FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[HTTRDynasty]

 

When it comes to the work ethic concerns we heard about Haskins early last year, I think people have a tendency to completely ignore context and overstate those concerns. 

 

Imagine getting drafted and then, that very same night, you begin to hear reports that the "football people" in the building didn't want you - however, they were overridden by the owner and team president.  These are just unsubstantiated rumors, you assure yourself, so you dismiss those reports. 

 

Then, you get to training camp and it becomes clear those reports were correct when the HC all but ignores you and doesn't have a plan for your development. How many people here would be motivated to be relentless workers at their day job at 22 years old when it's clear your immediate boss never wanted you and there was no opportunity for development?  

 

It's no coincidence we started hearing about a miraculous turnaround in work ethic once Gruden was gone, O'Connell began calling his own plays and the coaches actually began catering to what he did well.  

 

IMO, Haskins is not going to be that guy who you can bury on the end of the depth chart, forget about and expect to dramatically improve due to a tireless work ethic.  He's a guy who needs to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Needs to see what he's working towards.  Needs to see his coaches actually want him on the team.  Needs to see live action.  I think that's the environment he thrives in and that's where he grows and develops at a rapid pace, as we saw at the end of last year.

[veteranskinsfan]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

Did he say anything specific that he liked or didn't like? I'm honestly not sure how I feel about Joe Gibbs when it comes to evaluation of QBs in the modern NFL. Obviously I love the guy like we all do, but did he ever draft and develop any franchise QBs? He obtained Theismann, but that was via a trade, and Theismann had been in the CFL for a couple years already. His only high draft pick QB ended up being mediocre here and then a career backup afterward

He was very careful to not say anything bad and not anything real positive.  He left it on Rivera's crew to figure it out.  But if you look at Gibb's history he always liked to have a veteran quarterback on the roster.  He did not feel comfortable putting his destiny on rookie quarterbacks.  I think Rivera will follow the Gibbs formula unless Haskins starts throwing like Tom Brady in summer workouts and Turner goes to him and says we do not need to bring in a veteran quarterback.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

He was very careful to not say anything bad and not anything real positive.  He left it on Rivera's crew to figure it out.  But if you look at Gibb's history he always liked to have a veteran quarterback on the roster.  He did not feel comfortable putting his destiny on rookie quarterbacks.  I think Rivera will follow the Gibbs formula unless Haskins starts throwing like Tom Brady in summer workouts and Turner goes to him and says we do not need to bring in a veteran quarterback.

 

What makes you think Rivera will follow the Gibbs formula? His first draft at Carolina they picked Cam Newton #1 overall and started him immediately. That doesn't sound like Gibbs. I don't doubt that we'll bring in some vet presence. But I also don't think Haskins has to start looking like Brady to get the starting gig. I think RR just wants to see him put in the necessary off season work and improve.

 

Bringing in a vet QB doesn't mean't they don't like Haskins. It also means we literally may not have anyone else unless we re-sign McCoy or Keenum, unless Alex Smith is ready to go which I find to be an extremely dubious proposition. 

[Est.1974]

Looking past just the FA class, chances are a number of other QBs come up on the trade market when March rolls around. 
 

Trying to figure out what we’ve got in Haskins...man that’s a tough gig on a short timeframe. It’s a big call because I really don’t think anyone is that sure to be honest.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

It's no coincidence we started hearing about a miraculous turnaround in work ethic once Gruden was gone, O'Connell began calling his own plays and the coaches actually began catering to what he did well.  

 

IMO, Haskins is not going to be that guy who you can bury on the end of the depth chart, forget about and expect to dramatically improve due to a tireless work ethic.  He's a guy who needs to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Needs to see what he's working towards.  Needs to see his coaches actually want him on the team.  Needs to see live action.  I think that's the environment he thrives in and that's where he grows and develops at a rapid pace, as we saw at the end of last year.

 

Your theory is certainly possible.  A dude for example like Adrian Peterson has a reputation for working like a maniac relentlessly regardless of context because that's how he rolls.  Maybe Haskins like you said is a different dude and needs external motivational triggers.  That's certainly how I take some of Rivera's comments. His comments almost scream a vibe to egg him on to keep him on edge and by extension motivated.

 

Also, as for his turnaround, I didn't get the vibe from the comments on it that all of a sudden he was working like Peyton but instead he got it going  and made a big leap.  I recall stories like he told one player that he saw the benefit of taking some work home with him.  I forgot which beat guy said it (I think it was Keim).  Among other stories.  Its not hard to piece together (O'Connell flat out implied it) that his poor performance against NY and Minny was jarring to him  and that spurred him to take it up a notch as for preparation.  

 

 I've listened to plenty speak about it including Keim who is very diplomatic typically.   And he among others paint the picture that they are unsure about how hard Haskins is going to work this off season as opposed to them being relaxed about it and are just counting on it going down.  It's an uncertainty.  They aren't negative or positive on it.  I presume they don't want a repeat of last off season where the narrative was that Haskins didn't study his playbook as much as they would have liked. 

