FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[HoggLife]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Not at all.

 

His mechanics remind me a bit of Marino in my very ignorant view (not sure it’s quite as quick as Marino, but they both seem to develop a lot of their power from the upper half)

I'm by far no expert but I have thought he has a quick release like Marino also. 

[wit33]

4 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

I'm by far no expert but I have thought he has a quick release like Marino also. 

Fair to conclude TWO non experts agreeing can equal 1 expert? If so, we have the next Marino on our hands  

[volsmet]

6 hours ago, wit33 said:

He was being compared to Byron Leftwich coming out lol Hes much faster and nimble than people thought. I imagine that will improve with improved conditioning. 

 

49 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

I'm by far no expert but I have thought he has a quick release like Marino also. 

The release is quick, the arm is extraordinary, the results of his passes are far too varied. It’s all about the mechanics, he’s got the mind & the arm, but he needs the reps. 

[Riggo#44]

16 minutes ago, volsmet said:

The release is quick, the arm is extraordinary, the results of his passes are far too varied. It’s all about the mechanics, he’s got the mind & the arm, but he needs the reps. 

Have you seen anything in his workout videos that shows his mechanics are improving?

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

Have you seen anything in his workout videos that shows his mechanics are improving?

 

Is it against the rules for Zampese to work with him up until now ?

[Riggo#44]

10 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Is it against the rules for Zampese to work with him up until now ?

 

I have no idea. I know they're working over zoom, but I don't think they're allowed to meet face to face yet? It's so convoluted.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, HoggLife said:

I'm by far no expert but I have thought he has a quick release like Marino also. 

 

I dunno. Haskins has a quick release, but I've never really seen one to quite match Marino's. His was borderline superhuman. It was like he had surgery when he was a kid where they replaced all of the tendons in his shoulder with industrial strength rubber bands or something. 

[moondog]

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

The release is quick, the arm is extraordinary, the results of his passes are far too varied. It’s all about the mechanics, he’s got the mind & the arm, but he needs the reps. 

Not saying this to blow up your ego or anything, but I've come to siphon through things looking for your comments because they have proven insightful, correct and on point. I trust your thoughts and appreciate your input and insight. I'm really excited about Dwayne and his future here. I was excited when we took him, disappointed in his early play and about as disappointed as one can be about his selfie incident when Keenum took the final knee. But since then I've been nothing but impressed by him and really think he can develop into the QB we've so desperately wanted as a fanbase for so long. Thank you for contributing to that hope as I think he can will only get exponentially better with support from the FO/staff and experience. 

[HTTRDynasty]

https://www.pff.com/news/bet-2020-nfl-win-totals-washington-redskins-dwayne-haskins-ron-rivera

 

There has been a lot of news about the Washington football team over the past week or so, most of it frankly a long time coming. One thing that isn’t being frequently discussed, however, is that they are being undervalued in the betting markets.

 

Currently, Washington’s win total is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 or 5.5 wins. For example, on FanDuel Sportsbook, they are going off at 5, with the overpriced at -120. Unlike our previous two win totals articles, which liked the unders for the Las Vegas Raiders and Minnesota Vikings, we think that Washington will go over that total. Let’s look at the case for and against that bet.

 

DWAYNE HASKINS IS UNDERRATED

When looking at basic counting stats from 2019, the Ohio State product was underwhelming relative to first overall pick Kyler Murray, sixth-round sensation Gardner Minshew and even divisional rival Daniel Jones. 

 

Firstly, Haskins didn’t start his first game until Week 9, and in previous appearances against the New York Giants and Minnesota Vikings, he threw zero touchdowns and four interceptions. There were rumors that the previous coaching staff wasn’t enamored with him, as evidenced by the midseason start given to veteran Colt McCoy against the New England Patriots.

 

However, the rookie was more than passable once things stabilized. From Week 11 through Week 17, his PFF passing grade — which ranked 10th in the NFL over that span — was better than all three of his division rivals in Dak Prescott (17th), Carson Wentz (26th) and Jones (16th). It also topped fellow rookies Murray (31st), Minshew (23rd) and Drew Lock (28th) as well as players such as Matt Ryan (11th), Tom Brady (19th), Aaron Rodgers (20th) and Philip Rivers (21st). 

