FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I got no problem with Alex Smith if the defense is playing lights out and the run game is working.  I think little of Keenum, I'd take Alex over him and said so before the season.  Peterson got off to rough start this season.  His YPA is still pretty poor in spite of his uptick in recent games.  The defense also stunk at the beginning of this year -- that wasn't the case last year.  In Keenum's defense, they had a rough schedule at the start of the season.  As Warren Sharp pointed out, Alex statistically speaking had the easiest run of defenses (or maybe it was the 3 easiest I don't recall) during his part of the season last year.  Yet, their passing offense still wasn't hot.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But no one is celebrating Smith. I certainly think Smith is undervalued here. Mostly by people who loved Cousins. Just like the Cousins people think he was undervalued by people who loved Griffin.

 

And as a guy who likes Smith and think he gave this team more than people give him credit for, I don't think he's a great option going into 2020. His contract alone is a hindrance. The positive there, though, is that there is a cap floor and I guess he can help reach that if we shed a bunch of contracts. But he's not the guy.

 

A free agent guy in the mold of, say, Andy Dalton if he's available for a small number ($4/M/year for 1-2 years) is a better stop-gap veteran than an injured Smith. But with Smith being buddies with Snyder, if he is healthy, I wouldn't be surprised to see Smith back. 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

But no one is celebrating Smith. I certainly think Smith is undervalued here. Mostly by people who loved Cousins. Just like the Cousins people think he was undervalued by people who loved Griffin.

 

And as a guy who likes Smith and think he gave this team more than people give him credit for, I don't think he's a great option going into 2020. His contract alone is a hindrance. The positive there, though, is that there is a cap floor and I guess he can help reach that if we shed a bunch of contracts. But he's not the guy.

 

A free agent guy in the mold of, say, Andy Dalton if he's available for a small number ($4/M/year for 1-2 years) is a better stop-gap veteran than an injured Smith. But with Smith being buddies with Snyder, if he is healthy, I wouldn't be surprised to see Smith back. 

 

This isn't directed to you but am explaining why I am opposed to the whole celebrating the first half of the season last year. 

 

My main problem with Alex has really nothing to do with him per se but that he's used as a prop by Bruce that they know what they are doing.  It's not hard to see by a mile its his favorite prop.  He does it publicly.  Beat guys have flat out said that's what Bruce uses to prop himself inside the building.  Heck that was Bruce's main defense of his whole era in his press conference weeks back.

 

The 6-3 BS to me is the height of the delusion on that front because the narrative starts with a lie.  They weren't 6-3 under Alex but 6-4.  Alex took the loss on the record books as he should have.  He played more than a half of that game and he stunk up that game.  People talk about Alex doesn't do turnovers -- well he did do turnovers in that game, it's why they got in that hole.  The fact that Bruce washed out the game like it never happened tells it all to me -- its just PR to him over reality.  I was at the game the week before that and Alex was pretty bad against a really bad defense.  But the Redskins defense turned over the ball 4 times (in spite of Tampa gained about 500 yards to our about 250) in the red zone.  And the Tampa field goal kicker missed two easy chip shots.  I recall that was the statistically the most lopsided game that resulted in a loss for a team in many years. 

 

My point is they could have easily been 5-5 let alone the 6-3 stuff that they trot out.  Teams with big time offenses, Saints and Falcons smoked us because we couldn't keep pace.  The other playoff team we played, the Colts, we lost too.  We eked by the Cowboys, that was a good win.  The 6-4 was a good start to the season but nothing so special that we got to keep hearing about it from Bruce again and again and again.  We started 6-3 in 2016.  As pointed here Jason Campbell got off to a good start to the season in year 1 under Zorn.  So what?

 

I just hate the partial season success narratives especially if its used to prop up a regime.  My best guess as for 2018 was maybe we ended up 9-7 and got smoked in round 1 of the playoffs.  That's nice.  But that's the high water mark for Dan's era every 4 years or so.  I just doesn't do it for me anymore.  But Bruce celebrating it to no end is nauseating to me.  

[bakedtater1]

So it's looking haskins might start sunday?

 

Maybe we see a better performance with him knowing hes the starter and actually starting the game makes a difference then getting thrown in there half way through the game 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This isn't directed to you but am explaining why I am opposed to the whole celebrating the first half of the season last year. 

 

My main problem with Alex has really nothing to do with him per se but that he's used as a prop by Bruce that they know what they are doing.  It's not hard to see by a mile its his favorite prop.  He does it publicly.  Beat guys have flat out said that's what Bruce uses to prop himself inside the building.  Heck that was Bruce's main defense of his whole era in his press conference weeks back.