 

As for me personally, I lean towards optimism that he does what it takes and the coaches will be pleased.   He strikes me a bit like Clinton Portis personality wise in that he thrives on performing on game day and is competitive as heck and he brings his all but isn't per se a workaholic off the field.  However, I hope that his competitive fire (which is evident to me) and athletic arrogance (which I like even though some here don't) fuels him to develop into a coming real early-stay real late type of dude. 

 

My take is I think he evolves into becoming that type of dude and keeps taking it a peg up as his career evolves.  But at the same time, I can't say its slam dunk where there are no worries.  It seems pretty clear to me that there is some cautious optimism about Haskins but there are some concerns that hopefully he alleviates after this off season. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Then, you get to training camp and it becomes clear those reports were correct when the HC all but ignores you and doesn't have a plan for your development.

That’s quite an assessment you were able to make.

[HTTRDynasty]

14 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

That’s quite an assessment you were able to make.

 

Thanks.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Looking past just the FA class, chances are a number of other QBs come up on the trade market when March rolls around. 
 

Trying to figure out what we’ve got in Haskins...man that’s a tough gig on a short timeframe. It’s a big call because I really don’t think anyone is that sure to be honest.

 

Is it really that big of a call though? How many 1st round QBs only get 7 starts before the organization that drafted them gives up on them and decides to go in a different direction? There's not much of a way to know what we have in Haskins until he plays more and we see how (or if) he continues to develop. I don't see us making any big trades for a QB. That would be ludicrous.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

He was very careful to not say anything bad and not anything real positive.  He left it on Rivera's crew to figure it out.  But if you look at Gibb's history he always liked to have a veteran quarterback on the roster.  He did not feel comfortable putting his destiny on rookie quarterbacks.  I think Rivera will follow the Gibbs formula unless Haskins starts throwing like Tom Brady in summer workouts and Turner goes to him and says we do not need to bring in a veteran quarterback.

 

Are you saying we should look for a veteran backup instead of, say, drafting a QB on Day 3?

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Are you saying we should look for a veteran backup instead of, say, drafting a QB on Day 3?

 

Unless we choose to resign Colt or Case then we'll have to get a vet. Because we'd basically have nobody to back up Haskins. That's assuming that Alex isn't ready to play by the beginning of the season. I still doubt that he ever plays football again.

 

So we either bring back Colt or Case (Case probably wouldn't do it anyway I'm guessing) or we sign another vet. 

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Are you saying we should look for a veteran backup instead of, say, drafting a QB on Day 3?

I gotta day, I’m torn on this.  I’m sure Rivera wants a vet he doesn’t have to start from scratch with (as the backup/competition).  

With Alex on the books though, and multiple needs, paying any significant money for a qb seems pretty counterintuitive.  Means less help via FA to aid in that win-now approach.  ‘Win now” might be the wrong choice of phrases, because it implies ignoring the future, and I think Rivera isn’t likely to mortgage the future for the present.  

So, a potential middle ground solution is trading a pick for a qb on a rookie contract that has already started their acclimation to the NFL.  

I wouldn’t have picked that route to go as I started this post, in fact I was against it, to be honest, but it might make the most sense for Rivera.  If Rivera is serious about winning immediately (which probably helps his push for a better culture), he may, broadly speaking, value FA over the draft.  Therefore, he might prefer to use a pick to trade for a qb (with a cheap contract) rather than a larger contract on a FA.  
 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

So, a potential middle ground solution is trading a pick for a qb on a rookie contract 

Or trade a pick for Kyle Allen, if he’s retained in CAR, who is an ERFA. 

[Est.1974]

9 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Is it really that big of a call though? How many 1st round QBs only get 7 starts before the organization that drafted them gives up on them and decides to go in a different direction? There's not much of a way to know what we have in Haskins until he plays more and we see how (or if) he continues to develop. I don't see us making any big trades for a QB. That would be ludicrous.

Josh Rosen didn’t last long,

 

I’m by no means advocating a ludicrous trade. But...Rivera is here to win right now. No rebuild. QB is critical to that path, I personally wouldn’t discount a major shift in approach at that position. Likewise he could stick with Haskins.

 

Could get interesting with a market potentially a wash with  more than serviceable short to medium term QB options.

[RWJ]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Or trade a pick for Kyle Allen, if he’s retained in CAR, who is an ERFA. 

This is possible.  I wouldn't give up more than our 7th rounder #2 overall for him though.  He's familiar with Scott Turner's O and if Scott believes in him I can see them sending that pick over for him.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Josh Rosen didn’t last long,

 

I’m by no means advocating a ludicrous trade. But...Rivera is here to win right now. No rebuild. QB is critical to that path, I personally wouldn’t discount a major shift in approach at that position. Likewise he could stick with Haskins.

 

Could get interesting with a market potentially a wash with  more than serviceable short to medium term QB options.

 

Well, I think the Rosen situation was very unique. It's really rare that a high 1st round pick QB is moved on from so fast. Hell, even Ryan Leaf got 18 starts before SD cut their losses. Shuler got the same number as Rosen. Akili Smith got 17. But those guys also got at least 2 years with their teams, and they were way way worse than Rosen. Arizona drafted Rosen at 10 and he was there 1 year before they moved on. It was unique because they were in a position to pick #1 overall and they'd just hired a HC who was straight from the offensive coaching tree that the #1 overall QB had thrived in during college. It was risky, but I guess they figured it was worth it. 