 

Only Ryan Tannehill (one) had fewer turnover-worthy plays than Haskins (three) during that time, even though Haskins’ average depth of target was the sixth-highest in the league (10.1 yards). He was being helped a bit by players such as Terry McLaurin, as Haskins’ percentage of “catchable but inaccurate” passes was the highest among qualifying quarterbacks over that period (28.2%). Still, the returns were somewhat encouraging and are not being properly priced into the marketplace, in my estimation.

 

THE DEFENSE HAS YOUNG TALENT

It’s difficult to find a front four with more young talent than Washington’s, with second overall pick Chase Young joining a group that includes first-round picks Jonathan Allen and Montez Sweat along with the productive Daron Payne and Matt Ioannidis. Together, Allen, Sweat, Payne and Ioannidis combined to generate about a quarter of a win above replacement last year.

 

The side also brought back Kendall Fuller, who was a part of the Alex Smith trade in the spring of 2018, to pair him with 2019 addition Landon Collins to give them some talent in the secondary. They will need some positive variance from veterans Aaron Colvin and Ronald Darby, along with development from Fabian Moreau, Greg Stroman and Jimmy Moreland to have an upper-tier defense, but that isn’t the bar when the win total is five games.

 

THE DIVISION AND SCHEDULE ARE NOT AS DAUNTING AS FIRST PERCEIVED

After a season in which an unimpressive 9-7 team won the division, there are a lot of positive vibes about the Philadelphia Eagles and Dallas Cowboys going into the 2020 season. While we mostly believe in the vibes surrounding the Cowboys, given a predicted rebirth by head coach Mike McCarthy, they still lost Travis Frederick and Byron Jones, and Dak Prescott’s long-term standing is in question. 

 

The Eagles lost two of their three most valuable players from a season ago in Malcolm Jenkins and Brandon Brooks. And while we liked a lot of their draft picks, COVID-19 is going to require youngsters to acclimate to the NFL faster than usual.

 

While the Giants are in a similar position to Washington, leaning on the improvement of a second-year quarterback and breaking in a new coach, their win total is higher than Washington’s (6 wins at FanDuel), while their schedule is one of the league’s hardest (eighth, versus 20th for Washington). 

 

Washington’s second game against the Giants comes with a one-week rest differential, and while they do have a three-game stretch of road games in the season’s second half, six of their first 10 games are at home. 

 

DO THEY HAVE SOMEONE BESIDES MCLAURIN TO THROW TO?

Terry McLaurin was the most valuable rookie in the NFL in 2019, but he goes into the 2020 NFL season as the only bona fide option in the Washington passing game. 

 

Antonio Gibson and Antonio Gandy-Golden have some promise, but Washington will still be faced with similar issues to Philadelphia above when it comes to weapons in the passing game. Furthermore, the team released the often unfit Jordan Reed this offseason while Vernon Davis retired, leaving them with Jeremy Sprinkle as the starting tight end heading into 2020. If Haskins doesn’t improve, this is an easy reason to spot as to why.

 

CONCLUSION

The 2020 season will be one in which mean-reversion is pretty strong. So while the unders on teams thought to be pretty good are probably solid plays, the overs on teams everyone thinks will disappoint are fine options to look, as well.

 

Washington has a good young quarterback, a coach who has never had a full season where he finished worse than 6-10 and new leadership sans the much-maligned Bruce Allen. It’s hard to sell me on them as a contender in the NFC, but coming away with more than five wins is more than doable in 2020.

 

[bakedtater1]

On 7/7/2020 at 7:46 PM, mistertim said:

 

I dunno. Haskins has a quick release, but I've never really seen one to quite match Marino's. His was borderline superhuman. It was like he had surgery when he was a kid where they replaced all of the tendons in his shoulder with industrial strength rubber bands or something. 

No one has had a release like Marino scince...Marino.

[Anselmheifer]

https://twitter.com/skinstoday/status/1281982090159042562?s=20

[MartinC]

On 7/7/2020 at 6:46 PM, mistertim said:

 

I dunno. Haskins has a quick release, but I've never really seen one to quite match Marino's. His was borderline superhuman. It was like he had surgery when he was a kid where they replaced all of the tendons in his shoulder with industrial strength rubber bands or something. 