 

The 6-3 BS to me is the height of the delusion on that front because the narrative starts with a lie.  They weren't 6-3 under Alex but 6-4.  Alex took the loss on the record books as he should have.  He played more than a half of that game and he stunk up that game.  People talk about Alex doesn't do turnovers -- well he did do turnovers in that game, it's why they got in that hole.  The fact that Bruce washed out the game like it never happened tells it all to me -- its just PR to him over reality.  I was at the game the week before that and Alex was pretty bad against a really bad defense.  But the Redskins defense turned over the ball 4 times (in spite of Tampa gained about 500 yards to our about 250) in the red zone.  And the Tampa field goal kicker missed two easy chip shots.  I recall that was the statistically the most lopsided game that resulted in a loss for a team in many years. 

 

My point is they could have easily been 5-5 let alone the 6-3 stuff that they trot out.  Teams with big time offenses, Saints and Falcons smoked us because we couldn't keep pace.  The other playoff team we played, the Colts, we lost too.  We eked by the Cowboys, that was a good win.  The 6-4 was an OK start to the season but nothing so special that we got to keep hearing about it from Bruce again and again and again.  We started 6-3 in 2016.  As pointed here Jason Campbell got off to a good start to the season in year 1 under Zorn.  So what?

 

I just hate the partial season success narratives especially if its used to prop up a regime.  My best guess as for 2018 was maybe we ended up 9-7 and got smoked in round 1 of the playoffs.  That's nice.  But that's the high water mark for Dan's era every 4 years or so.  I just doesn't do it for me anymore.  But Bruce celebrating it to no end is nauseating to me.  

 

You discredit Alex Smith because it makes Bruce Allen look competent, but the problem with Alex Smith wasn't even Alex Smith. It was the front office. That contract in combination with Fuller was a mistake. Too large of a number. But the quarterback was a fine choice as a leader/QB. But the FO, once again, screwed it up.

 

6-3/6-4/5-5. Whatever. It was lightyears from 1-7. Don't get that twisted... I kind of wish the team hit the reset button last year and crashed without Alex Smith. Alex Smith, in my opinion, helped prop up a team that was injury prone and unstable. Adrian Peterson did as well. No doubt about it. Last year's team may have been a weaker roster as well. It's probably an argument that could be hashed out in an intense debate that I don't want to have. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

You discredit Alex Smith because it makes Bruce Allen look competent,

 

Nope that wasn't my point. I don't discredit Alex for squat.  I think I have a good handle on him.  I discredit how he's propped up by Bruce with the BS 6-3 narrative among other things.   We've had good starts to seasons before.  I'll defend Bruce on one aspect of that point though - injuries tend to pile up especially in the 2nd halves of seasons.  It happened last year like that, too where it got out of hand.  it happened in 2017, too -- I was at the game when the wheels finally fell off when Chris Thompson got knocked out of the Saints game.  They got off to a 6-3 start in 2016.  it's not a foreign concept with this team.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Nope that wasn't my point. I don't discredit Alex for squat.  I think I have a good handle on him.  I discredit how he's propped up by Bruce with the BS 6-3 narrative among other things.   We've had good starts to seasons before.  I'll defend Bruce on one aspect of that point though - injuries tend to pile up especially in the 2nd halves of seasons.  It happened last year like that, too where it got out of hand.  it happened in 2017, too -- I was at the game when the wheels finally fell off when Chris Thompson got knocked out of the Saints game.  They got off to a 6-3 start in 2016.  it's not a foreign concept with this team.

 

Bruce would find a way to spin absolutely anything as a prop. I don't understand why Alex is any different here. We all see through it. If there is anyone that doesn't see through it, please contact me via PM. I have some land in Florida, water front view, with a dock and beautiful foliage to sell you!

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Bruce would find a way to spin absolutely anything as a prop. I don't understand why Alex is any different here. We all see through it. If there is anyone that doesn't see through it, please contact me via PM. I have some land in Florida, water front view, with a dock and beautiful foliage to sell you!

 

Agree but its his current favorite prop so when its phrased the way he likes it, it irks me some. 😀 I am not married to any player on this team or dislike any guy either.  I got a signed Alex jersey hanging right behind me where I am typing this post.   I like him.  I am not married to Kirk either but when he was on his way out, I wanted to go younger not older.   Heck Peterson is my main man crush on this roster and has been from the get go when we got him -- yet i was willing to trade him before the trade deadline.

