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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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Haskins missed badly all day on Sunday, and at times held the ball a bit too long in the pocket. But there is a silver lining in that his reads were sound, He is not afraid of stepping into a throw with pressure, the passes were over thrown but in the right window, and mclaurin has shown he can consistently get open on single coverage. 
 

This is a phenomenal wr draft, and although I like Harmon, he’s not a game changer. I would draft a wr in the 2nd/3rd this year, move Sims to the slot ( and quinn to the bench), and above all, trade for OJ Howard. We have the worst TE roster in the league, and unfortunately this is a weak draft in that regard. 
 

If we somehow have the ability to land Young, you gotta do it. But otherwise, I’m getting the best offensive pieces I can with the first 3 rounds. 

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I didn't like what I saw in Haskins from the point where he said, "The league dun messed up!"

 

Nobody likes a primadonna and specifically one with so little experience.  From that instance I was sure the one who messed up was the Redskins.  He's done nothing to cast any doubt on that to date.  The last straw for me was viewing the immaturity resurfacing over and over again.  Now he's showing up late and lying to the media to cya with nothing but excuses.  He's a bust until proven otherwise.  

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2 hours ago, kfrankie said:

 

Can't compare those numbers, it's a much different era now.  Especially touchdown/interception ratios.

So when does this era begin? When can I start comparing these things to previous QBs? And what can I use to compare Hasking to QBs of a different era?

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Too much too fast...

 

crashing back to reality was predictable and it's happening. We do serve the biggest pieces of humble pie here in AshBurn which is probably close to free fall for a guy that went from 0 TDs to 50.

 

But I can't believe he is acting like a 22 year old male.  Of all the nerve.

 

tenor.gif

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This isnt a town conducive to developing a QB.  And thats not all on just the front office.  The impatience of the fans is really overwhelming at times, and this thread is the perfect example.  Jeebus people, this is his 3rd start, he has very little talent surroundung him, he was known to be a project and unrefined, and people already have given up.

 

A lot of the same people who said they just wanted to see progress from Haskins are the ones giving up now.  But there are signs of progress are there, just not in huge leaps and bounds.  And what exactly is the hurry?  The season was over a month ago.  If you cant be patient now, then when will you be patient?

 

Watching Lamar Jackson on MNF, all I could think was, D.C. could never have developed Lamar.  AND DONT BLAME BRUCE.  We woulda declared him a bust long ago after he struggled when we hired a coach with a traditional offense and Lamar didnt immediately fit into the system.  Not saying thats whats.happening here but that IS what woulda happened with Lamar.

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6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The media isn't saying he was overdrafted, they are saying they are being told by some Redskins scouts at Redskins Park that they had Haskins graded as a 2nd rounder.

I have heard Sheehan keep saying “the football people,” but I have no idea who exactly he’s referring to.  It could be Kyle Smith, Doug Williams, Jay Gruden, or others.  I think we pretty much know at this point Jay didn’t want Haskins, or really any other QB in the draft because he thought he could win with Colt and probably Case.  And a rookie was just more of a distraction.  And honestly I don’t blame him for that, except Jay is the only person in the NFL who thinks Colt can play.  

 

I think we know that Bruce/Dan wanted Haskins.  

 

We don’t really know anything else. 

 

The other thing we don’t know is the grades of other teams on Haskins.  Just because the Redskins scouts might have had a second round grade on him doesn’t mean that every team did or didn’t.  And scouts get this stuff wrong about 50% of the time anyway.  It’s all opinions.  Hell, every year there are players who are over and under drafted.

 

The entire draft is a crap shoot.  You do all this work and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t.  Even the best organizations at drafting have busts regularly.  

 

From what we were told, these same “football people” had Sweat ahead of Haskins.  And if it weren’t for Haskins, Sweat and the Sweat pick would both be getting skewered. 

 

Which is one reason I just honestly don’t care that much who made which pick.  The Redskins scouts and football people have hits and misses, and If Bruce/Dan wanted to roll the dice with Haskins, I don’t really care. I wasn’t in love with the pick. 

