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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That’s not what I remember.  I remember them working on a deal where Cousins camp was around $18m/year and the skins were around 15, and weren’t going to budge.  

 

In the 2017 off-season, I think he was looking for a fully guaranteed deal.  But I don’t remember it after his first year starting. 

 

 

Kirk mentioned it in an interview he did earlier this year:

 

"This is why it's so important to have a good agent, as soon as 2015 season was over and it looked like I would be franchise tagged my agent said the only way you are not getting franchise tagged is if the Redskins agree to do a 3 year deal fully guaranteed. My agent started the conversation right away to let the Redskins know that was our vision all along and I don't think the Redskins agreed with that which is fine."

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1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

 The Snark was unnecessary. The point still remains that he has yet to lead us on an actual touchdown drive. We can make excuses for that till our asses turn blue but that is extremely concerning. The reality is, he is worse than we imagined.

 

I am not worried about him not leading the team to a TD yet. There are different ways to help your team - some of that is simply by not being a negative. Alex showed that.

 

I am concerned with him getting better each time he goes out. He has shown small but continuous progress. Is it enough? Time will tell - and I say that not as cliche but in reality. He needs time to either figure it out or fail. Can he fix his footwork and mechanics? Maybe. Maybe not. 

 

My only point from the beginning was and still is though that all I care about is what he does on the field unless he breaks the law or gets in trouble in a way that costs him time or the team in some other way. The selfie, the media responses, the "stories" about his work ethic and general attitude make no difference to me, nor would it to others if he were playing well. 

 

I get it. Even with the improvement he is just playing slightly above suck. But he is showing signs of improvement. As long as he does that, I say let him have at it. The best case scenario is that he makes and turns into a franchise QB. And just to be clear before it comes up - I did NOT want the team to draft him. But draft him they did. So let him play and give him all the time he needs this year to either figure it out and show definitively he cannot. I know many have decided he has already done that. But I do not. 

 

The best part of this is that many of those stating he is an absolute bust are also the ones complaining the team never develops anyone. Not saying you as I have not see you make any such statements. 

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17 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

Kirk mentioned it in an interview he did earlier this year:

 

"This is why it's so important to have a good agent, as soon as 2015 season was over and it looked like I would be franchise tagged my agent said the only way you are not getting franchise tagged is if the Redskins agree to do a 3 year deal fully guaranteed. My agent started the conversation right away to let the Redskins know that was our vision all along and I don't think the Redskins agreed with that which is fine."

I missed that.  

 

Ok.  well, that makes it even worse because they back-to-back franchise tagged him for 2 of the three years, and probably paid him more each year than the tag.  

 

Since they had no other options they should have done a 3 year deal and then addressed the QB situation down the road with a longer contract extension or draft somebody else.

 

The tag was just the dumbest strategy ever.  And I will die on that hill.

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13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I missed that.  

 

Ok.  well, that makes it even worse because they back-to-back franchise tagged him for 2 of the three years, and probably paid him more each year than the tag.  

 

Since they had no other options they should have done a 3 year deal and then addressed the QB situation down the road with a longer contract extension or draft somebody else.

 

The tag was just the dumbest strategy ever.  And I will die on that hill.

 

You won't die alone lol... I and countless others felt doing the franchise tags was a big mistake. I reached that conclusion in retrospect after we let the guy walk instead of trading him...I felt that alone should have had Bruce on an extremely hot seat if not let go entirely. Finding out that he was told by Cousins' agent that they will only sign a 3-yr fully guaranteed deal just underscores how stupid it was not to trade him. The flip side is that the narrative at the time that Kirk was "insulted" by our offer and that's why he didn't counter should be retired--he and his agent weren't gonna listen to anything that didn't involve a short-term fully guaranteed contract. It had nothing to do with being insulted.

 
 
 
 
33 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I am not worried about him not leading the team to a TD yet.

 

 

Who hasn't lead the team to a TD yet?

