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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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16 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said:

A 1st round pick (15) struggling this much in practice is alarming. Guess those reports are true that Dan meddled in the draft and picked his new BFF. 

I am furious with Dan Snyder right now on this one in particular.  You pick a QB at #15 in the first round and he is not ready to play and then you see a rookie,  like Jones succeed, which you could say is reasonable, okay, but then you look at someone like Gardner Minshew.. Who????  Oh yeah that 6th round pick, that the Jaguars were going to store and develop over time because they are good at evaluating potential.  But then because of the injury to Foles they are forced to stick him in the game. And most know what he is doing right now starting for the Jaguars.  The supposed project, which he should have been is killing it in the league and we have our 15th pick, sitting on the bench because his skill set is not up to par.  And that is not his fault.  

 

 And you have to say to yourself who were the evaluators in the Skins scouting department when it came to Haskins?  Danny makes a call after a few shots of Crowne?  What kind of bull **** is this?  

 

  That little **** Dan Snyder has done an incredible injustice to this kid on top of everything else.  Do I think he can be good?  Sure with the proper coaching and guidance which he not going to get here.  He is the one that should have been a late 4th round to an early 5th round pick, if the proper diligence was done.  He is clearly a developmental project.  

 

But if you pick a QB at 15 in the first round it is reasonable to assume the dude should be playing.    

 

 And if you have the likes of Josh Norman going public on a show saying essentially yeah he is not ready, and it takes time to learn the NFL for some players well then, clearly this is a project and again I am not saying the kid can't learn it but he can't help us get better now.  And Norman is bringing up what?  Mechanics?  Ability to adjust to the speed of the NFL? Ability to read defenses, and get to his second even third progression quickly?  Playbook?  What exactly?   We have a very limited sample size of his playing and we are not getting clear answers out of Redskins park.  

 

And should the Skins just put him out there and say okay he will learn on the job. NOOOO!  That would be what we heard one analyst refer to as "coaching malpractice."   Don't ruin this player because the owner Dan Snyder highjacked the draft again with his fantasy pick, when everyone in that room knew Haskins was not ready.

 

And I was thinking it would be good to have him learn on the job but now I realize the Skins if all the reports are accurate hurt him if we do that.

 

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55 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Haskins is not some left field pick who has marginal physical ability. He has everything you need to be a very good NFL QB - if he can process information quickly and handle the mental aspect needed. Which is not a given and is what sinks many good QB prospects. 

I don't dislike Haskins and actually feel sorry for him that he got drafted into this mess.  But we've seen QBs both more pro ready and with as much if not more physical talent that don't have general consensus they are the goods.  Reports certainly don't indicate that the league believes he's a slam dunk, and rarely is that the case with any young QB.  What that means is the Redskins have to find a coach and GM for that matter that believe Haskins is destined to be a franchise QB and wish to experience the growing pains that come with trying to turn him into one.  I'm not saying those people don't exist, but it's certainly not everyone - which to my point, limits the pool of candidates at our disposal which is already limited to begin with.

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1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

I honestly think if Haskins was drafted to a team like the Chargers, he absolutely would have a decent NFL career.  The odds for him being a bust rise dramatically because of the team that drafted him.  And that is not his fault.

 

Not just team, but situation.

 

The Chargers would have been an outstanding landing spot for him. Rivers will play at least a few more years. That gives him the time he needs to develop. If he's truly not ready you can even make him inactive and just say, "We're going through the process with Dwayne. It's not an indictment. We want to give him the time he needs to be successful".

 

Boom.

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26 minutes ago, MartinC said:

If the team still trust the judgement they made in drafting him unless you give him time, opportunity and put a structure and talent around him we will never know if he is a good QB.

This is where I get a bit hung up.  If we weren't the Redskins, with chatter about how the football people vs. the suits disagreed on Haskins, and plenty of talk about how the rest of the league didn't value him anywhere near as highly as our suits did, that would be easier to swallow.  But we are the Redskins with a history of fumbling nearly all big decisions, particularly related to the QB position.  I say all that not to say I'm convinced Haskins is going to be a bust as I literally have no idea, it's just I don't put much stock into how and why Dwayne was drafted at #15 by the Washington Redskins.