 

What I care much more about was then pairing a rookie QB who clearly needed development with a coach in his 6th year who needed to “win now.”  Because that was stupidity of the highest order.  Either you pass on the QB, replace the coach or tell the coach wins don’t matter and developing the QB does.  THAT is where Dan/Bruce completely screwed the pooch. Should they have overridden the “football people?”  Probably not.  But at the same time I don’t have much faith in the football people either, so I care less.

 

Now, if they had a really proven scouting department with s track record of success and they ignored them, I’d be more pissed.  But they don’t.  And the only position Bruce actually cares about is QB, and the only round of the draft he cares about is the first. So it’s not that Bruce just meddles in everything. Other folks in the FO have culpability to the sucky roster also.  

 

So, until they have an honest to God GM who knows what the hell hes doing and a scouting department that really seems to know what it’s doing, I don’t care if it’s Dan, Bruce, Doug, Kyle or the janitor or bar tender on the club level doing the picking. Hell, the janitor might have as good a batting average. 

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1 hour ago, Koala said:

 

Watching Lamar Jackson on MNF, all I could think was, D.C. could never have developed Lamar.  AND DONT BLAME BRUCE.  We woulda declared him a bust long ago after he struggled when we hired a coach with a traditional offense and Lamar didnt immediately fit into the system.  Not saying thats whats.happening here but that IS what woulda happened with Lamar.


I get your point, but the Jackson point is true for the majority of the NFL. You couldn’t really find anyone willing to commit to the system the Ravens have employed. The Redskins were actually ahead of the curve with RG3, but even the staff behind the genius offense they constructed, drafted a pocket QB in 4th round as a backup. Jackson can get knocked out and the Ravens have RG3 waiting to run the same offense with Mcsorley being developed as the 3rd QB. 
 

The Ravens sticking with Jackson through last years playoff game against Chargers was a big win for the dual option black QB, because it offered the opportunity to have a bad 3 quarters or game and not for it to be considered a gimmicky offense to be moved on from for a traditional drop back QB. When a Phillip Rivers or Aaron Rodgers go ten plus years without coming close to a SB, it’s everything else around them, but the dual threat QB/offense is to blame when losing in similar situations. 
 

The Ravens will enjoy great success for a few years, due to being trailblazers. Fascinating stuff. 
 


On to Haskins, would like the Skins to take a page out of the Chiefs approach and get nothing but speed on the field and allow Haskins to challenge teams consistently down the field with a mix of bubbles, crossers, and slants. 

 

**A comparable would be how the NBA treats getting to the basket and shooting 3s and limiting midrange shots. This seems to be what I see with Mahomes. 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have heard Sheehan keep saying “the football people,” but I have no idea who exactly he’s referring to.  It could be Kyle Smith, Doug Williams, Jay Gruden, or others.  I think we pretty much know at this point Jay didn’t want Haskins, or really any other QB in the draft because he thought he could win with Colt and probably Case.  And a rookie was just more of a distraction.  And honestly I don’t blame him for that, except Jay is the only person in the NFL who thinks Colt can play.  

 

I think we know that Bruce/Dan wanted Haskins.  

 

We don’t really know anything else. 

 

 

You've missed some Sheehan podcasts then because once inawhile he's gotten more specific.   Sheehan in a podcast said to Keim, he heard that Kyle wasn't on board with the pick and Keim said he's heard the same.  But usually most of the talk is about the scouts in the building.  Keim flat out referred to that in an exchange with someone on twitter and I posted it on this very thread weeks back.  Hoffman ditto talked about scouts.  

44 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The other thing we don’t know is the grades of other teams on Haskins.  Just because the Redskins scouts might have had a second round grade on him doesn’t mean that every team did or didn’t.  And scouts get this stuff wrong about 50% of the time anyway.  It’s all opinions.  Hell, every year there are players who are over and under drafted.

 

The entire draft is a crap shoot.  You do all this work and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t.  Even the best organizations at drafting have busts regularly.  

 

 

 Sure, that's super obvious I am sure to anyone here but what does that have to do with my point?

