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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I do not think it was a situation where the Redskins "failed to develop" all the QBs they drafted. Shuler, Cambell, Ramsey etc just couldn't play, it happens way more often than the not, and they would have failed regardless of which team drafted them.   That's why the Cousins thing will continue to haunt this team. They finally drafted and developed a top 10 QB and then became the only team in league history to simply allow him to walk for nothing. 

Also Trent Green, for the sake of historical accuracy.

 

Dont you think that part of what allowed the doofus to go full retard on Kirk Cousins was a lack of fan patience with Kirk -- resulting in Kirk perhaps being undervalued because some refused to see him as a franchise QB until he could win us some playoff games.?

 

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2 hours ago, Koala said:

I knew this post was coming...Its perhaps overly simplistic to lay the blame here on the fans, of course.  Perhaps the better way of putting it is -- the atmosphere in Washington is not conducive to developing a QB, and part of that atmosphere is created by the fans.  Of course, in the end, it is the job of the front office to manage fan expectations and produce a healthier and more patient atmosphere.

 

But there is something about Washington that is anathema for a young QB.  I just dont think its a coincidence or simply bad luck that we've been looking for a franchise QB since Sunny freaking Jurgensen, and have had success just once with Joe Theisman.

 

The saying goes something like the hottest seat in Washington is number one the QB of the Redskins, and number two is the President of the U.S.

 

I dont know how long youve been a fan.  But believe it or not, our failure to develop a QB pre-dates Snyder.  Its almost one of the defining features of this franchise, and a lot of Gibbs success lay in fact that he proved you didnt really need a franchise QB to be successful.  The fact he won 3 SBs with three different QBs was not a coincedence -- it may have been the only way to pull off success in Washington.  This is something Gibbs understood early, evidenced by when he practically tripped over himself to trade away a young Jay Schroeder before he got stuck trying to develop a young QB in Washington.

 

Anyhow, my bottom line is this.  We know the FO is composed of a bunch of clowns.  Lets not, as fans, further encourage their tendencies towards impatience and rash decision making by giving up on our young QB before he has had a fair chance to prove or disprove himself.  For example, Like this selfie-gate thing really should be over by now  Thats all Im saying.

I’ve followed the Redskins since the George Allen era. It is pretty amazing to think that they have not had one QB they drafted develop into a franchise QB that lead them for 10 years or so.  Even Theisman came from the CFL.

 

But fans are fans and we have these outlets nowadays to voice our opinions.  Sadly, this team has become such a joke it invites these kinds of debates. No use talking about the actual game.

 

Anyway, we all have something to be thankful for on Thanksgiving - no Redskins football today. ;)

 

Happy Thanksgiving.

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40 minutes ago, Koala said:

Also Trent Green, for the sake of historical accuracy.

 

Dont you think that part of what allowed the doofus to go full retard on Kirk Cousins was a lack of fan patience with Kirk -- resulting in Kirk perhaps being undervalued because some refused to see him as a franchise QB until he could win us some playoff games.?

 

The Skins wanted to retain Trent Green but didn’t have an owner for that FA period and he left for the Rams. Casserly trades for Brad Johnson when he could.  They wanted to keep Green, but the ghost of Jack Kent Cooke screwed them in that one. 

 

I don’t think fan appreciation has anything to do with the Cousins negotiations. The internal evaluation of him is that he was the “best of the good” and not worth a top 5 contract. And they might not have been wrong about that, we’ll see.  

 

The problem is that instead of committing to 4 years of Cousins in the 2016 off-season for less than the franchise tag value, they couldn’t come to an agreement and tagged him.  Which set his asking price at the minimum of the franchise tag, which by definition is too 5 money. THAT was the stupid move. Everything after that was just symptoms of the same initial dumbass decision.  

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I think people forget how unconvincing Kirk was a lot of the time, the first franchise tag had merit in that we really didn't know what we had with him, another season was to see if he was worth paying the big bucks you have to when signing any QB, a 1 year rental to see what we had.

 

Obviously at the end of that season it all imploded with GMSM; Cousins was alienated & had all the leverage to max his pay, then get out. I have more of an issue with the 2nd franchise tag but with all the issues behind the scenes I guess they FO didn't want to have fill that hole

 

 

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So, one thing I wonder about is how much nerves/psychology/confidence plays into accuracy. It's just hard for me to completely dismiss that college 70% completion rate. That indicates that Haskins was not throwing wild pitches all over the place while at Ohio. 70 out of 100 times, he hit. Last week, he was missing dump offs. So, there's something beyond mechanics going on.

 

Is he pressing too hard? Is he throwing scared? Is he trying to be too perfect?

 

I think there's something going on beyond footwork and what we usually call accuracy. Part of me wants to say it's because he just hasn't had enough reps with these receivers, but that doesn't jibe with how he misses McClauren. He should have an excellent feel for Terry's speed and moves. So, that brings me back to nerves. What if he's shook? What if his coaches constantly telling  him he's not ready and then following it up by not giving him reps undermined him in a real way? How does he get his mojo back? 

