FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I said it before, I'll say it again. I wonder what the conversation around Mahomes would have been if he had to start in his 1st season?

It’s unclear,  but probably it would have been fine for 2 reasons:  1. Mahomes is a hell of a player in his own right.  2. Andy Reid is a hell of a coach and would have a plan. 
 

But there’s no question Mahomes benefited from having time to develop and watching what Amex Smith did to prepare.  
 

I still think he gets there by year 2 regardless.  But year 1 might have been more average.  

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

RG3 led the team to a division and the majority of the fan base was okay with moving on from him just 2 years later.  Haskins has played 6 good quarters of football and hasn't won anything, but the majority of fans (at least the ones on the internet) are petrified of the thought of drafting another quarterback.  It really makes no sense to me.  

 

Well, on the flip side of that one could say that it also makes very little sense to jettison a 1st round QB after only 7 starts when he played well and showed promise in his last few games. Wouldn't it be worth it to see if he continues to grow instead of immediately spending a #2 overall pick the next shiny object when there is a potential generational pass rushing prospect sitting in your lap there?

 

1 hour ago, dyst said:

Too much smoke on Haskins. It's quite easy if he wants to shut the narrative down, be smarter and play better. 

 

How exactly is he supposed to do this in the off season? He doesn't have any control over the narrative right now with regard to the anonymous statements, etc...and he can't prove himself / shut people up via his play right now. So what is it you want him to do? It's not like he's coming out and starting flame wars on twitter or making dumb public statements after all of this. He seems to more or less be keeping his head down. 

[ggarriso]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well, on the flip side of that one could say that it also makes very little sense to jettison a 1st round QB after only 7 starts when he played well and showed promise in his last few games. Wouldn't it be worth it to see if he continues to grow instead of immediately spending a #2 overall pick the next shiny object when there is a potential generational pass rushing prospect sitting in your lap there?

 

 

 

For better or worse, Haskins is a sunk cost - the biggest mistake any organization can make is to double down on a gaff or stubbornly stick by a bad decision.  QB is hands down a more impactful position than EDGE in todays NFL, and IF the coaching staff (for whatever reason) does not believe that DH has the stuff to take this team to the next level and if the staff does believe that Tua has it, they have to pass on Young and go to Tua.

[dyst]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

How exactly is he supposed to do this in the off season? He doesn't have any control over the narrative right now with regard to the anonymous statements, etc...and he can't prove himself / shut people up via his play right now. So what is it you want him to do? It's not like he's coming out and starting flame wars on twitter or making dumb public statements after all of this. He seems to more or less be keeping his head down. 

I mean even last year. Dude looked lost. Can blame Jay all we want for not prepping him but I doubt Kirk was prepped and when he came in, we were still rolling that rookie year.
 

I doubt there is a grand conspiracy out to get Haskins. Reporters make mention of it. Doug Williams is constantly dropping hints and didn’t AP make suggestions to him also.

All signs point to him not being ready like he should be from a personal level. 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Just now, dyst said:

I mean even last year. Dude looked lost. Can blame Jay all we want for not prepping him but I doubt Kirk was prepped and when he came in, we were still rolling that rookie year.
 

I doubt there is a grand conspiracy out to get Haskins. Reporters make mention of it. Doug Williams is constantly dropping hints and didn’t AP make suggestions to him also.

All signs point to him not being ready like he should be from a personal level. 

 

Last season? Perhaps.

 

But this is a new season so let's see what happens.🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

[dyst]

Just now, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Last season? Perhaps.

 

But this is a new season so let's see what happens.🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

Yes agreed. Basically what I am saying is, this year can he shut that narrative down if he just lights it up or at least looks like those 1.5 games.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

34 minutes ago, dyst said:

Yes agreed. Basically what I am saying is, this year can he shut that narrative down if he just lights it up or at least looks like those 1.5 games.

 

 

He needs to show sustained growth....and I believe he will.

 

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, dyst said:

I mean even last year. Dude looked lost. Can blame Jay all we want for not prepping him but I doubt Kirk was prepped and when he came in, we were still rolling that rookie year.
 

I doubt there is a grand conspiracy out to get Haskins. Reporters make mention of it. Doug Williams is constantly dropping hints and didn’t AP make suggestions to him also.

All signs point to him not being ready like he should be from a personal level. 

 

 

But you didn't answer my question. What exactly is it you want him to do right now that will help change that narrative or even just your opinion? He can't show his improvement via his play yet. Rivera and others have talked about how he seems to be putting in the work. He hasn't being playing the fool and doing stupid **** on social media or getting into arguments. He's basically been keeping a mostly low profile. 