 

It's about winning to me.  Not saying it's any different for you.  But Bruce hanging on to partial seasons with that narrative drives me a bit crazy.  We used to win SBs.  Now it's all this would of could of should of stuff.   The Alex stuff is just the new version of it.  I recall the year before it was look at how good we were against the Raiders on MNF and the Chiefs the game after that but then alas the injuries, hit. 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree but its his current favorite prop so when its phrased the way he likes it, it irks me some. 😀 I am not married to any player on this team or dislike any guy either.  I got a signed Alex jersey hanging right behind me where I am typing this post.   I like him.  I am not married to Kirk either but when he was on his way out, I wanted to go younger not older.   Heck Peterson is my main man crush on this roster and has been from the get go when we got him -- yet i was willing to trade him before the trade deadline.

 

It's about winning to me.  Not saying it's any different for you.  But Bruce hanging on to partial seasons with that narrative drives me a bit crazy.  We used to win SBs.  Now it's all this would of could of should of stuff.   The Alex stuff is just the new version of it.  I recall the year before it was look at how good we were against the Raiders on MNF and the Chiefs the game after that but then alas the injuries, hit. 

 

 

I think people believe I'm anti-Kirk (not you, I'm just piggybacking your post with this thought). I'm not. At all. I'm anti spending huge money on an average to slightly above average QB (for the record, Smith is in this category, too).

 

I'm also anti-stupid FO decision.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 10:07 AM, FrFan said:

I'm worrying since he didn't show any sign of the slightest improvement so far, and worst of all he's a Snyder pick. Good luck to him anyways.

And as the guy you quoted pointed out, only 1 year of college experience under his belt!    All the more reason he should have not been picked at 15.  115 maybe, not 15. Another glorious Bruce/Dan decision.

[bakedtater1]

So we know bruce ain't goin anywhere...this is where we gotta hope snyder goes with like tomlin of some sorts and this new coach....**** it dont matter does it?

 

Didnt Shanahan have(not trying to beat a dead horse here)like full control of draft and roster and everything?..didnt snyder push for rg3?...correct me if wrong but iirc Shanahan didn't want to go that route...didn't want to give up future picks

 

 

 

Point being, WE'RE ALL ****ED!!..but hey if we keep rooting for the skins to lose maybe it'll shake up...what?

[DJHJR86]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Smith wasnt good statistically as the QB of the Redskins. But his ability to make the men in the locker room believe in his role as the quarterback FAR surpasses Keenum's.

 

It's also interesting (in a strange sort of way) that people credit Adrian Peterson for Smith's rise, but somehow they neglect to attribute the same thing to Keenum's lack of winning. 

 

I have been banging that drum since last year.  We were 5-1 (with locker room commander Smith as the QB) when Peterson rushed for 90+ yards.  And guess how many games he's eclipsed 90+ yards this season?  One.  When we beat the Dolphins.  

 

The only thing Smith brings that Keenum does not is that Smith's terrible quarterback play is shadowed by the fact that he was on a stacked roster with a good coach for 5 years, whereas Keenum was only on a stacked roster with a good coach for 1 year.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

The only thing Smith brings that Keenum does not is that Smith's terrible quarterback play is shadowed by the fact that he was on a stacked roster with a good coach for 5 years, whereas Keenum was only on a stacked roster with a good coach for 1 year.

 

But there's quite a few differences.

 

1) Alex is more established and respected as a starting quarterback across the NFL.

2) Keenum is seen as a journeyman.

3) Alex costs a lot more against the cap than Case.

4) Case came without giving up a draft choice on top of the hefty contract

5) Alex is now intertwined with Snyder and Case isn't.

 

If the argument is: Who do I trust to win football games for a franchise more, the answer has to be Smith (again, opinion). If you're looking for a veteran presence that is a decent option that may potentially win a few games and is cheap while you rebuild, Case is a great option. 

 

Just because I like Smith doesn't mean I'm blind to the rest of the scenario. I know the common stances here are rooted hard in emotion, but I try not to do that with my takes.

 

For all of Alex's good, there were many "bads" that came along with him being the quarterback. 

 

I like Alex Smith, the NFL quarterback. Alex Smith the quarterback for the Washington Redskins isn't a great situation. Much the same as Cousins.

[volsmet]

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I never understand why fans would rather not lose than win.  That's the glaring difference between Kirk and Alex.  With one you had hope that you could win, with the other it was hope that you would not lose.  

I would rather win. Kirk costing teams games is the major distinction between the two. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Excited for DH’s first start. It’ll be his show this week and hope it’s his show from here on out. Get prepared young fella, and let’s start to show why we drafted you! This is step one in a long process.