 

That's why things like, "I'm a closer." may actually be a good sign. Say it til you believe it. Find the good and build off that. If it's his head that's getting in the way of his passing then he needs a find a way to chill, relax, and just let fly... to not think through the pass.

 

Then again, this post may be mumbo jumbo psuedo psychology. Only @Jumbo would know for sure ;)

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7 minutes ago, Burgold said:

So, one thing I wonder about is how much nerves/psychology/confidence plays into accuracy. It's just hard for me to completely dismiss that college 70% completion rate. That indicates that Haskins was not throwing wild pitches all over the place while at Ohio. 70 out of 100 times, he hit. Last week, he was missing dump offs. So, there's something beyond mechanics going on.

 

 

 

 

That figure is very deceiving.  As I posted I went back and watched most of the OSU games. He threw a ton of short passes, many that went for big yards via YAC. When he needed to throw it downfield he was all over the place. What we saw on Sunday was pretty typical of his accuracy on passes downfield. To expect this to change dramatically is unrealistic iMO. 

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1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

 

That figure is very deceiving.  As I posted I went back and watched most of the OSU games. He threw a ton of short passes, many that went for big yards via YAC. When he needed to throw it downfield he was all over the place. What we saw on Sunday was pretty typical of his accuracy on passes downfield. To expect this to change dramatically is unrealistic iMO. 

Yeah, but he's missing a whole bunch of short passes right now, too. If he was a Chad Pennington who excelled in the short game, was okay in the intermediate and had no long ball that would be one thing, but his accuracy is off short, medium, and long right now.


He hit 70% of his passes. He must have been good at something.

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1 hour ago, Burgold said:

So, one thing I wonder about is how much nerves/psychology/confidence plays into accuracy. It's just hard for me to completely dismiss that college 70% completion rate. That indicates that Haskins was not throwing wild pitches all over the place while at Ohio. 70 out of 100 times, he hit. Last week, he was missing dump offs. So, there's something beyond mechanics going on.

 

Is he pressing too hard? Is he throwing scared? Is he trying to be too perfect?

 

I think there's something going on beyond footwork and what we usually call accuracy. Part of me wants to say it's because he just hasn't had enough reps with these receivers, but that doesn't jibe with how he misses McClauren. He should have an excellent feel for Terry's speed and moves. So, that brings me back to nerves. What if he's shook? What if his coaches constantly telling  him he's not ready and then following it up by not giving him reps undermined him in a real way? How does he get his mojo back? 

 

That's why things like, "I'm a closer." may actually be a good sign. Say it til you believe it. Find the good and build off that. If it's his head that's getting in the way of his passing then he needs a find a way to chill, relax, and just let fly... to not think through the pass.

 

Then again, this post may be mumbo jumbo psuedo psychology. Only @Jumbo would know for sure ;)

 

I don't think that he's playing scared because he seems very confident in his own abilities, almost to a point of arrogance (not necessarily a bad thing).

 

I believe it could be that he's having to think more, mainly due to defenses being better and more complex than he faced in college, but also that he's concentrating more on his mechanics, which do seem to be slowly improving.

 

Something else I noticed was that every snap in his highlight video was from shotgun, maybe transitioning to being under-center more is also a factor?

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5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Granted it’s early and can change in a hurry, but David Blough in six throws has tied “The Closer” in touchdown passes on the season, tied Haskins career high in passing touchdowns

I refuse to believe that Haskins was serious when he said that. Had to be joking.

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Woulda coulda shoulda. Step up or get out the way. He is a bust until that point. I am rooting for him but refuse to baby him. Don’t care if he is young or inexperienced. Make the play. That’s it. 

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5 hours ago, dyst said:

Woulda coulda shoulda. Step up or get out the way. He is a bust until that point. I am rooting for him but refuse to baby him. Don’t care if he is young or inexperienced. Make the play. That’s it. 

 

The guy has had, what? Only three starts? And he's already a bust?

 

Some ****ing people. smdh :rolleyes:

 

 

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On 11/25/2019 at 10:10 AM, SkinFanInMinn said:

Wow, strawman armageddon sighted.  I've seen nobody complaining about him being pumped up, enthused, having fun with the fans, etc. AFTER the game.  You're trying to make an equivalence between a valid concern of doing it before the game was over and what you "suspected" people would do.

 

You have no clue what a strawman argument is, do you lol...nor do you have any clue what the point was behind my post. That much is obvious. Additionally, you don't have any idea at all why I mentioned what I "suspected" people to say. You need to think harder before hitting "Submit Reply".