[JSSkinz]

All I read and heard for a year or so was how great Tua is and the fact he was a generational talent that you don't see very often.

 

If the medical reports come back spectacular and the rest of his previous injuries look like a non factor going forward then we would have to be idiots not to take him based on everything that has been said on every sports forum for the previous 12 months prior to his injury.

 

We see great defensive players on teams with underperforming QB's and it ain't good, QB's just make more of an impact so let's make sure we get this right because it maybe 10 or 15 years before we have another chance to draft a QB with Tua's talent.

[mistertim]

23 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

 

For better or worse, Haskins is a sunk cost - the biggest mistake any organization can make is to double down on a gaff or stubbornly stick by a bad decision.  QB is hands down a more impactful position than EDGE in todays NFL, and IF the coaching staff (for whatever reason) does not believe that DH has the stuff to take this team to the next level and if the staff does believe that Tua has it, they have to pass on Young and go to Tua.

 

You somehow know he's a sunk cost after 7 starts in his rookie year? I can't think of a single 1st round QB who was given up on that quickly or after that few starts. Even guys like Leaf, Shuler, and Akili Smith got more starts than that. Yes, Arizona got rid of Rosen after 1 year but IMO that was a pretty unique situation with them having the #1 pick as well as having a guy there who had thrived in the new coach's scheme in college. He also started for most of his rookie season. 

 

To me calling Haskins a sunk cost or a bust at this point is just as silly as calling him the next great QB. We just don't know yet. 

 

8 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

All I read and heard for a year or so was how great Tua is and the fact he was a generational talent that you don't see very often.

 

If the medical reports come back spectacular and the rest of his previous injuries look like a non factor going forward then we would have to be idiots not to take him based on everything that has been said on every sports forum for the previous 12 months prior to his injury.

 

We see great defensive players on teams with underperforming QB's and it ain't good, QB's just make more of an impact so let's make sure we get this right because it maybe 10 or 15 years before we have another chance to draft a QB with Tua's talent.

 

I don't really see how anyone could count multiple injuries requiring 3 surgeries before even leaving college as a "non-factor", no matter how his medicals look right now. A generational talent doesn't do much for you if he can't stay on the field. 

[JSSkinz]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I don't really see how anyone could count multiple injuries requiring 3 surgeries before even leaving college as a "non-factor", no matter how his medicals look right now. A generational talent doesn't do much for you if he can't stay on the field. 

The injuries are the only negative for Tua but a big one especially for us because we've been burnt so many times.

 

I don't think Haskins is a bust and I'm fine if the team moves forward with him but don't you want football people to make that decision?  We know that didn't happen last year, all I'm saying is for once we actually have football people making decisions so let's leave all options on the table and if that means we move on from Haskins then so be it, I don't want our future to be locked in on a guy the owner drafted if he isn't a fit.

[Stadium-Armory]

10 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You somehow know he's a sunk cost after 7 starts in his rookie year? I can't think of a single 1st round QB who was given up on that quickly or after that few starts. Even guys like Leaf, Shuler, and Akili Smith got more starts than that. Yes, Arizona got rid of Rosen after 1 year but IMO that was a pretty unique situation with them having the #1 pick as well as having a guy there who had thrived in the new coach's scheme in college. He also started for most of his rookie season. 

 

To me calling Haskins a sunk cost or a bust at this point is just as silly as calling him the next great QB. We just don't know yet. 

 

 

I don't really see how anyone could count multiple injuries requiring 3 surgeries before even leaving college as a "non-factor", no matter how his medicals look right now. A generational talent doesn't do much for you if he can't stay on the field. 

 

I think you're confused about the definition of sunk cost. It isn't about his play. It basically means "you've already spent that money it can't be recovered so it isn't a factor in future decision making".  

[Hooper]

It's weird how so many have completely forgot how improved Haskins looked as the season progressed.

 

His last two starts showed incredible promise IMO. 

 

And Tua is on the small end with real injury history. If I was making the pick, I would have to think Haskins is close to a lost cause and think Tua is really something special. 

[ggarriso]

12 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

 

I think you're confused about the definition of sunk cost. It isn't about his play. It basically means "you've already spent that money it can't be recovered so it isn't a factor in future decision making".  

 

Stadium-Armory summed it up well - my assertion is not based on my personal prediction about the future for DH (well documented in this thread) but rather just saying, DH is on the team, the pick is gone, its a sunk cost.  This pick should not be about reflecting on resources already spent but rather about what makes this team most competitive moving forward.  If the coaches and talent evaluators believe that Tua (or anyone else for that matter) is a top 5 QB for the next 10 years on the level of a Brees or Rodgers, they absolutely have to take him if they do not feel they have one on the roster - the position is that critical.