One of the knocks on Marino when he was coming out of Pitt was they said he ‘pushed’ the ball. He threw from his ear. 
 

What people seemed to miss was he consistently pushed it about 65 yards downfield into ridiculously small windows.

[KDawg]

Haskins mechanics are his primary limiting factor. He is all over the place mechanically and he has entirely too many poor passes followed up with a good one. 
 

That tells you two things: 1) he can do it. 2) he has the consistency of bad breakfast oatmeal. 
 

His mechanics have not looked to improve much, if at all, in the training videos he’s posted. Having said that, mechanics are a fickle beast. No one gives a **** about them if you’re putting up positive numbers. No coach is going to absolutely **** on a guy who is producing at a high level because of his release point or foot work. 
 

Those items are called into question when the player hasn’t shown that ability. 
 

I don’t care if Haskins throws the ball from his head with his feet if he’s producing. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

His mechanics have not looked to improve much, if at all, in the training videos he’s posted. Having said that, mechanics are a fickle beast. No one gives a **** about them if you’re putting up positive numbers. No coach is going to absolutely **** on a guy who is producing at a high level because of his release point or foot work. 

 

I'm not the best with QB mechanics.  But while he looks better in his movement, I was thinking I can't tell if that's making his mechanics better or not.  We're also getting such cherry picked videos.  Everybody looks good in videos like this.

[wit33]

On 7/13/2020 at 8:25 PM, KDawg said:

Haskins mechanics are his primary limiting factor. He is all over the place mechanically and he has entirely too many poor passes followed up with a good one. 
 

That tells you two things: 1) he can do it. 2) he has the consistency of bad breakfast oatmeal. 
 

His mechanics have not looked to improve much, if at all, in the training videos he’s posted. Having said that, mechanics are a fickle beast. No one gives a **** about them if you’re putting up positive numbers. No coach is going to absolutely **** on a guy who is producing at a high level because of his release point or foot work. 
 

Those items are called into question when the player hasn’t shown that ability. 
 

I don’t care if Haskins throws the ball from his head with his feet if he’s producing. 

Mahomes has horrible mechanics. I’ll just remind myself of that and hope Haskins become a poor mans Mahomes. 

[Passepartout]

Just hope he can be the QB of the future. Will give him a free pass for growing pains in a rookie season.

[redskinss]

8 hours ago, MartinC said:

One of the knocks on Marino when he was coming out of Pitt was they said he ‘pushed’ the ball. He threw from his ear. 
 

What people seemed to miss was he consistently pushed it about 65 yards downfield into ridiculously small windows.

there's always been a little part of me that wishes Marino had fallen one more slot.

can you imagine the dynasty we'd have had with marino at the helm?

but then I realize we would have missed out on one of the greatest Redskins ever and I'm glad the dolphins picked him.

[Going Commando]

The QBs that get to this level have repeatable mechanics that work for them.  There isn't a style of throwing that's canon.  I what matters is if the player is efficient and productive, and Haskins was ultra efficient and productive at Ohio State.  The footwork Haskins is developing in all of those videos is about getting the muscle memory and feel to move around a muddy pocket and stay balanced and ready to throw.  They're fairly advanced movement drills.

 

Throwing mechanics are a very small sliver of what makes or breaks an NFL QB.  QBing at this level is all about reading/decision making, toughness, and leadership.  That's what Haskins needs to develop and demonstrate in order to make it.  He's making strides and he has always been a super smart and instinctive quarterback.  Those traits plus the golden arm define him as a player.  His accuracy and playmaking efficiency come from him being really intuitive and good with his receivers.  He gets them and knows how to utilize them as weapons.  Knows when and how to go off schedule with timing or placement to give them a chance to playmake.  He has good chemistry with these guys and it's a largely unspoken thing, it's not really about mechanics.

[HoggLife]

On 7/7/2020 at 8:24 PM, wit33 said:

Fair to conclude TWO non experts agreeing can equal 1 expert? If so, we have the next Marino on our hands  

Just because someone has a quick release like Marino doesn't mean he has all the other things Marino had. If we said he has the body of Jermarcus Russell does that mean he is going to eat a ton and get fat and be out of football in a couple years? 

[wit33]

14 hours ago, HoggLife said:

Just because someone has a quick release like Marino doesn't mean he has all the other things Marino had. If we said he has the body of Jermarcus Russell does that mean he is going to eat a ton and get fat and be out of football in a couple years? 