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I've changed positions more than I typically do on topics.  😀  I've come around to this point:  Play Haskins and soon.  I agree he's raw but I think you can see enough game to game as to whether he's progressed and keeps progressing or not.

 

I'll use an exaggerated analogy to make my point.  To me the operative point isn't just whether Haskins has it.  But also if they are in position to draft Tua you got to do an apples to apples comparison.  If their scouting let's say show Tua is the next Aaron Rodgers while they see Haskins right now like a Dalton type -- imagine the missed opportunity cost?   We talk about this organization to be cursed with bad luck -- imagine we pass on Tua and he's another Mahomes while Haskins lets say is just a decent QB but nothing great.  That in-itself can be transformative for the franchise one way or another for over a decade.   To me you got to look at not just whether Haskins is bust proof but how good is he (as to their projections) versus Tua or whomever.

 

And I'd add to that equation that multiple reporters (including conservative ones like Keim and Keim loves Haskins) have strongly hinted that there are scouts in that building who are not enamored with Haskins and his development thus far.   They love the person but just talking purely the player.   106.7 ran a full segment on the topic this week. At a minimum some are painting a picture that there is a divide in that building about him still.  Actually am hoping that whomever the naysayer Redskins scouts are  -- that they end up wrong.  But I want to see the party started so at least they could judge real data in real games. 

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I'm as sick as anyone about this franchise, but to have such hopelessness around Haskins is simple unbridled emotions.

 

This kid has every bit the talent as Jones, Minshew, etc. Damn, I'm pissed to, but he needs some time (over a year). Wait till next year and see where he is, that should have been the plan all along. This is a QB's league and you have to make investments like this, at 15 no brainer. You could have argued him in the top 10. 

 

I don't think it's fair that Haskins is getting lumped into the current organization's dysfunction.

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The guy Haskins reminds me of is Goff. When he has time to set up his mechanics, he looks good and even elite, but as soon as he gets rushed he becomes erratic. He's not like a Mahomes or Rodgers who can contort and still throw on a dime, but with work and experience could develop into a solid franchise pocket QB.

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We are SO going to botch our QB situation. 

 

We already have, in almost every way imaginable.  Starting with drafting him with Jay on the outs, but needing to win now to prove otherwise..  Which of course is difficult when a coach doesn't get a contribute now player at 15OA.  I could go on and on.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing McCoy jettisoned to get him out of Haskins way. There are just too many injury concerns to be able to count him yes even as a backup since he cannot stay healthy as the backup.  We can add him back later if we need an emergency QB. 

 

Any problems Haskins has had thus far digesting Jay's complicated offense is not a concern to me. Jay had zero incentive to re-invent his offense for Haskins.

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59 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 And if you have the likes of Josh Norman going public on a show saying essentially yeah he is not ready, and it takes time to learn the NFL for some players well then, clearly this is a project and again I am not saying the kid can't learn it but he can't help us get better now.  And Norman is bringing up what?  Mechanics?  Ability to adjust to the speed of the NFL? Ability to read defenses, and get to his second even third progression quickly?  Playbook?  What exactly?   We have a very limited sample size of his playing and we are not getting clear answers out of Redskins park.  

 

 

Norman didn’t go into specifics.  He praised Haskins physical tools but said he having problems with the little things ( which I can only assume is reading defenses) and adjusting to the speed of the NFL vs college.

Im not going to put a lot of stock into a 10 minute radio interview but the thing that struck was his tone.  Norman is a regular on the Eisen show and I remember him on the show in the spring after mini camp and he was really high on Haskins and his ability.  This time, not so much.  Very much a “we’ll have to wait and see” attitude.

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11 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

I'm as sick as anyone about this franchise, but to have such hopelessness around Haskins is simple unbridled emotions.

 

This kid has every bit the talent as Jones, Minshew, etc. Damn, I'm pissed to, but he needs some time (over a year). Wait till next year and see where he is, that should have been the plan all along. This is a QB's league and you have to make investments like this, at 15 no brainer. You could have argued him in the top 10. 

 

I don't think it's fair that Haskins is getting lumped into the current organization's dysfunction.

 

It's not fair.

 

But it's reality.

