FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[wit33]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

If you’re referring to pass rush win rate, you’re misunderstanding. It measures how often a defender beats his blocker in 2.5 seconds or less, so you would have a high rate even if you didn’t record a sack or if it took you longer to actually get the sack.  
 

It’s a completely objective measurement that is based on tracking data, using chips in the players’ helmets. 
 

We were well below average in this stat last year as well, and most of us attributed it to playing in a 2-gap system versus 1-gapping. Well, we’re 1-gapping now. If we continue to grade out as below-average in this stat, it’s going to catch up to us and we’ll struggle against QBs who don’t take forever to get the ball out. 

Do they have data points from say 1.0 to 3.5 seconds or only 2.5?

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

Interesting article on Haskins' maturation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/09/18/dwayne-haskins-washington-football-quarterback/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wp_redskins

 

Good article.

 

For those that don't get the Post here's a nugget focusing on Haskins' new found maturity and leadership worth sharing...

 

[quote]

 

...Rivera has reached out to Meyer twice since taking the job in Washington — something the previous regime in Washington never did, Meyer said, even though Meyer believes “there were some things that they needed to know” about the young quarterback...

 

His knowledge of the game is 10 out of 10. He really understands the game of football. The only minuses were his leadership, a little bit of toughness, and maybe his weight training was very average at best.”

 

While Haskins had the traits to be a great pro, he didn’t have the experience or the natural leadership ability...

 

Meyer urged his quarterback to watch a clip of Kobe Bryant practicing with some of his former Los Angeles Lakers teammates. Meyer believed that Bryant’s approach might rub off on Haskins and that instead of sulking after a bad play, he would make a point to engage with and encourage his teammates. Or that in practice, he would be more of a vocal leader and push his teammates to be better...

 

 

“I saw really instantaneous change on the practice field,” Meyer said.

 

Haskins later met Bryant while training at the Mamba Sports Academy in California ahead of the NFL combine. His house now features wall-length murals of Bryant, Muhammad Ali and Tom Brady.

 

When asked if he believes Haskins has changed his ways for good, Meyer said he talked to Haskins recently and came away convinced.

 

“He’s a grown a-- man,” Meyer said. “I talked to him for a while, and I’ve seen videos of training; his body’s changed, and he even told me, he says, ‘I’m done playing around.’ ”

 

But the biggest challenge in a “what have you done for me lately” league, as Rivera likes to put it, is proving he’s here to stay.

 

“Success for me is helping this team win more games than last year,” Haskins said. “Success for me is helping this team have a better overall demeanor on the field. Success for me is finding ways to lead and be a presence. That’s something that I’m just looking forward to doing and being quite successful at it because I know that I can do it and my guys can do it.

 

“I’m looking forward to leading these men.”

 

[/quote]

 

 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

That last quote gives me great hope for Haskins. Nowhere does he set personal goals. They're all team-related and helping the team win

[volsmet]

Protection and reps. The mechanical issues are uniquely grotesque (though not necessarily confining), the talent is undeniable, the toughness is there, the leadership is coming. 

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Protection and reps. The mechanical issues are uniquely grotesque (though not necessarily confining), the talent is undeniable, the toughness is there, the leadership is coming. 

 

You got it. If we keep him upright and supported he will push himself until he gets as far as his possibly can. Thats all you ask really of any player. 

[KDawg]

He actually reminded me of a stronger armed Alex Smith this week. Not awe inspiring. Didn’t make ridiculous throws into tight windows... got rid of the ball fairly quickly... didn’t turn the ball over.

 

As a progression step for him I really like that mindset/blueprint. Hopefully he elevates beyond that, but if he turns out to be close to Alex Smith there’s much worse ways to be.

 

You can tell he’s listening to 11.

 

I really like Smith. His contract? Not so much. But Smith? I like him a lot. And I don’t think we’re 3-13 with Smith last year. Though in hindsight, He Who Shalt Not Be Named is gone because of that... so... silver linings and all.

 

 

 

 

[wit33]

13 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Protection and reps. The mechanical issues are uniquely grotesque (though not necessarily confining), the talent is undeniable, the toughness is there, the leadership is coming. 

Strange that these are struggle areas, due to him being groomed to be a QB and QB only at a young age. Wonder where his training, coaches, or his work ethic failed him, in this regard. One can gather a multi sport athlete struggling with mechanics or a late bloomer, but a dude who’s been hyper focused from an early age you’d think would be pretty “clean” mechanically. 
 

Thoughts?

[HTTRDynasty]

43 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Do they have data points from say 1.0 to 3.5 seconds or only 2.5?

 

No, that's not a stat they track.

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Strange that these are struggle areas, due to him being groomed to be a QB and QB only at a young age. Wonder where his training, coaches, or his work ethic failed him, in this regard. One can gather a multi sport athlete struggling with mechanics or a late bloomer, but a dude who’s been hyper focused from an early age you’d think would be pretty “clean” mechanically. 
 