Jared Lorenzen would’ve driven home your point even more lol

 

My wink face was to imply it’s highly unlikely Haskins becomes arguably the best thrower of the football the game has ever seen  (Marino), but Haskins has a quick release that reminds me of Marino. I get the push back though. 
 

What if I say his release reminds me of Jeff George, can we be okay with that? Man, George could really spin it at an all time elite level. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Urban Meyer calls DH the best QB recruit he'd ever seen coming out of high school.

Said, as a Junior in High School, DH was already better than any of the college QB's he'd seen.

That would explain why he only needed 1 year of college experience.

 

 

 

 

[wit33]

12 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Urban Meyer calls DH the best QB recruit he'd ever seen coming out of high school.

Said, as a Junior in High School, DH was already better than any of the college QB's he'd seen.

That would explain why he only needed 1 year of college experience.

 

 

 

 

If he puts up a dynamic season his arm talent will gain similar awe to what Mahomes receives (just arm talent). Hoping he becomes the poor mans Mahomes. Now go get him more speeeeed!
 

 

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, wit33 said:

If he puts up a dynamic season his arm talent will gain similar awe to what Mahomes receives (just about talent). Hoping he becomes the poor mans Mahomes. Now go get him more speeeeed

 

Like he had with the group of Parris Campbell, Terry McLaurin, Chris Olave, and Johnnie Dixon.  Some of the types of throws he excelled with that season were crossers of pretty much all depths, and bombs where there wasn't a ton of air under the ball and he could trust his guys to get there on time.  He can dissect zones in the middle of the field because of how easily and naturally he can push the ball, and he's instinctive enough to adjust catch points away from safeties and put it where the receiver can make a play on it.  And he's got shallow window touch that gave great catch and run guys like Campbell and Olave good opportunities to make plays.

 

You're right that McLaurin isn't enough speed.  That's why I'm hoping Gibson can play a lot of H-Back like Parris Campbell did.  He's the only other blazing fast guy we have aside from Bryce Love, and who knows when we'll see him take the field.  Between him and Steven Sims's jitterbug act in the middle of the field, I'm hoping we can replicate a lot of the catch and run success Ohio State had in 2018.

 

The other big think is get him some protection.  Those 25 and 30 yard lasers that split zones take time for the receivers to run the routes, even when they're fast guys.  Dwayne can't be having both a bad line and bad wr/te group like he's got now and utilize his big arm.

 

One thing we may have in our favor though is Guice.  Dobbins wasn't necessarily a versatile runner and he didn't thrive playing with Haskins.  Guice is a versatile runner who can clearly thrive playing in a traditional pro style run game like he did in brief action last season, and at LSU before that.  A healthy Guice gives Dwayne a real partner is carrying the offensive load and makes the outlook for our skill positions look 100% better.

[wit33]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Like he had with the group of Parris Campbell, Terry McLaurin, Chris Olave, and Johnnie Dixon.  Some of the types of throws he excelled with that season were crossers of pretty much all depths, and bombs where there wasn't a ton of air under the ball and he could trust his guys to get there on time.  He can dissect zones in the middle of the field because of how easily and naturally he can push the ball, and he's instinctive enough to adjust catch points away from safeties and put it where the receiver can make a play on it.  And he's got shallow window touch that gave great catch and run guys like Campbell and Olave good opportunities to make plays.

 

His willingness and desire to push the ball down the field is what has me most intrigued—coupled with his elite arm talent and burgeoning pocket mobility/presence. 
 

My worry is that pushing the ball and wanting to be a difference maker gets coached out of him and he just becomes a middle of the road QB (ho hum), but middle of the road QB on a rookie deal has tremendous value, though I’d be a tad disappointed.

 

Not sure how Rivera is going to be with the offense, but his DNA is to run the ball and play great defense. I’d love a more conservative approach with Alex Smith not Haskins, due to believing Haskins has a game changing arm and mental approach. Rivera hasn’t had this much power ever, so we’ll see how he manages it and how much freedom he gives the offensive coaches, especially during friction zones in a season. He’s credited with having a hands-off approach in Carolina, but the Cam Newton led offense was way ahead the curve it was based on a ground and pound type approach, this aligning with Rivera (an easy sell for him). 