 

And I seriously doubt Rivera is figuring they're going to the SB this season. He knows it's not a full rebuild, but it is still a very young team that's still trying to get the pieces in place. He's here to finish off and guide the rebuild. I could maybe understand it if we were at #1 and they really loved Burrow and thought he could come in and be an elite QB in the league. Or maybe if Tua never had his season ending injury and they weren't as worried about his injury history as some. But as it is now, there seems no reason to simply move on from Haskins. Bring in a vet in FA to push him and compete? Sure, as long as we're not paying a ton. But trade for one? Pass. We need all the picks we can get. 

[Burgold]

10 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Are you saying we should look for a veteran backup instead of, say, drafting a QB on Day 3?

Because of the Alex Smith situation (that's a crazy amount of dead cap) I would aim for the rookie backup. If Alex recovers enough to be the backup or starts over Haskins then you don't need a vet backup in either case.

[Koolblue13]

We've got the 2nd pick in the draft and an assload of cap money. We'll figure out how sure of Haskins they are pretty quickly.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

Because of the Alex Smith situation (that's a crazy amount of dead cap) I would aim for the rookie backup. If Alex recovers enough to be the backup or starts over Haskins then you don't need a vet backup in either case.

 

If a veteran (like Alex Smith) started 2020 over Haskins.  Then the team has to trade Haskins for a 3rd or 4th rounder or whatever they can get.

 

I think, best case scenario regarding Alex,  is he looks healthy-ish, so a team like Chicago trades a Day 3 pick for him.  We save over 5 million.

 

[NickyJ]

Not that PFF is the gospel, but fun to see Dwayne take 2nd place and Kyler Murray get snubbed.

 

 

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Not that PFF is the gospel, but fun to see Dwayne take 2nd place and Kyler Murray get snubbed.

 

 

This is the kind of thing that makes me dislike PFF. I watched Murray quite a bit. He had some really meh moments, but all in all he looked solid. The fact that he's not listed here is asinine. He was MUCH better than Haskins. He was better than Jones. And he was better than Minshew.

[skinny21]

Personally, I wouldn’t trade for a qb or sign a higher (or even moderately) priced qb.  Haskins, Smith plus a late round qb or cheaper backup type is how I’d roll.  
 

Rivera is serious about winning immediately though, IMO - he wants to turn the team around and there’s not better way to push his culture change than by winning.  Not having legitimate insurance for Dwayne would be poor planning toward that goal.  I think he’s also serious about having a qb competition, even if he expects (or hopes for) Haskins to win it.  

To those ends, and considering Smith’s availability is uncertain (and we should be cutting him next year), I wouldn’t be surprised if Rivera signs a relatively expensive qb or even trades for a Rosen type.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

53 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This is the kind of thing that makes me dislike PFF. I watched Murray quite a bit. He had some really meh moments, but all in all he looked solid. The fact that he's not listed here is asinine. He was MUCH better than Haskins. He was better than Jones. And he was better than Minshew.

The eye test for sure is more what you stated.  PFF has it's benefits but feel it's not as accurate with the QB position.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

If a veteran (like Alex Smith) started 2020 over Haskins.  Then the team has to trade Haskins for a 3rd or 4th rounder or whatever they can get.

 

I think, best case scenario regarding Alex,  is he looks healthy-ish, so a team like Chicago trades a Day 3 pick for him.  We save over 5 million.

 

 

Nobody is going to trade anything for him. The guy is coming up on 36 and nearly had to have his leg amputated after that injury. 

[veteranskinsfan]

15 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Are you saying we should look for a veteran backup instead of, say, drafting a QB on Day 3

I am saying Rivera wants to win right away if he can and Gibbs felt pressure when he was 0-5 his first season.  He did not want to throw a rookie into starting right away.  Yes, you could draft a QB on Day 3 that will not cost much but it is unlikely that QB would be the second coming of Patrick Mahomes.  Kansas City had Alex tutor Mahomes before he started.  Our hypothetical drafted QB might not be ready to start.  We already know from drafting a QB with only one year of college experience that the team record was below .500 in his first year.  Of course the team itself was bad too.  So Rivera will have to upgrade both the offense and defensive players while also figuring out what to do at quarterback.

He is going to earn his money for sure if he can pull it off and make the Skins more respectable again.  By winning a few games right away he also shows fans that the culture issues might be improving as well.

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

🤔

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/39563/redskins-desire-to-add-talent-around-dwayne-haskins-means-big-changes

 

ASHBURN, Va. -- From the time the Washington Redskins drafted quarterback Dwayne Haskins, they said the best way to help was this: Add more players around him. Even with a regime change, that quest won't end. When Ron Rivera met with owner Dan Snyder before taking the head-coaching job, a good chunk of his time was spent pitching his plan to develop Haskins.

It includes adding more help at the skill positions.