 

[dyst]

42 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

But you didn't answer my question. What exactly is it you want him to do right now that will help change that narrative or even just your opinion? He can't show his improvement via his play yet. Rivera and others have talked about how he seems to be putting in the work. He hasn't being playing the fool and doing stupid **** on social media or getting into arguments. He's basically been keeping a mostly low profile. 

He doesn’t have to do anything. He can continue to come in unprepared and just deal with it, or he can hopefully study his ass off this offseason and show us when the games start. My original comment wasn’t geared towards Haskins, but more towards people who are complaining about the “narrative”. That narrative can be quieted the second Haskins shows consistent play. 

[PartyPosse]

55 minutes ago, dyst said:

I mean even last year. Dude looked lost. Can blame Jay all we want for not prepping him but I doubt Kirk was prepped and when he came in, we were still rolling that rookie year.
 

I doubt there is a grand conspiracy out to get Haskins. Reporters make mention of it. Doug Williams is constantly dropping hints and didn’t AP make suggestions to him also.

All signs point to him not being ready like he should be from a personal level. 

 

Kirk was a 4 year starter drafted mostly because he was an nfl-ready QB. There was no “sit him down and let him get up to speed”. That’s the primary reason he was drafted. The team was also significantly better when he came in. He also looked awful the first time he came in. The first time he started was the third to last game of the year. More or less the same game where Haskins figured it out.

 

The only signs that point to him not being ready are fans who don’t like him. They’re the ones that created a narrative and continue to do so. They’re the ones that took “the redskins do due diligence by interviewing Burrow and Tua” as “team wants to move on from Haskins”. Sprinkle in these anonymous sources slandering Dwayne from twitter reporters and the dude can’t do anything to defend him self until the season starts. If he says anything then fans will he like “just like RG3, he can’t keep off social media” and they’ll just twist it against him. It’s what lazy people do.

21 minutes ago, Hooper said:

It's weird how so many have completely forgot how improved Haskins looked as the season progressed.

 

His last two starts showed incredible promise IMO. 

 

And Tua is on the small end with real injury history. If I was making the pick, I would have to think Haskins is close to a lost cause and think Tua is really something special. 

I think some fans are hooked on the idea that most QBs should be able to come in and do what Mahomes did. If the Redskins did end up drafting Tua and he wasn’t throwing 350+ yards and 4 TD by game two, I can’t wait to watch the board melt down.

[KDawg]

Just now, PartyPosse said:

 

 

The only signs that point to him not being ready are fans who don’t like him. They’re the ones that created a narrative and continue to do so. They’re the ones that took “the redskins do due diligence by interviewing Burrow and Tua” as “team wants to move on from Haskins”. Sprinkle in these anonymous sources slandering Dwayne from twitter reporters and the dude can’t do anything to defend him self until the season starts. If he says anything then fans will he like “just like RG3, he can’t keep off social media” and they’ll just twist it against him. It’s what lazy people do.

 

You know, everything you said can be reversed to the other position, right?

 

The only signs that point to him not being ready are fans who don't like him? What? I get you support him, and that is fine. Really. It is. But there's more to suggest he wasn't/isn't ready then there is to suggest he is. Now, that can change. But what makes you think he IS ready? Two good games? (And yes, they were good, and they showed a lot of promise).

 

The ones who took the "the Redskins do due diligence by interviewing Burrow and Tua" as "Team is only trying to get trade suitors!".

 

No argument on the slander. That's petty, stupid, unnecessary and a bad look.

[Skinsinparadise]

I just listened to the Keim segment that was referenced on here.  His points were:

 

A.  The current regime leans optimistic about Haskins

B. They have a plan to push him (motivate him) -- Keim didn't specify what those things are.  But to me it seems obvious and that is they want to keep him on edge and make him feel he has to fight for his job.

C.  They want to see how things play out some more with Haskins before banking on him as being the guy.  They aren't resolved just yet that they got the QB of the future for the next 10 years, etc.

 

Then Keim speculated on his own.

 

A.  If Haskins came back for his senior year he likely would have put up good numbers again in part because that team was loaded with talent.

 

B.  He thinks Burrow would be intriguing if he fell to #2 but with Tua the injury concerns would make him seriously pause

 

I know from other podcasts, Keim is aware of the team's concerns as part of the soup about Haskins.  He's talked about it plenty enough.  So I know Keim isn't in the camp of get off of here, there is nothing to be concerned about Haskins and just enjoy the ride because its headed to be a great one.  He's expressed that they aren't totally sure about Haskins multiple times.