Thoughts?

Other sports help you develop your skills as a quarterback. Pitching coaches are sometimes brought in to refine mechanics. Arizona and Seattle were pretty happy that their QBs has that pitcher mentality already. 
 

It can bring you back to basics a little when you play other sports. And then you can relate the sports together. When you play one, you have more of a “must progress” baseline and sometimes you wind up missing some of the small stuff.

[wit33]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Other sports help you develop your skills as a quarterback. Pitching coaches are sometimes brought in to refine mechanics. Arizona and Seattle were pretty happy that their QBs has that pitcher mentality already. 
 

It can bring you back to basics a little when you play other sports. And then you can relate the sports together. When you play one, you have more of a “must progress” baseline and sometimes you wind up missing some of the small stuff.

100% agree on other sports being a great service to athletes and provide a greater ceiling as a result. For example, Mahomes came in with horrible mechanics and still struggles with them today, but obviously he makes up for in many other ways. Just seems a guy who has been a pocket passing type QB since age 7 (whatever it is) and has been groomed from an early stage (Trainers, camps, coaches) that his fundamentals and mechanics would be clean. Not a damning thing, just interesting. 
 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

I'd like to see Logan Thomas in for some trick plays at QB, or some Taysom Hill impersonations.

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

He actually reminded me of a stronger armed Alex Smith this week. Not awe inspiring. Didn’t make ridiculous throws into tight windows... got rid of the ball fairly quickly... didn’t turn the ball over.

 

As a progression step for him I really like that mindset/blueprint. Hopefully he elevates beyond that, but if he turns out to be close to Alex Smith there’s much worse ways to be.

 

You can tell he’s listening to 11.

 

I really like Smith. His contract? Not so much. But Smith? I like him a lot. And I don’t think we’re 3-13 with Smith last year. Though in hindsight, He Who Shalt Not Be Named is gone because of that... so... silver linings and all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

this one got my attention

 

 

 

That is an absolute laser away from the defender where only Inman (I believe) can get it.  Just a missile.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

That is an absolute laser away from the defender where only Inman (I believe) can get it.  Just a missile.  

 

Wasn't it Eagles' players that said Haskins liked to throw it into tight places, and they were going to take advantage of that ?

Pretty impressive that they knew he'd do it, and he still did it, and they still couldn't stop it.

But can't remember if it was from Eagles, or maybe from the Cards, in preparation for Game 2. But I think it was Eagles.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

 

This is from only 1 game (plus Week 2 TNF game giving Burrow/Mayfield an extra sample).  Division QB's are in blue.

 

IAY/ Attempt = how far the QB's threw the ball on average down the field.

 

So it's a measure of how aggressive QB's were mixed with how accurate they were in general terms.  If I recall from last season, most of the dots gravitated closer to the 6-7 IAY/Attempt range.  Certainly doesn't look like that'll be the case from just 1 game, but we'll find out.

 

P.S.  If you're looking for our next opponent, Murray is way on the left side.  He did not throw the ball far down the field.  They definitely tried to spread defenses laterally as much as possible.

 

[KDawg]

The key word in my phrasing was “ridiculous”. He knows his strength now and doesn’t overestimate it. That makes him formidable.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

100% agree on other sports being a great service to athletes and provide a greater ceiling as a result. For example, Mahomes came in with horrible mechanics and still struggles with them today, but obviously he makes up for in many other ways. Just seems a guy who has been a pocket passing type QB since age 7 (whatever it is) and has been groomed from an early stage (Trainers, camps, coaches) that his fundamentals and mechanics would be clean. Not a damning thing, just interesting. 
 

 

 

Could be a situation where there's only limited time (with schoolwork, etc) and no matter what they may say about developing x,y, or z, a coach's primary motivation is winning. So if they have an extremely talented young guy like Haskins in HS and college, and he's getting the job done and they're winning, the coach may decide not to mess with it too much...even if it may not be what's best for the player in the long run.

 

So perhaps bad habits that are hidden by superior talent may develop early and never get corrected because until he gets to the NFL, he's pretty much always been the best player on the field, no matter his mechanics. 

[MisterPinstripe]

Not looking forward to Chandler Jones on Dwaynes blindside against Christian. 

[FootballZombie]

Considering how fast he was getting the ball out last week, I’m surprised Haskins managed middle of the road avg depth. I would have assumed everything was 3 yd slants to ensure he could remain in the world of the living behind our O-line.

 

Just gotta bump that accuracy up 5-10 points and he would be in good shape.

 

[dyst]

All the positive words on Haskins is great BUT it needs to show in game. So far he looks average at best in his 9 games of action. 