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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You've missed some Sheehan podcasts then because once inawhile he's gotten more specific.   Sheehan in a podcast said to Keim, he heard that Kyle wasn't on board with the pick and Keim said he's heard the same.  But usually most the talk is about the scouts in the building.  Keim flat out referred to that in an exchange with someone on twitter and I posted it on this very thread weeks back.  Hoffman ditto talked about scouts.  

 I don’t listen to every Sheehan podcast, and if he said Kyle wasn’t on board, fine.  

 

And I still don’t care.  Maybe it’s because I just don’t think there’s any path to success with any of the people who are here, so I’ve kindof given up hope.  I’m absolutely convinced this group of idiots could have been given Tom Brady and would figure out a way to screw it up.  

 

I know for damn sure that they would never have been remotely creative enough to commit to or get what Baltimore is getting out of Lamar.  

 

From top top to bottom, FO and coaching staff, there is so much suck in this organization that nothing really matters.

 

So I don’t care who picked Haskins.  And I don’t care who was for it and who was against it.  

 

Haskins could be the second coming of Dan Marino and it wouldn’t matter.  

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6 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

See this is the opposite of what I'm looking for. Its not about a betting argument right now. That's all I hear on the radio, what he'll ultimately be, what he has no hopes of being, etc. You talk about the five practices you attended, and thats great but that was 5 months ago or so. How has he grown since then? I like Bullock because he talks about play by play. Not some over-arching image or some projection, just "he did this right", "he did htis wrong". That allows me to read the story chapter by chapter, not some cliffnotes type movie review. 

 

 

 

I've debated you many times and that comment is coming off to me unusually snarky unless I am misreading your point. 

 

I've put in as much substance as what I've seen from Haskins as just about anyone here including you.  I wrote a long post pre-draft about Haskins including many clips.  I got complemented by many on this same thread during training camp for going into more detail as a fan than any reporter watching Haskins in camp.

 

As for his games, yeah I put up some clips too of aspects of his games awhile back. Sorry I am not paid like Bullock to write weekly reports.  I don't have time to always watch the all 22 film.  I started to rewatch last Sunday's game but got caught up with work.  If you think my assessment of Haskins is shallow compared to Bullock - I actually agree with that.  I don't think anyone here dives as deep into players like he does.  But in everyone's defense we aren't paid to do it.  We do it in our spare time for our own amusement. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What was your point again? :P 

 

I got into a debate with Thinking Skins who was bemoaning the media coverage about Haskins including him being associated with Dan.  And then the conversation got off on a tangent about the draft geeks (Kiper, McShay, etc) assessment of players and can their evaluation give some meat on the bone to justify Dan liking a player if there is overlap with the Kiper's of the world, etc.  In short, is the media draft geek assessment of players enough to justify if a pick was a reach of not.

 

So I gave my take on both points.  

19 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 I don’t listen to every Sheehan podcast, and if he said Kyle wasn’t on board, fine.  

 

And I still don’t care.  Maybe it’s because I just don’t think there’s any path to success with any of the people who are here, so I’ve kindof given up hope.  I’m absolutely convinced this group of idiots could have been given Tom Brady and would figure out a way to screw it up.  

 

I know for damn sure that they would never have been remotely creative enough to commit to or get what Baltimore is getting out of Lamar.  

 

From top top to bottom, FO and coaching staff, there is so much suck in this organization that nothing really matters.

 

So I don’t care who picked Haskins.  And I don’t care who was for it and who was against it.  

 

Haskins could be the second coming of Dan Marino and it wouldn’t matter.  

 

My point isn't that different.  For a normal organization, I would care.  But for this one, they have bigger problems.   My only disagreement with your points is yeah I think Dan hasn't earned the right to overrule anyone in that building on the QB position.  His track record is beyond laughable at that position in particular.  And I get your point isn't to praise Dan but to slam everyone all together. 

 

My take at this point on Haskins is let's see what he's got.  As to how he got here, yeah it does come off like a crap show but the FO structure is what it is.  But it serves nothing to dwell on it. 