 

Yes, he deserves the chance to show he's got what it takes. Absolutely.

 

But Haskins is where he is... a developmental QB in an organization that isn't set up to develop him. Drafted a year too early/with a lame duck HC. 

 

I also think you're mistaking organizational hopelessness for Haskins hopelessness.

 

I think Haskins can succeed over time in the NFL. But probably not with us at this point. Though I am open to being wrong and hope I am. There are things that happen on the practice field and beyond closed doors that we don't know. I'm hoping those are what paints Haskins in a much better light.

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11 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

The guy Haskins reminds me of is Goff. When he has time to set up his mechanics, he looks good and even elite, but as soon as he gets rushed he becomes erratic. He's not like a Mahomes or Rodgers who can contort and still throw on a dime, but with work and experience could develop into a solid franchise pocket QB.

 

Goff had 3 years of college experience before being drafted in the NFL.  He was more pro-ready than Haskins was.  

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29 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Goff had 3 years of college experience before being drafted in the NFL.  He was more pro-ready than Haskins was.  


And still looked like **** as a rookie with poor coaching and situation.


Peyton Manning still owns the record for interceptions thrown in a season by a rookie.

 

It takes time.

 

Of course often time is not enough ...

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3 hours ago, MartinC said:

Or you could draft Tua, throw him into the mix and change tack again. Having no direction and constantly making ‘pivots’ is the sign of a failing organisation. 


Would you trade the #1 overall pick for DeShaun Watson? I’m not suggesting that’s who Tua is, just a question of your philosophy.

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

In Keenum's defense, he's been the best QB on this roster and I'd be pissed off too if I got benched for a rookie who is nowhere near ready and for a guy who is now 7-21 as a starter in the NFL.


If you have a guy who isn’t pissed about being benched, you have the wrong guy. 

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3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I disagree. Regardless of why you drafted Haskins, if he doesn't show he has the tools to be the guy, then you move on.

 

I could be on an island here, but isn't it alarming at all that people are suggesting that Haskins isn't playing simply because he's not ready? I mean, how far below par do you have to be to be considered unable to play? Yet everyone keeps saying the same things over and over and over again. It really could be that he's just in way over his head at this point. And there's no telling if that will go away or not (unless we see him out there this year and see the strides). Why would anyone want to pass on a possible generational talent in the draft in favor of developing a guy over the next 2-3 years just to see what he has? Haskins was drafted in the first round, but he needs to be treated as a mid round project, in my opinion. Hedge your bets, not go all in on a middling hand in a big money game. 

 

Maybe that doesn't mean that he can't develop and you throw him out. Maybe you keep him on the off chance he develops and then use him or a newer QB as trade bait later. Maybe you trade him now if a team is willing to give up enough for him. I don't know. It's too early to say regardless... But I think just saying, "we're not going to draft a QB, when we could be at the top of the draft because we drafted Dwayne Haskins" is a mistake. No one, not on person that I've seen, has said he is a transcendent talent at the QB position. I personally like his upside. But I don't see elite, top end talent. 

 

As far as I'm concerned this team is 0-5. There isn't a single position on the field that isn't up for grabs now or in the future.

 

Everything you need to be a very good NFL QB includes the ability to process information quickly and make good throws on a consistent basis. Two things he has yet to do.

 

 

 

 

You don't compound one mistake by saying right off the bat, that you are doubling down on that mistake (if it is one)

 

 

 

 

This absolutely needs to be weighed in the conversation. Agreed!

 

 

 

 

I like the first part, but the idea that they have to build around Haskins is a colossal mistake. Build around Haskins if you like him? Sure. Mandate? Bad move.

 

 

 

 

It's a failed organization. Starting over isn't an issue.  

 


Haskins is a cheap asset, previous costs should be entirely irrelevant imo. Right now he’s a QB on a cheap contract, the longer it takes to figure out what you’ve got, the worse position you put yourself in, eg; Kirk. Recognizing bad decisions early is what good teams do — not entirely unlike recognizing bad trades in the market, those who hold, hoping against more recent data, go on to get crushed. Sentimental ties are the hamartia of many outer space creatures. 
 