 

As for me, I just want Dan out of the way and let Kyle and Rivera do what they want -- whatever that ends up being.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A.  If Haskins came back for his senior year he likely would have put up good numbers again in part because that team was loaded with talent.

 

One quick correction ... it would have been his Junior year. He came out as a r-So

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/28/ron-rivera-says-dwayne-haskins-will-understand-teams-interest-in-qb-prospects/

 

Cut through the noise. I read on twitter that in this podcast being referenced, Rivera seemed annoyed that the media had picked up the story the way they did. These comments should be bolded and highlighted. Read through the smoke ... Dwayne's our guy.

 

“We’re going to cover all our bases and just see what happens,” Rivera said. “Everybody wants to know what we’re going to do. We can’t tell you what we’re going to do because we don’t know what’s going to happen in front of us.”

Rivera is not worried about how Haskins reacts to the news.

“I think Dwayne is smart enough to understand,” Rivera said. “I really do. It’s been a neat development of a relationship right now between he and I. I think the one thing that I really do appreciate is his hard work already. And I think that’s what everybody needs, to just take a step back and understand that all we’re doing is our due diligence.”

[HTTRDynasty]

Smh.  This franchise.

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

Smh.  This franchise.

 

Seriously, who leaks this ****. Everyone is cleared out. So maddening.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Smh.  This franchise.

 

 

 

Wow, if so.  I take this more seriously than anything else I've read because Silver has nailed down correctly quite a bit about Rivera thus far and he was the one who did the long expose about him months back. 

 

I am not one of the slam dunk Haskins is the dude people on this thread.  I got some questions about him.  i am not sure.  I am back and forth on him.  And to each their own on what people feel about him.  But I don't think it's personal with anyone here about any player.    We got our hard opinions about some guys.  Heck the RG3 thread, Kirk thread, Campbell threads at times were blood baths.  Heck the Alex Smith one, too.  And I've agreed and disagreed with people on it but I think we all want ALL our players to be elite and killer good.  

 

I do agree with the spirit of some of the posts here that its much better for Haskins to be the guy and then we get Chase Young.  And that's the ideal world.  I've been doing the Chase Young thing since October give or take.  But I've also always been a dude who believes you can't win without a QB.

 

I've been a Tua guy for years.  I love him as a player.  I love his intangibles.  If he's healthy I think he's a stud.  But I also hate the idea of this of all teams gambling on an injury prone QB.  So I am torn.    Ideally, I'd love it if the FO sees Haskins in the most optimistic tones that his biggest believers in him see him.   But if they don't, you'll get no complaints from me about Tua with the disclaimer that this organization seems jinxed when it comes to injuries so it would be just our luck that Tua is drafted and boom he has some career ending thing happen to him in training camp. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I think Tua could be amazing. I also think he could be injury-prone, and we'll look back on the 2020 draft when we could have either had Chase and Haskins ... or Haskins and many, many draft picks.

[PartyPosse]

30 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

You know, everything you said can be reversed to the other position, right?

 

The only signs that point to him not being ready are fans who don't like him? What? I get you support him, and that is fine. Really. It is. But there's more to suggest he wasn't/isn't ready then there is to suggest he is. Now, that can change. But what makes you think he IS ready? Two good games? (And yes, they were good, and they showed a lot of promise).

 

The ones who took the "the Redskins do due diligence by interviewing Burrow and Tua" as "Team is only trying to get trade suitors!".

 

No argument on the slander. That's petty, stupid, unnecessary and a bad look.

Based on the progression in his game, it’s not difficult to see his growing pains last year were fairly normal for quarterbacks. Again, I think people want immediacy from their QB and that’s an understandable viewpoint. People see what Mahomes and Watson did and expect similar results. It’s an unrealistic expectation and expecting immediate gratification like that from such an important position can stunt organizations for years. People often forget Mahomes sat his entire first year aside from the last regular season meaningless exhibition. If Mahomes would have started early, and had mediocre numbers but still doing his dazzling “no looks passes” etc, he would be absolutely slammed for it. 
 

Sure Haskins needs to work on things and from I have been hearing he has been. Usually when you have such conflicting reports regarding his willingness to prepare etc then there are obviously certain people with axes to grind. The more that seems to be coming out regarding the previous regimes hatred of drafting Haskins the more I see it as they literally went out of their way to help Haskins fail. Now that’s obviously an opinion and far fetched but it also does match how he was treated.