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9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I got into a debate with Thinking Skins who was bemoaning the media coverage about Haskins including him being labeled and associated with Dan.  And then the conversation got off on a tangent about the draft geeks (Kiper, McShay, etc) assessment of players and can their evaluation give some meat on the bone to justify Dan liking a player if there is overlap with the Kiper's of the world, etc.  In short, is the media draft geek assessment of a players enough to justify if a pick was a reach of not.

 

So I gave my take on both points.  

Right then.  

 

Dan picked Haskins so Haskins is always going to be linked to Dan. That’s just the way it’s going to be.

 

And anybody who takes Mel seriously with that hair can be sold some really good coastal property in Iowa.  Also his track record on guys he falls in love with isn’t exactly stellar.  Who was that flunky QB from Notre Dame who he thought was going to be the next Joe Montana and flunked put quickly? 

 

I firmly believe there is no such thing as a reach of a pick.  Just good picks and bad picks, which you don’t really know for a few years anyway.   If you like a guy, you take him.  There’s no really good way to know where other teams have the player ranked.  So if you play the “we can get him later” you can get bitten.  If you’ve done a crap job evaluating and setting your board, then you make bad picks.

 

Shrug. 

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7 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Brady Quinn

That was him.  If memory serves he also had a smoking hot girlfriend who was with him in the green room. 

 

Edit: @Skinsinparadise I was just playing with you with the long post thing.  I think you, me and @thesubmittedone basically take the cake with long posts. I was thinking of hiring an editor for myself. :P 

Edited by Voice_of_Reason
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1 hour ago, Koala said:

This isnt a town conducive to developing a QB.  And thats not all on just the front office.  The impatience of the fans is really overwhelming at times, and this thread is the perfect example.  Jeebus people, this is his 3rd start, he has very little talent surroundung him, he was known to be a project and unrefined, and people already have given up.

 

A lot of the same people who said they just wanted to see progress from Haskins are the ones giving up now.  But there are signs of progress are there, just not in huge leaps and bounds.  And what exactly is the hurry?  The season was over a month ago.  If you cant be patient now, then when will you be patient?

 

Watching Lamar Jackson on MNF, all I could think was, D.C. could never have developed Lamar.  AND DONT BLAME BRUCE.  We woulda declared him a bust long ago after he struggled when we hired a coach with a traditional offense and Lamar didnt immediately fit into the system.  Not saying thats whats.happening here but that IS what woulda happened with Lamar.

This is a ridiculous post.  First, you are blaming fans for not being able develop a QB?  If the front office is listening to the fans - major problem.  Second, this is what fans do.  Fans ****, gripe, analyze and then repeat the process.  And don’t for a second think this happens just in DC.  Philadelphia radio is full of fans who want to walk away from Wentz.  You think Ravens fans weren’t espousing their views on LJ last year when he was struggling?  Goff was in the Super Bowl a year ago and fans are calling him a bum this year.
 

And to say this team can’t give a QB time to develop, what about Jason Campbell?  Patrick Ramsey?  RG3 even.  They even stuck with Cousins for 3-4 years.   And the Redskins still haven’t had a franchise QB under Synder.  
 

But yeah - it’s the fans fault. Woo boy...

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54 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Right then.  

 

Dan picked Haskins so Haskins is always going to be linked to Dan. That’s just the way it’s going to be.

 

 

Yep that was more or less my point about Dan.  The good news for him is if Haskins does blossom then Dan will finally be associated with a strong personnel move that actually worked.  It would be big for him.

 

54 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

And anybody who takes Mel seriously with that hair can be sold some really good coastal property in Iowa.  Also his track record on guys he falls in love with isn’t exactly stellar.  Who was that flunky QB from Notre Dame who he thought was going to be the next Joe Montana and flunked put quickly? 

 

 

Yeah it was Clausen for Mel.  He was so convinced that he would be the goods that he said he'd retire if he's wrong.  

 

The thing about most of the draft media talking heads is they are really just fans or media people who decided to dive into the draft.  With an occasional exception like Jeremiah.  