[Stone Cold]

4 minutes ago, dyst said:

All the positive words on Haskins is great BUT it needs to show in game. So far he looks average at best in his 9 games of action. 

He’s competing ugly right now.  Wait til it clicks....and I believe it will

[Riggo#44]

7 hours ago, volsmet said:

Protection and reps. The mechanical issues are uniquely grotesque (though not necessarily confining), the talent is undeniable, the toughness is there, the leadership is coming. 

 

He's demonstrated he has those things you don't get from practice and reps.

[volsmet]

9 hours ago, wit33 said:

Strange that these are struggle areas, due to him being groomed to be a QB and QB only at a young age. Wonder where his training, coaches, or his work ethic failed him, in this regard. One can gather a multi sport athlete struggling with mechanics or a late bloomer, but a dude who’s been hyper focused from an early age you’d think would be pretty “clean” mechanically. 
 

Thoughts?

He’s been so successful, with his mechanics, that coaches would rather work with them than see him transfer in hs or college. The variance in outcomes only comes into play in a very limited number of scenarios, so there aren’t many opportunities to tell him how much better he could be ... while everyone was courting his services. 
 

At this level it’s different. He will adapt or fail. His ceiling is astronomical because he has success without the basics fundamentally... but his floor is bust, because a significant flaw needs to be remedied or worked around. 
 

He is more gifted than Lock or Jones, but his outcomes are far less reliable... on a pass by pass basis as well as on the whole.

 

 

[volsmet]

8 hours ago, wit33 said:

100% agree on other sports being a great service to athletes and provide a greater ceiling as a result. For example, Mahomes came in with horrible mechanics and still struggles with them today, but obviously he makes up for in many other ways. Just seems a guy who has been a pocket passing type QB since age 7 (whatever it is) and has been groomed from an early stage (Trainers, camps, coaches) that his fundamentals and mechanics would be clean. Not a damning thing, just interesting. 
 

 

 

On 10/7/2019 at 9:02 PM, volsmet said:

Many of those, who are more accurate when fundamentals break down, are guys who were great at baseball or basketball growing up; the touch and arm slots necessary to make different shots & throw across a diamond are invaluable to guys like Murray. Those guys have made the throw from ss 9,000,000 times, throws charging the ball in practice & throwing side arm 5,000,000 times - it’s a different sort of kinematic & kinetic coordination.

 

 

 

On 5/8/2019 at 11:21 PM, volsmet said:

 

Lots of QBs make plays in chaos in college. Haskins doesn’t have the natural gifts that allow him to make throws off platform & Ohio state protected him incredibly well by scheme & with 5 star OL v 3 star big ten recruits. Lock is much more natural when things break down in protection, Haskins needs things to be nearly perfect. Lock had 4 years, Haskins just the one... it’s an ask that I believe is underestimated here, but I hope our young QB is up to the challenge. When you see a guys arm so unnatural when he’s moving, there is often a disconnect in fluidity that will never be resolved by anything but elite pass protection & tireless preparation. The position is getting easier, and Dwayne can make the most difficult passes, I just hope the middle of our line finds some answers & Jay lets DH throw on less predictable situations if he’s going to start in 2019.

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Wasn't it Eagles' players that said Haskins liked to throw it into tight places, and they were going to take advantage of that ?

Pretty impressive that they knew he'd do it, and he still did it, and they still couldn't stop it.

But can't remember if it was from Eagles, or maybe from the Cards, in preparation for Game 2. But I think it was Eagles.

 

 

Philly worked on and wanted this throw, but they couldn’t beat the arm to the spot:

On 9/14/2020 at 12:28 AM, volsmet said:

V a decent LB, one with more than 30 2019 snaps under his belt, this is likely heading the other way, ending the game. DH does precisely what Riley is told he will do, but the arm of DH & a below average lb allow us to escape this decision. Riley doesn’t have the burst to make a play they worked on all week, the scout team QB doesn’t get the ball there with quite as much zip as DH does. 
 

I know ... DH is perfect, but this is 7 the other way too often to let it rip here on first down. 

 

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

8 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

This is from only 1 game (plus Week 2 TNF game giving Burrow/Mayfield an extra sample).  Division QB's are in blue.

 

IAY/ Attempt = how far the QB's threw the ball on average down the field.

 

So it's a measure of how aggressive QB's were mixed with how accurate they were in general terms.  If I recall from last season, most of the dots gravitated closer to the 6-7 IAY/Attempt range.  Certainly doesn't look like that'll be the case from just 1 game, but we'll find out.

 

P.S.  If you're looking for our next opponent, Murray is way on the left side.  He did not throw the ball far down the field.  They definitely tried to spread defenses laterally as much as possible.

 

 

 

 

So if I’m grasping this correctly Lamar Jackson and Kirk Cousins were pretty much at the top of the qb  class with respect to this stat?