 

3 hours ago, MartinC said:

Nothing that has happened with Haskins so far should be a surprise, or alarming. It was known he was raw with only a year of starting experience and would need time to develop. And here we are - taking time. Unless something is happening we are not aware of that drastically changes the teams evaluation of Haskins changing QB again just puts you a further year back in the teams development and is yet another signal that there is no plan here. You are just throwing darts blindfold and hoping to hit a treble.


If it’s true that Dan is the reason we drafted somebody, then football was never the reason he was here. 

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2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Perhaps I missed it but did Gruden ever say what QB he would have drafted? Was it Jones? Or did he want McCoy and a later rounder like Grier or Stidham?


Russini is adamant that we wanted Jones, but she could be trolling Sip.

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19 minutes ago, volsmet said:


Would you trade the #1 overall pick for DeShaun Watson? I’m not suggesting that’s who Tua is, just a question of your philosophy 


Good question. Yes I would trade that pick for Watson. He’s a proven quantity and a high class elite QB.
 

I can absolutely rationalise giving up on still unknown quantity in Haskins for a high quality known quantity. I have a much harder time doing that for another unknown quantity.

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2 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

I am furious with Dan Snyder right now on this one in particular.  You pick a QB at #15 in the first round and he is not ready to play and then you see a rookie,  like Jones succeed, which you could say is reasonable, okay, but then you look at someone like Gardner Minshew.. Who????  Oh yeah that 6th round pick, that the Jaguars were going to store and develop over time because they are good at evaluating potential.  

 


Are they? They paid Foles a fortune - held on to Bortles forever - and all they needed, evidently, was Minshew or Kyle Allen.

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What that means is the Redskins have to find a coach and GM for that matter that believe Haskins is destined to be a franchise QB and wish to experience the growing pains that come with trying to turn him into one. 


What an absurdly narrow focus that’d be. Few things worse than doubling down on uncertainty. 

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2 minutes ago, volsmet said:


Are they? They paid Foles a fortune - held on to Bortles forever - and all they needed, evidently, was Minshew or Kyle Allen.


Agreed. Hitting on a QB in the 6th round is just dumb luck. The Jags have been throwing darts at a board and got lucky.

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3 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

I am furious with Dan Snyder right now on this one in particular.  You pick a QB at #15 in the first round and he is not ready to play and then you see a rookie,  like Jones succeed, which you could say is reasonable, okay, but then you look at someone like Gardner Minshew.. Who????  Oh yeah that 6th round pick, that the Jaguars were going to store and develop over time because they are good at evaluating potential.  But then because of the injury to Foles they are forced to stick him in the game. And most know what he is doing right now starting for the Jaguars.  The supposed project, which he should have been is killing it in the league and we have our 15th pick, sitting on the bench because his skill set is not up to par.  And that is not his fault.  

 

 And you have to say to yourself who were the evaluators in the Skins scouting department when it came to Haskins?  Danny makes a call after a few shots of Crowne?  What kind of bull **** is this?  

 

  That little **** Dan Snyder has done an incredible injustice to this kid on top of everything else.  Do I think he can be good?  Sure with the proper coaching and guidance which he not going to get here.  He is the one that should have been a late 4th round to an early 5th round pick, if the proper diligence was done.  He is clearly a developmental project.  

 

But if you pick a QB at 15 in the first round it is reasonable to assume the dude should be playing.    

 

 And if you have the likes of Josh Norman going public on a show saying essentially yeah he is not ready, and it takes time to learn the NFL for some players well then, clearly this is a project and again I am not saying the kid can't learn it but he can't help us get better now.  And Norman is bringing up what?  Mechanics?  Ability to adjust to the speed of the NFL? Ability to read defenses, and get to his second even third progression quickly?  Playbook?  What exactly?   We have a very limited sample size of his playing and we are not getting clear answers out of Redskins park.  

 

And should the Skins just put him out there and say okay he will learn on the job. NOOOO!  That would be what we heard one analyst refer to as "coaching malpractice."   Don't ruin this player because the owner Dan Snyder highjacked the draft again with his fantasy pick, when everyone in that room knew Haskins was not ready.

 

And I was thinking it would be good to have him learn on the job but now I realize the Skins if all the reports are accurate hurt him if we do that.

 

 

 

Excellent post

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