 

Like I told Thinking Skins its ironic that I am trashing them here because on the draft thread from time to time I get fun of for posting their stuff. So I get associated with the mock drafters more than most.  It's not so much that I think these guys opinions are worthless.  I do like some of them, Ledyard, Brugler among others.  But I admit the ones I like often are because my opinion dovetails with their takes. 

 

But I do realize that most personnel-scout types don't take the draft geek media talking heads that seriously -- every now and then they will say something about it.  I posted something on it on this thread earlier today.  When I mentioned the topic to Scot the one time I talked him he started laughing.

 

54 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I firmly believe there is no such thing as a reach of a pick.  Just good picks and bad picks, which you don’t really know for a few years anyway.   If you like a guy, you take him.  There’s no really good way to know where other teams have the player ranked.  So if you play the “we can get him later” you can get bitten.  If you’ve done a crap job evaluating and setting your board, then you make bad picks.

 

 

Agree with this.  But you still ride on your opinion at the moment otherwise what's the point?  You don't know if you are right or wrong but if you are a professional you are going to trust your opinion over a nonprofessional.    My uncle is a stock broker, I am sure he thinks he's better at picking stocks than I am.  And he certainly is.  But when we trade stories I find on occasional I pick some better ones.  There is a randomness to stock picking just like there is on the draft.  Dan though sadly has already proven he stinks at stock picking so to hope for success IMO is completely driven by the randomness of the process and getting lucky. 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've debated you many times and that comment is coming off to me unusually snarky unless I am misreading your point. 

Not meant to be snarky. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've put in as much substance as what I've seen from Haskins as just about anyone here including you.  I wrote a long post pre-draft about Haskins including many clips.  I got complemented by many on this same thread during training camp for going into more detail as a fan than any reporter watching Haskins in camp.

Yes, and i appreciate your contributions. I'm just looking at the last 10 pages of content (or so) on this thread and mixing that in with the local sports media and what they're talking about and its a lot less about what Haskins is actually doing in his three starts, and more about what he said in his press conferences, or before that the situation with the OL, or these projections of whether he's a bust or not or whether he was over drafted or not.

 

And I'm not saying that these conversations shouldn't happen but if we're going to talk about him as a QB why not talk about where he has grown and where he has not, I mention Mark Tyler, Craig Hoffman, and Mark Bullock (and I should throw Chris Cooley into that list) because those are some twitter accounts or web pages (or for Cooley, his or Sheehan's podcast) where I can see detailed analysis of where Haskins has grown vs where he still looks raw. 

 

For example, Hoffman put out an article I want to say in the beginning of October saying that Haskins was having serious problems reading defenses (I don't know but I have a feeling this was part of what led to him laughing off that criticism at a press conference). Since we've seen him start 3 games I can watch for myself and read analysts who say that they're impressed with how well he's reading defenses. Hoffman criticized Haskins on the Int to Quinn in the Jets game as the wrong read but I disagreed because he had Quinn if Quinn doesn't move, so it may not have been the ideal read, but it was a reasonable one. 

 

But I'm seeing less of these conversations here and more of the simple projections saying that he is or is not a or will be or will not be a bust. Not saying you exclusively do that, but this thread has become a lot more of that than analyzing his play. And my original point was that this is the exact same thing going on in the media to a large extent, I see a narrative being formed around "they didn't want him" and "he's not worth a first round pick" or even the "he's extremely raw so you should expect these mistakes". I actually like how JP fights some of these things calling it Ashburning. We shouldn't excuse C level play from him and call it A because we've lowered our expectations. But I'd also say that I don't want to say that he can't be a Mahomes or Watson simply because Gruden didn't like him. 

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Dan though sadly has already proven he stinks at stock picking so to hope for success IMO is completely driven by the randomness of the process and getting lucky. 

I'd just comment on this that Dan has gotten some right. The most obvious example is Santana Moss. He let them pick Gardner, who was a bust. Its still random and I think more information helps but Dan isn't Lucky from Goodfellas and I'm not about to throw away my lottery ticket just because Dan has the same numbers

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8 hours ago, Csup said:

This is a ridiculous post.  First, you are blaming fans for not being able develop a QB?  If the front office is listening to the fans - major problem.  Second, this is what fans do.  Fans ****, gripe, analyze and then repeat the process.  And don’t for a second think this happens just in DC.  Philadelphia radio is full of fans who want to walk away from Wentz.  You think Ravens fans weren’t espousing their views on LJ last year when he was struggling?  Goff was in the Super Bowl a year ago and fans are calling him a bum this year.
 