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44 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You won't die alone lol... I and countless others felt doing the franchise tags was a big mistake. I reached that conclusion in retrospect after we let the guy walk instead of trading him...I felt that alone should have had Bruce on an extremely hot seat if not let go entirely. Finding out that he was told by Cousins' agent that they will only sign a 3-yr fully guaranteed deal just underscores how stupid it was not to trade him. The flip side is that the narrative at the time that Kirk was "insulted" by our offer and that's why he didn't counter should be retired--he and his agent weren't gonna listen to anything that didn't involve a short-term fully guaranteed contract. It had nothing to do with being insulted.

 

 

Who hasn't lead the team to a TD yet?

 

I was responding to someone else making the comment in reference to a game winning TD drive. m may want to have read the comments that led up to it. Would have provided the context.

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Just a few random points.  Slowly rewatching the Lions game, I think Haskins is good at looking the safety away and avoiding starring at his targeted receiver with some exceptions.  I don't think he's good at selling play action.   I know its a polarizing statement to say but both RG3 and Kirk were IMO really good at selling the run in play action in terms of their body language, Haskins IMO isn't that good at it.  But he's good at misdirection in terms of shuffling one way to get defenders to follow and they repositioning himself back in the other direction to run a boot.  He reminds of Prescott some on that front though Prescott seems to shift faster.

 

The interesting thing to me is Geron Christian doesn't look that bad.  He doesn't lock down the pass rusher in the same way Trent does or push them around but he mirrors pretty well and if the pass rusher gets by him, he doesn't give up and tries to catch up (Moses sometimes does at times give up once the rusher slips by him when I study him).  Haskins had his share of really clean pockets in the game.  It looked to me that he had time to throw.  Granted Christian wasn't playing against a killer pass rusher.  But I'd be interested to see him play some against Carolina which does have a good pass rush.

 

Clip 1 had Haskins looking right.  Clip 2 a total shift left.  He ended up missing McLaurin who was wide open but it was a well designed play and he did a nice job with his eyes albeit the throw wasn't hot.  

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-11-29 at 7.52.34 PM.png

haskins2.png

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57 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I was responding to someone else making the comment in reference to a game winning TD drive.

Not a game winning TD drive.... ANY touchdown drive. Hell, ANY meaningful drive. Here are all of our scores with Haskins in.

 

vs Giants: 3 points after an INT where we started at the Giants 38

 

vs Vikings: 3 points on a drive where Adrian Peterson took a 3 yard pass 21 yards (should have been tackled right away but defender went for the ball only & not the tackle) + a 25 yard run.

 

vs Bills: 9 points. First field goal drive was 5 runs to start and get us into scoring range. Then Haskins threw a screen and got sacked on the last two plays. Next FG came on a drive where Haskins threw two passes. One was incomplete & the other was a screen that AP took around 20 yards. Last one was off a 14 yard drive.


vs Jets: For the first 3 quarters we had 3 points which came off a negative ten yard drive after and INT. In the 4th quarter after we're down 34-3 to that ****ty, ****ty team we finally score a garbage time TD on a 45 yard pass that was thrown 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. We get another TD with less than a minute left, still down by 4 scores, after Haskins lobs a pass right into the hands of a Jets defender that McLaurin rips away.

 

vs Lions: Our one TD was on a kickoff return. One FG came after an INT, another after a fumble. Two of them were actual drives... two field goal drives.

 

 

He's not good. He actually sucks.

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23 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

The idea that 1, 2, or 3 games will tell you all you need to know about a player's career is laughable, though. Who cares how well an undrafted QB did in one game...Tebow beat the Steelers in one playoff game. Todd Collins did great in 3 1/2 games in 2007. RG3 did fantastic in 7 games in 2012. Our analysis of this type of stuff needs to be better, deeper, and more intelligent than that sort of comparison.

 

There are two posts analyzing Haskins on this page...one of them fits the part in bold above to a "T" 👏👏..

 

The other one...not so much lol..

 

*And for the record, holy ****, is Haskins terrible at selling play action lol...