[desertbeagle85]

1 minute ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Excited for DH’s first start. It’ll be his show this week and hope it’s his show from here on out. Get prepared young fella, and let’s start to show why we drafted you! This is step one in a long process.

 

Let's hope the play calling helps him out and doesn't hurt him. I don't want to see this. 

 

Run

Run 

3rd and long Pass 

 

Lets hope there is some creativity with the play calling and they let him pass more than just 3rd and long. 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

So we know bruce ain't goin anywhere...this is where we gotta hope snyder goes with like tomlin of some sorts and this new coach....**** it dont matter does it?

 

Didnt Shanahan have(not trying to beat a dead horse here)like full control of draft and roster and everything?..didnt snyder push for rg3?...correct me if wrong but iirc Shanahan didn't want to go that route...didn't want to give up future picks

 

 

 

Point being, WE'RE ALL ****ED!!..but hey if we keep rooting for the skins to lose maybe it'll shake up...what?

Exactly. Shanny had full control, except he didn't. And nobody else has or will either.

[SoCalSkins]

27 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Exactly. Shanny had full control, except he didn't. And nobody else has or will either.

Marty had full control. Used it and was fired after finishing 8-3 his first year for using it.

 

Dam said it wasn’t “fun”.

 

If Haskins is not a bust the slim chance of him ceding control becomes none.

 

 

[Hooper]

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Marty had full control. Used it and was fired after finishing 8-3 his first year for using it.

 

Dam said it wasn’t “fun”.

 

If Haskins is not a bust the slim chance of him ceding control becomes none.

 

 

And Marty’s lead personnel guy was John Schneider. It’s incredible how many people Danny has gotten rid of that have gone on to great success elsewhere. 

[SoCalSkins]

2 minutes ago, Hooper said:

And Marty’s lead personnel guy was John Schneider. It’s incredible how many people Danny has gotten rid of that have gone on to great success elsewhere. 

That’s the saddest part. It’s not like we haven’t had the right people in the building. They just aren’t allowed to do their jobs. If it was simply a matter of finding the right person then there would be hope. But that’s not the case. 

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

And as a guy who likes Smith and think he gave this team more than people give him credit for, I don't think he's a great option going into 2020. His contract alone is a hindrance. The positive there, though, is that there is a cap floor and I guess he can help reach that if we shed a bunch of contracts. But he's not the guy.

 

We are paying Alex Smith in 2020 come what may. He has a fully guaranteed year left on his deal and would cost us more to cut in cap terms than he would save. We can part ways in 2021 with a relatively modest dead cap hit and save about $14M in space by doing so.

 

I don't see him being able to pass a physical and play in 2020 though.

[SkinFanInMinn]

42 minutes ago, MartinC said:

We are paying Alex Smith in 2020 come what may. He has a fully guaranteed year left on his deal and would cost us more to cut in cap terms than he would save. We can part ways in 2021 with a relatively modest dead cap hit and save about $14M in space by doing so.

 

I don't see him being able to pass a physical and play in 2020 though.

Yeah, his walking boot might be uncomfortable when he tries it on before practice.

[RandyHolt]

I heard Galdi or some XM Fantasy folk saying that passing on first down as a change up to defenses, is actually starting to wane. 

 

I don't necessarily believe it, but if true, us never varying from run run pass is going to pay HUGE dividends.

 

Haskins is in line to get swarmed on our inevitable 3rd and longs, which should expedite the learning.

[SkinFanInMinn]

1 minute ago, RandyHolt said:

I heard Galdi or some XM Fantasy folk saying that passing on first down as a change up to defenses, is actually starting to wane. 

 

I don't necessarily believe it, but if true, us never varying from run run pass is going to pay HUGE dividends.

It's just like styles, if you wait long enough it will come back into style.  The Skins will be on top in 2040!

[brettstr]

A good coach would make Haskins what he IS and Not what they want him to be right now. Same as l Jackson for Baltimore. If he were here, Many Here would be calling him a failure or bust like ES fans are calling him. Not all but some He needs a good coach that will use his strengths and game plan for it

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, brettstr said:

A good coach would make Haskins what he IS and Not what they want him to be right now. Same as l Jackson for Baltimore. If he were here, Many Here would be calling him a failure or bust like ES fans are calling him. Not all but some He needs a good coach that will use his strengths and game plan for it

If Jackson was here he’d be the most ridiculed player in the nfl & everyone would think Bill Polian was right about calling him a WR.