And to say this team can’t give a QB time to develop, what about Jason Campbell?  Patrick Ramsey?  RG3 even.  They even stuck with Cousins for 3-4 years.   And the Redskins still haven’t had a franchise QB under Synder.  
 

But yeah - it’s the fans fault. Woo boy...

I knew this post was coming...Its perhaps overly simplistic to lay the blame here on the fans, of course.  Perhaps the better way of putting it is -- the atmosphere in Washington is not conducive to developing a QB, and part of that atmosphere is created by the fans.  Of course, in the end, it is the job of the front office to manage fan expectations and produce a healthier and more patient atmosphere.

 

But there is something about Washington that is anathema for a young QB.  I just dont think its a coincidence or simply bad luck that we've been looking for a franchise QB since Sunny freaking Jurgensen, and have had success just once with Joe Theisman.

 

The saying goes something like the hottest seat in Washington is number one the QB of the Redskins, and number two is the President of the U.S.

 

I dont know how long youve been a fan.  But believe it or not, our failure to develop a QB pre-dates Snyder.  Its almost one of the defining features of this franchise, and a lot of Gibbs success lay in fact that he proved you didnt really need a franchise QB to be successful.  The fact he won 3 SBs with three different QBs was not a coincedence -- it may have been the only way to pull off success in Washington.  This is something Gibbs understood early, evidenced by when he practically tripped over himself to trade away a young Jay Schroeder before he got stuck trying to develop a young QB in Washington.

 

Anyhow, my bottom line is this.  We know the FO is composed of a bunch of clowns.  Lets not, as fans, further encourage their tendencies towards impatience and rash decision making by giving up on our young QB before he has had a fair chance to prove or disprove himself.  For example, Like this selfie-gate thing really should be over by now  Thats all Im saying.

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18 minutes ago, Koala said:

I knew this post was coming...Its perhaps overly simplistic to lay the blame here on the fans, of course.  Perhaps the better way of putting it is -- the atmosphere in Washington is not conducive to developing a QB, and part of that atmosphere is created by the fans.  Of course, in the end, it is the job of the front office to manage fan expectations and produce a healthier and more patient atmosphere.

 

But there is something about Washington that is anathema for a young QB.  I just dont think its a coincidence or simply bad luck that we've been looking for a franchise QB since Sunny freaking Jurgensen, and have had success just once with Joe Theisman.

 

The saying goes something like the hottest seat in Washington is number one the QB of the Redskins, and number two is the President of the U.S.

 

I dont know how long youve been a fan.  But believe it or not, our failure to develop a QB pre-dates Snyder.  Its almost one of the defining features of this franchise, and a lot of Gibbs success lay in fact that he proved you didnt really need a franchise QB to be successful.  The fact he won 3 SBs with three different QBs was not a coincedence -- it may have been the only way to pull off success in Washington.  This is something Gibbs understood early, evidenced by when he practically tripped over himself to trade away a young Jay Schroeder before he got stuck trying to develop a young QB in Washington.

 

Anyhow, my bottom line is this.  We know the FO is composed of a bunch of clowns.  Lets not, as fans, further encourage their tendencies towards impatience and rash decision making by giving up on our young QB before he has had a fair chance to prove or disprove himself.  For example, Like this selfie-gate thing really should be over by now  Thats all Im saying.

 

I do not think it was a situation where the Redskins "failed to develop" all the QBs they drafted. Shuler, Cambell, Ramsey etc just couldn't play, it happens way more often than the not, and they would have failed regardless of which team drafted them.   That's why the Cousins thing will continue to haunt this team. They finally drafted and developed a top 10 QB and then became the only team in league history to simply allow him to walk for nothing. 