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22 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The Skins wanted to retain Trent Green but didn’t have an owner for that FA period and he left for the Rams. Casserly trades for Brad Johnson when he could.  They wanted to keep Green, but the ghost of Jack Kent Cooke screwed them in that one. 

 

I don’t think fan appreciation has anything to do with the Cousins negotiations. The internal evaluation of him is that he was the “best of the good” and not worth a top 5 contract. And they might not have been wrong about that, we’ll see.  

 

The problem is that instead of committing to 4 years of Cousins in the 2016 off-season for less than the franchise tag value, they couldn’t come to an agreement and tagged him.  Which set his asking price at the minimum of the franchise tag, which by definition is too 5 money. THAT was the stupid move. Everything after that was just symptoms of the same initial dumbass decision.  

 

What stopped the Skins from signing Cousins in the 2016 offseason was that Cousins wanted a fully-guaranteed 3-yr contract and was not gonna budge. Skins weren't gonna go for a fully guaranteed contract that was going to be negotiated again 3 years down the road.

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8 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

The guy has had, what? Only three starts? And he's already a bust?

 

Some ****ing people. smdh :rolleyes:

 

 

There's plenty to be concerned about when a high first round draft choice goes 13/29 for 156 yds with 0 TD and 1 int  while a guy like Blough, an undrafted rookie third stringer thrown into his first regular season NFL debut on a short week manages to go 22/38 for 280 yds with 2 TD and 1 int , oh and this against the NFL's 5th ranked Defense

 

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3 minutes ago, ananoman said:

There's plenty to be concerned about when a high first round draft choice goes 13/29 for 156 yds with 0 TD and 1 int  while a guy like Blough, an undrafted rookie third stringer thrown into his first regular season NFL debut on a short week manages to go 22/38 for 280 yds with 2 TD and 1 int 

 

 

The idea that 1, 2, or 3 games will tell you all you need to know about a player's career is laughable, though. Who cares how well an undrafted QB did in one game...Tebow beat the Steelers in one playoff game. Todd Collins did great in 3 1/2 games in 2007. RG3 did fantastic in 7 games in 2012. Our analysis of this type of stuff needs to be better, deeper, and more intelligent than that sort of comparison.

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8 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

The guy has had, what? Only three starts? And he's already a bust?

 

Some ****ing people. smdh :rolleyes:

 

 

You think he is playing to the standards a #15 pick should? You have some low standards and its no wonder this team is where it is. 
 

As for Haskins, “so far”, yes his ass is a bust. If he plays better, he won’t be. It’s simple really. Play better.

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13 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

The idea that 1, 2, or 3 games will tell you all you need to know about a player's career is laughable, though. Who cares how well an undrafted QB did in one game...Tebow beat the Steelers in one playoff game. Todd Collins did great in 3 1/2 games in 2007. RG3 did fantastic in 7 games in 2012. Our analysis of this type of stuff needs to be better, deeper, and more intelligent than that sort of comparison.

 

I agree that no one should draw any final conclusions about what kind of QB Haskins will become...... but right now there is plenty to be concerned about

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I am concerned that we drafted a pure pocket passer in an era when mobile QBs seem to be among the best QBs in the game. Sure we can worry that they have shorter careers, but factoring in all the busts, kinda doubt that is true.

 

Building an offense around a pure pocket passer requires premium pass pro, but that is simply a struggle against the modern day defenses. We have all seen the best PPPs shut down under a ferocious pass rush. That will likely never change.

 

I think building an OL around a bookend left tackle also needs to seriously be re-evaluated.  At the core of the pocket is the play of the inside 3 G C G - and suspect the play of those 3 trumps that of the bookend LT. 

 

 

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@Burgold I’m regards to your psychology question, I think it is less to do with that than reacting to the speed of the game.  Which wasn’t helped by Jay essentially ignoring him for 6 months. And Haskins has culpability himself for not getting in the playbook on his own and owning his own development. 

 

So what’s Haskins is slow at is recognizing where he needs to go with the ball, getting his feet and eyes aligned and then getting the ball out.  There are times he get the neck-up part right but the neck-down part is behind and therefore the throw is inaccurate.

 

What he needs is an entire off-season where the primary focus of the whole team is to put him in a situation to succeed.  So they tailor the offense to what he can do, modify terminology as necessary, give him all the reps, and drill the ever living hell out of his technique. Basically exactly what the Ravens did with Lamar.  Except what Haskins can do is different than what Lamar can do. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

What stopped the Skins from signing Cousins in the 2016 offseason was that Cousins wanted a fully-guaranteed 3-yr contract and was not gonna budge. Skins weren't gonna go for a fully guaranteed contract that was going to be negotiated again 3 years down the road.

That’s not what I remember.  I remember them working on a deal where Cousins camp was around $18m/year and the skins were around 15, and weren’t going to budge.  

 

In the 2017 off-season, I think he was looking for a fully guaranteed deal.  But I don’t remember it after his first year starting. 

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