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Some reason I can't quote @Califan007  I think a few people have said similar things about quoting of late?  Sometimes we can quote people and sometimes it doesn't allow us to do it.  Weird.

 

You got a an obvious run formation.  Perfect down to do it which is first down.  The O line blocking like it's an outside zone run. Haskins under center.  All well designed.  Yet the free safety doesn't move.  Ditto the MLBs for the most part.  They aren't buying it. 

 

I think Haskins needs to at least extend the ball to fake the look a bit more. He does extend the ball soon after he takes the snap (I don't have that clip here) but then tucks it back in as Peterson gets closer.  So he sort of gives away that its a fake.   

 

Play action should be a young Qb's friend.  This isn't the only example of this but yeah just watching him carry that out, my eyes weren't buying it, so doesn't surprise me defenses aren't either. 

 

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The run game is hardly a threat, and the playaction will not be a threat until the TE position is fixed. Haskins could sell it better for sure. But If the result of the play is a 3 yard run or 4 yard button curl by sprinkle at best, i would stay home on defense every down. 
 

Ideally I would like to see this franchise come out with a plan on offense next year and build a roster around that philosophy. Are we a ball control team? West coast? Run and gun? 4-wide blitzkrieg? Air Raid? RPO? Last year it seemed we were going to be a ball control team. It was boring, but it’s effective. Gruden’s offense this year was nothing like last year. I’m not entirely sure Haskins is the best fit for that offense, and that may be a good thing as it only works if you have an elite defense. He takes chances, and that’s something I like to see in a young qb. I think an air raid style would best suit his skill set. 

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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Some reason I can't quote @Califan007  I think a few people have said similar things about quoting of late?  Sometimes we can quote people and sometimes it doesn't allow us to do it.  Weird.

 

You got a an obvious run formation.  Perfect down to do it which is first down.  The O line blocking like it's an outside zone run. Haskins under center.  All well designed.  Yet the free safety doesn't move.  Ditto the MLBs for the most part.  They aren't buying it. 

 

I think Haskins needs to at least extend the ball to fake the look a bit more. He does extend the ball soon after he takes the snap (I don't have that clip here) but then tucks it back in as Peterson gets closer.  So he sort of gives away that its a fake.   

 

Play action should be a young Qb's friend.  This isn't the only example of this but yeah just watching him carry that out, my eyes weren't buying it, so doesn't surprise me defenses aren't either.

 

He almost seems scared to turn his back to the defense...a number of times I found myself laughing and saying "Why even bother" out loud lol. Those are the times he doesn't even come close to selling it.

 

I know you and others here have studied his OSU production...was he this mediocre at selling play action in college? Did they even do much play action?

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3 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

The run game is hardly a threat, and the playaction will not be a threat until the TE position is fixed. Haskins could sell it better for sure. But If the result of the play is a 3 yard run or 4 yard button curl by sprinkle at best, i would stay home on defense every down. 

 

The run game has been better of late save last week.  Peterson-Guice.   But is the passing game the threat that defenses are worried about?  Analytic types suggest based on their studies selling play action is much important than the success of the run game.

 

Cooley has talked about it, too. The ability to sell it is key.  Even if the FS and or SS aren't spooked let's say by Peterson's ability to run the ball its still their job to diagnose a run when they see it and are supposed to react accordingly.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

 

 

As we saw when looking at play-action yards per play, there's no relationship here. The difference in the effectiveness of a team's passing game using play-action relative to without play-action is unrelated to the frequency or effectiveness of the team's rushing.

The most interesting part of these figures is the vertical placement of the dots. I've drawn a horizontal line at zero on each figure, and the vast majority of points lying above the line means that the vast majority of teams have more yards per play on play-action dropbacks than on non-play-action dropbacks. This isn't news -- Football Outsiders has documented play-action's efficiency for years -- but gives a visual for how rare it is for teams to fall below the zero line. And once again, there's no relationship between a team's rushing frequency or effectiveness and their likelihood of falling below the line.

 

...Conclusion

We have an ever-growing body of evidence that teams don't need to run often -- or run well -- to set up play-action. Play-action works for teams that run frequently, infrequently, well, or poorly. For the vast majority of teams, it just works. From 2011 to 2017, 196 of 224 team-seasons had higher yards per play on play-action dropbacks than on non-play-action dropbacks. This includes teams like the 2017 Lions (9.4 yards per play-action play, No. 30 in rushing DVOA) and 2015 Jaguars (1.7 more yards per play on play-action dropbacks despite being No. 28 in rushing DVOA and only running 31 percent of the time).

For every team observed to have a strong play-action game and strong rushing attack, I can find an example of an effective play-action team that has a weak rushing attack. For every play where a successful play-action pass followed a series of runs, I can find a play where play-action succeeded despite not recently running. There just doesn't seem to be anything there.

Finally, there's no evidence of teams using play-action a lot seeing any less benefit to play-action. Coaches treat play-action as a fragile toy that can only be brought out under certain conditions -- only after running, and only if it hasn't already been used it too much -- but it's more like the tennis racket I've had since high school: always ready, and always effective.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/10/23/nfl-is-midst-play-action-boom-kirk-cousins-is-reaping-benefits/

“The main thing was, even if you’re not running the ball effectively, still use play-action,” Cousins said during a training camp interview this summer. “It’s still going to slow the pass rush down, make linebackers feel unsettled as to whether to get in a zone drop or go upfield and fit their gap. Usually the routes are designed for bigger plays, and so you’re able to get bigger plays. It basically said, never get away from it. The numbers would say just keep going back to the well.”

Cousins sounded like an acolyte of the burgeoning analytics community, which has debunked myths associated with play-action passes. In 2018, Ben Baldwin of Football Outsiders wrote a convincing article arguing that setting up play-action passes using running plays is unnecessary. Sharp said player-tracking data shows linebackers pause or creep toward the line on play-fakes regardless of how many play-action passes an offense has used or what running back is in the backfield. (In Minnesota’s case, Dalvin Cook leads the NFL in rushing through seven weeks.)

“Whether it’s play-action attempt 10, 12, 17 in a game, you’re still luring in those defenders and creating the little extra edges in that passing attack based upon spacing,” Sharp said. “And that’s the whole purpose of a play fake. You just need to keep [a defender] on his heels for a split-second. The defense is hard-wired mentally to react to play-action.”

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3 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

The run game is hardly a threat, and the playaction will not be a threat until the TE position is fixed. Haskins could sell it better for sure. But If the result of the play is a 3 yard run or 4 yard button curl by sprinkle at best, i would stay home on defense every down.

 

The run game doesn't have to be a threat. That slight moment of hesitancy that play-action causes isn't due to defenses thinking the RB might get 4.5 yards instead of 3.2 yards. It's all reaction...so as long as there is a legit threat to run at any time and the QB sells it well, that's all you need.

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@Califan007

 

I don't recall noticing a lot of play action with Haskins or if there was I missed it when I studied him.  I'll go back and watch some of it.   I think what made RG3 so dangerous in 2012 was his ball handling skills.  In the read option you sort of have a variation of play action with the run fakes.   Watching him he'd fool me plenty of times.  Kirk was not on the same level on that front but he was also very good at it.    Haskins really doesn't sell it well.   I figure that is something though which can be taught, will see.  He could use it because play action is a QB's best friend at times especially a young one. 

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@Skinsinparadise  (this is better than the ****ed-up quotes lol) -

 

Yeah, RG3 was damn Houdini with the football when selling it on read-option plays...and I agree with that quote from Cousins: “The main thing was, even if you’re not running the ball effectively, still use play-action,” Cousins said during a training camp interview this summer. “It’s still going to slow the pass rush down, make linebackers feel unsettled as to whether to get in a zone drop or go upfield and fit their gap." There was also some study or article a while back that made the argument that the effectiveness of the run game isn't necessary for play-action to be successful...and this footballoutsiders' article is saying "Putting this all together, I cannot find any support for the success of play-action passing being related in any way to a team's rushing statistics, whether measured by frequency or effectiveness."

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing

 

 

Haskins has a laundry list of things he needs to improve to start playing better...and God help me if I know why, but I have a high level of confidence that he will indeed improve on damn near all of it.

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18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just a few random points.  Slowly rewatching the Lions game, I think Haskins is good at looking the safety away and avoiding starring at his targeted receiver with some exceptions.  I don't think he's good at selling play action.   I know its a polarizing statement to say but both RG3 and Kirk were IMO really good at selling the run in play action in terms of their body language, Haskins IMO isn't that good at it.  But he's good at misdirection in terms of shuffling one way to get defenders to follow and they repositioning himself back in the other direction to run a boot.  He reminds of Prescott some on that front though Prescott seems to shift faster.

 

The interesting thing to me is Geron Christian doesn't look that bad.  He doesn't lock down the pass rusher in the same way Trent does or push them around but he mirrors pretty well and if the pass rusher gets by him, he doesn't give up and tries to catch up (Moses sometimes does at times give up once the rusher slips by him when I study him).  Haskins had his share of really clean pockets in the game.  It looked to me that he had time to throw.  Granted Christian wasn't playing against a killer pass rusher.  But I'd be interested to see him play some against Carolina which does have a good pass rush.

 

Clip 1 had Haskins looking right.  Clip 2 a total shift left.  He ended up missing McLaurin who was wide open but it was a well designed play and he did a nice job with his eyes albeit the throw wasn't hot.  

 

 

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haskins2.png

Is ES starting this again ? Its like the Zorn Campbell Era all over again 🤢🤮

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I would argue that in order to run a successful playaction, you need good two-way TEs that can block and roll out. If you can’t trust the TE to block the backside on a roll out, you can’t run a playaction. We have one healthy TE on the roster, and he is barely a Logan Paulsen. 

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42 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

@Skinsinparadise 

 

Haskins has a laundry list of things he needs to improve to start playing better...and God help me if I know why, but I have a high level of confidence that he will indeed improve on damn near all of it.

 

I hope you are right.    As for college compared to now, there is one thing that he's better at that strikes me and that is pocket movement.  For a big dude he's actually fairly agile and can move.  I saw that in camp and talked about it, then.  Sheehan said that he heard that Haskins shed some weight and body fat from college and maybe that's why.

 

I don't love all the narratives I am hearing about the dude's intangibles but I do think he's a competitive guy so hopefully the ups and downs of the season will spur him to taking his game up another level.  For me I want to see him improve his accuracy.  It was shaky in the practices I watched and it looks equally shaky so far in the season.  If I see him hit like 60-65% of his passes in a game soon, I'd feel good. 

 

I don't mind the bravado-confidence stuff.  It's not that I disagree that he would look like a fool if his play doesn't ultimately end up meeting that demeanor.  But I think it helps to have a major belief in yourself and the act of thinking you are great might ultimately help to play great.  I'd much rather have that than a dude who is fragile mentality.  

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I hope you are right.    As for college compared to now, there is one thing that he's better at that strikes me and that is pocket movement.  For a big dude he's actually fairly agile and can move.  I saw that in camp and talked about it, then.  Sheehan said that he heard that Haskins shed some weight and body fat from college and maybe that's why.

 

I don't love all the narratives I am hearing about the dude's intangibles but I do think he's a competitive guy so hopefully the ups and downs of the season will spur him to taking his game up another level.  For me I want to see him improve his accuracy.  It was shaky in the practices I watched and it looks equally shaky so far in the season.  If I see him hit like 60-65% of his passes in a game soon, I'd feel good. 

 

I don't mind the bravado-confidence stuff.  It's not that I disagree that he would look like a fool if his play doesn't ultimately end up meeting that demeanor.  But I think it helps to have a major belief in yourself and think you are great and that ultimately helps to play great.  I'd much rather have that than a dude who is fragile mentality.  

 

Improved mechanics and footwork will hopefully lead to better accuracy, and those are both things that can improve over time with dedication and repetition. Keep the elbow up higher, improve the foundation, stop relying on arm strength so much, stop ****ing jumping in the air while throwing lol...

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His ability and willingness to manipulate the pocket and extend plays has quickly risen to one of the most important attributes a QB must have to compete for me.
 

Good to know he appears to have this ability and can do going left and right. Obviously, other factors exist, but I’d argue this is as important as any to reach elite status in today’s NFL/future. 

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The best playaction teams have multiple viable TE’s. Minnesota, Baltimore, SF, Dallas, Philadelphia all have multiple two-way TE’s. Philadelphia and Dallas have a philosophy problem that comes from the coaches decision to abandon the run. New England lost the best two way TE in the game and the running game and playaction has largely been scrapped. 
 

If you want to be a running/ball control/playaction team, you need to build around the lines and tight end position. I don’t think we have the pieces or capital to build something like this within a year.
 

We do have a qb that can throw it anywhere on the field without caution, and has the ability to look off the safety. So I would lean more towards getting more speed on the field at the wr position, and training him to get the ball out much faster. This will help him get confidence in his throws much like making a few easy shots will help before launching a bunch of 3’s in basketball. Haskins threw a ton of screens and short Underneath routes to speedy wrs at OSU, and let them do the work. Move sims to the slot (and Quinn to the bench), draft another quick wr this year, and trade for a TE ( OJ Howard). I see this as a potent offense around Haskins with some more reps and work on the mechanics in the offseason. 

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32 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Improved mechanics and footwork will hopefully lead to better accuracy, and those are both things that can improve over time with dedication and repetition. Keep the elbow up higher, improve the foundation, stop relying on arm strength so much, stop ****ing jumping in the air while throwing lol...

 

13 minutes ago, wit33 said:

His ability and willingness to manipulate the pocket and extend plays has quickly risen to one of the most important attributes a QB must have to compete for me.
 

Good to know he appears to have this ability and can do going left and right. Obviously, other factors exist, but I’d argue this is as important as any to reach elite status in today’s NFL/future. 

 

I like his pocket movement.  For me there are three things that I'd like fix that doesn't seem improved from what I've seen in camp.

 

A.  Connecting the short out routes in the flat.  And if he takes it up a notch further hit the receivers in stride to set up YAc.  I hate to say it but that's what impressed the most about Daniel Jones in the pros.  He hits these 4-5 yard hitches with receivers catching the balls in stride and it turns to 10-15 yard type plays.

 

B.  Stop under throwing the ball when it comes to out routes and over throwing the ball as to intermediate type throws in the middle/in between the numbers.

 

C.  Arc on the deep ball.  Not that we have a big sample of it but am referring to camp and college. 

 

I thought his deep ball in college was hit and miss, often under threw it and didn't have much arc to it.  The lack of arc on the deep ball reminds me of Jason Campbell's deep ball otherwise there is nothing about him that reminds me of Jason.  The arc point I find interesting because Joe Theismann opined this week that Dwayne needs to put more arc on the ball period.

 

As for Haskins working his way though it?  I really don't know.  Maybe.  But I won't really land on an opinion until the end of the season. I think the dude deserves to work through the kinks throughout the season.  It's not that am putting pressure for him in my own mind to achieve anything great this season.  I just want to see one game (am gagging as I say this 😀) where Dwayne looks as good as Daniel Jones' better games.  

 

I was a big critic of Jones before the draft.  And don't get me wrong am far from blown away by his play now.  But he's shown more flashes than I expected.  Jones played distinctly better than Haskins did against both the Jets and Lions. And that's OK.  But I'd like to see one game where Dwayne plays well -- 60-65% completion rate, 2 plus TDs, etc.  It's not that I don't think he can do it but I will relax more if I see it happen. 

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5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I like his pocket movement.  For me there are three things that I'd like fix that doesn't seem improved from what I've seen in camp.

 

I’m certainly encouraged by it and believe it helps incredibly overall, but especially for a younger player learning on the go. Allows for him to make positives plays while not being great with pre or post snap reads during a course of a game. 
 

I also believe he’s a guy playing with the weight of the world on his shoulders and if he can string together some clean games we may see some improvement and development in all areas. 
 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A.  Connecting the short out routes in the flat.  And if he takes it up a notch further hit the receivers in stride to set up YAc.  I hate to say it but that's what impressed the most about Daniel Jones in the pros.  He hits these 4-5 yard hitches with receivers catching the balls in stride and it turns to 10-15 yard type plays.
 

 

Still working on my fee for his game (as I know you’re as well), but it does appear there’s some accuracy issues coupled with being uncomfortable with this throw.
 

Kind of relates to what I said before, but it appears to me he’s a guy playing with a lot of voices in his head, but is doing his best to be his own man and remain true to himself. Like Terry mentioned, we haven’t seen him in the zone yet. 

 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for Haskins working his way though it?  I really don't know.  Maybe.  But I won't really land on an opinion until the end of the season. I think the dude deserves to work through the kinks throughout the season.  It's not that am putting pressure for him in my own mind to achieve anything great this season.  I just want to see one game (am gagging as I say this 😀) where Dwayne looks as good as Daniel Jones' better games.  

 

I’m committed through next season, but obviously the more positive the better lol

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was a big critic of Jones before the draft.  And don't get me wrong am far from blown away by his play now.  But he's shown more flashes than I expected.  Jones played distinctly better than Haskins did against both the Jets and Lions. And that's OK.  But I'd like to see one game where Dwayne plays well -- 60-65% completion rate, 2 plus TDs, etc.  It's not that I don't think he can do it but I will relax more if I see it happen. 


Would definitely be great for him individually to have that breakout statistical performance and for us fans as well. Can’t say if it’s going to happen or not lol. You’d think it’ll come at some point this season though. 
 

Not on the comparison train, but know your in-laws are Giant fans, so it’s hard not to lol. 

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18 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

I’m committed through next season, but obviously the more positive the better lol

 

 

I'd give him another season too but my point on that front is just for me to start formulating an opinion but with an open mind moving forward.  I don't have a macro opinion, yet.  I am still digesting and trying not to cherry pick positive or negative stuff. 

 

18 minutes ago, wit33 said:


Would definitely be great for him individually to have that breakout statistical performance and for us fans as well. Can’t say if it’s going to happen or not lol. You’d think it’ll come at some point this season though. 
 

Not on the comparison train, but know your in-laws are Giant fans, so it’s hard not to lol. 

 

 

Yeah the Daniel Jones stuff pains me to say in part for that reason.  😀   I've watched all of his games.  He's had two 4-0 TD INT games.   Three 300 plus games.  3 big time QB rated games.  62.5% completion rate for the season  He's certainly showed more flashes than Haskins and its not even close.  Having said that I thought Jones would be ahead of Haskins so am not expecting him to keep pace but I'd like to see one game where he plays well on the aggregate. 

 

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A few points from the discussion above:

 

1. Selling play action has less to do with the success of rhe run game and more to do with the ENTIRE TEAM selling the run.  That includes the OL, TE, RB and QB for the most part.  DL and LBs are going to react to the OL first before the QB has actually done anything.  

 

2. What I am now hoping for is a coach to come in here and drill the ever loving hell out of Haskins mechanics.  So much of what I see wrong with Haskins looks like it’s fixable, and so much of what’s wrong with the offense can be fixed by upgrading the coaching. There are absolutely personnel issues to work out as well.  My hope is a new GM/Coach combo decides on a direction and they fill in the roster to whatever it is they want to try and do, and the personnel fits the scheme. And the scheme isn’t based in a 1948 version of football. 

 

3. Some of the best threads we have had were the ones where folks analyzed specific plays.  I hope we get back to more of that.  

 

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