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9 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

Yes, and i appreciate your contributions. I'm just looking at the last 10 pages of content (or so) on this thread and mixing that in with the local sports media and what they're talking about and its a lot less about what Haskins is actually doing in his three starts, and more about what he said in his press conferences, or before that the situation with the OL, or these projections of whether he's a bust or not or whether he was over drafted or not.

 

 

OK but as for me, my point was am undecided about Haskins. You highlighted a point I said in that mix where if I had to predict now that would be my prediction but am not ready to predict and am undecided about the dude.   You go that's not helpful to give a betting argument but want meat on the bone.  Well for starters I've given plenty of meat on the bone, I just don't feel like doing it every time.  And my specific thought at this given time isn't designed to persuade you or anyone else.   

 

But my hardcore opinion here ironically is that am undecided so if I am trying to sway anyone it is the angle that its still too early to know.  I guess maybe our slight disagreement is that some (not all) of what's being said about Haskins positive and negative I am factoring in the soup as to forming my still evolving opinion -- you say you aren't all in on Haskins but at the same time you seem to prefer to discard the negative talk about his intangibles as basically all misguided and highlight the positives. 

 

Or if that's not what you truly think, it still comes off that way to me.  So there is so much I am willing to argue on it because if you are going glass half full at full speed and am debating that then it comes off that am negative on him because what other side can someone have on that debate if it's framed that hard one way?

 

It's part of the reason why I don't want to post what I think of Haskins at this given time with specifics and clips (even though I've done it previously) because people with slants one way or another will try to pigeonhole me.  And I am not ready to be pigeonholed.  Eventually, I will be.  I've never been shy at landing a position on a QB.  I'll get there.  😀  You are trying to pigeonhole me now based on what I take in versus what you decide to take in about him.   But I am truly not decided no matter how your attempt to place me somewhere on the spectrum of the argument.   

 

9 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

For example, Hoffman put out an article I want to say in the beginning of October saying that Haskins was having serious problems reading defenses (I don't know but I have a feeling this was part of what led to him laughing off that criticism at a press conference). Since we've seen him start 3 games I can watch for myself and read analysts who say that they're impressed with how well he's reading defenses. Hoffman criticized Haskins on the Int to Quinn in the Jets game as the wrong read but I disagreed because he had Quinn if Quinn doesn't move, so it may not have been the ideal read, but it was a reasonable one. 

 

 

I've listened to Hoffman plenty.  And I think you are getting a bit too defensive of Haskins zeroing in on the negative.  He ultimately blamed that play on both players.  But regardless, Hoffman actually thought he was progressing after the last game and made his case after the Lions game. 

 

9 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

But I'm seeing less of these conversations here and more of the simple projections saying that he is or is not a or will be or will not be a bust. Not saying you exclusively do that, but this thread has become a lot more of that than analyzing his play.

 

I am the same dude who has said a million times on this very thread that it's too early.  So lumping me in with that group who is labeling Haskins definitively?   I guess am living to regret the comment to you which was I haven't made up my mind, if I had to make a prediction now this is what it would be but I wouldn't put a dime on it in Vegas since it's too early lets see it play out.  So that comment is right up there with all those saying he's a bust and time to move on?

 

9 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I'd just comment on this that Dan has gotten some right. The most obvious example is Santana Moss. He let them pick Gardner, who was a bust. Its still random and I think more information helps but Dan isn't Lucky from Goodfellas and I'm not about to throw away my lottery ticket just because Dan has the same numbers

 

I know about Moss.  Give me the "some" though outside of Moss?  I wouldn't throw away my lottery ticket, either.  I think Dan has clearly established himself as a moron when it comes to football. I'd gather media talking heads or him getting excited about a college football game he happened to watch or whatever superficial fan type of thing moves him -- is what typically drives him.   At some point, one of his whims is bound to be right.  There are studies on stocks where if you take just some 5 year old kid to randomly pick a stock out of the wall street pages and eventually they will get some right.  Boy is Dan due on that front.   My point on that front isn't Haskins driven but about Dan in general - I don't know how one dude can get so much wrong, and that's just the stuff we know about.  I could imagine what else is out there. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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