 

Let Haskins be free and explore his ceiling. Better yet, employ a system that requires him to be aggressive. 

 

Quote

 

You're right that McLaurin isn't enough speed.  That's why I'm hoping Gibson can play a lot of H-Back like Parris Campbell did.  He's the only other blazing fast guy we have aside from Bryce Love, and who knows when we'll see him take the field.  Between him and Steven Sims's jitterbug act in the middle of the field, I'm hoping we can replicate a lot of the catch and run success Ohio State had in 2018.

 

Nowhere close to enough speed— I want WRs 4, 5, and a practice squad guy or two who all run sub 4.4s. Never wish injury on a guy, but hoping Harmons injury leads to a speed guy taking his spot. 

 

One can conclude the offense has the ability to threaten all levels of the field with power duo of AP/Guice, Sims/Mckissic  jitterbugging 0-10 yards, and Mcclaurin taking the top off among other things. Not crazy to speculate on those things taking place.

 

Quote

 

The other big think is get him some protection.  Those 25 and 30 yard lasers that split zones take time for the receivers to run the routes, even when they're fast guys.  Dwayne can't be having both a bad line and bad wr/te group like he's got now and utilize his big arm.

Completely lost on what to think about the Oline, I’ve been spoiled with average to above average play from the Oline for years and have lost perspective on what a bad Oline looks like lol. I’m higher than most on Moses, which provides me confidence with the right side is in good shape and center is serviceable. The left side, I’ll continue to listen and learn about who’s projected to fill those spots, but with the right side being able to compete in their 1 on 1s the left side can receive help when and if needed. 

 

The other huge factor is the creativity of the scheme, come on Turner!! 
 

Quote

 

One thing we may have in our favor though is Guice.  Dobbins wasn't necessarily a versatile runner and he didn't thrive playing with Haskins.  Guice is a versatile runner who can clearly thrive playing in a traditional pro style run game like he did in brief action last season, and at LSU before that.  A healthy Guice gives Dwayne a real partner is carrying the offensive load and makes the outlook for our skill positions look 100% better.

The RB room is the real deal and we all have our fingers crossed for health of Guice. He’s dynamic in every way and compliments any style of play or situation. I like Mckissic, even more than a Chris Thompson (admittedly, I’ve always been down on the Thompson hype) due to rare ability to make guys miss. I think he’s a lock to make the team. 
 

Forget who posted the stats, the offensive formation 3Wr/2Rb was rarely used by NFL teams (something like 20-40times, don't quote me on that). The idea of Guice and Gibson in the backfield with Mcclaurin, Sims, and another speed guy is a cool hypothetical. What are your thoughts on a formation such as this: why isn’t used? Pros and cons? 

[Anselmheifer]

15 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You're right that McLaurin isn't enough speed.  That's why I'm hoping Gibson can play a lot of H-Back like Parris Campbell did.  He's the only other blazing fast guy we have aside from Bryce Love, and who knows when we'll see him take the field.  Between him and Steven Sims's jitterbug act in the middle of the field, I'm hoping we can replicate a lot of the catch and run success Ohio State had in 2018.

 

The other big think is get him some protection.  Those 25 and 30 yard lasers that split zones take time for the receivers to run the routes, even when they're fast guys.  Dwayne can't be having both a bad line and bad wr/te group like he's got now and utilize his big arm.

 

One thing we may have in our favor though is Guice.  Dobbins wasn't necessarily a versatile runner and he didn't thrive playing with Haskins.  Guice is a versatile runner who can clearly thrive playing in a traditional pro style run game like he did in brief action last season, and at LSU before that.  A healthy Guice gives Dwayne a real partner is carrying the offensive load and makes the outlook for our skill positions look 100% better.

 

We could definitely use some team speed. Getting guys like Gibson and McKissic will give us the ability adds another dimension. Remember how well the offense functioned when it was running through a healthy Jordan Reed and Chris Thompson? That's how I imagine Gibson. A bigger, even more explosive Chris Thompson. Now, if we could add a TE and one more speed receiver, we'd have the makings of a really, really solid group. We have a WR1. We haven't had one of those in what seems like forever. I think Sims is an impact player. I think Gibson can be one in the passing game as a RB. There are pieces.