of short crossing patterns that turned into big gains, he was not making hard throws that often in college.  

In my humble opinion on Haskins' accuracy is that it can be fixed with proper foot work (aka mechanics) which comes with repetition. He really reminds me of Sam Bradford in a way with the accuracy. Bradford was phenomenal at under 20 years but over it was a drop off. Bradfords mechanics were par if not worse than Haskins' coming out of college.

 

The huge thing that he does have going for him is that he goes through his progressions better than most of the QBs in that particular draft class.  If I remember correctly he even beat Murray out in PFF passing grade on their second reads.

 

Give the kid time, hell give him the whole season. He has the arm strength to make any throw on the field, once his feet move with his arm strength I think the kid COULD have it. Wait'n'See approach is my grade.

 

Here's a good breakdown between Murray and Haskins coming out of college: