FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

Pure junk food meaningless entertainment for those interested.  Bayless is a big Keenum guy, who would have thunk? 😀

 

 

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yeah one area I was worried about with when it came to Haskins was his ability to handle pressure. A decent part of that is that he simply didn't see much of it at OSU due to having a really good OL. But outside of the occasional head-scratcher I've been very impressed so far with his ability to slide in the pocket and avoid pressure. He's had to do it many times during the preseason and looked pretty smooth doing it.

 

Yeah that's the big difference for me, too.   When I watched camp, I mentioned they had a lot of QB keeps with Haskins just taking off.  He looked quicker than I expected on that front and said so then.  But he didn't seem that quick moving laterally but it looks like he's been working on it.  Reddick said in a segment months back that Haskins was working on improving his ability to work laterally in the pocket.  He said it was one of his big things he wanted to showcase in his pro day to show that he's working on it to alleviate concerns that some had about him on that front.  To my eyes, he's more nimble and quick that he looked at Ohio State.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Pure junk food meaningless entertainment for those interested.  Bayless is a big Keenum guy, who would have thunk? 😀

 

 

My first thought was he's a Cowboy fan, so if he says something really good about our QB it must mean something.

And I agree with him, that he and other Cowboy fans would probably much rather see Haskins in Week 2 than Keenum.

Flukiest season ever ? That cannot be judged until his career is over. He is going to have plenty of time to answer to that.

 

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that you can't fluke for an entire season. A pass can be a fluke, a game can be a fluke, but an entire season,

and postseason to the NFCC cannot be a fluke. It takes too much skill to stretch it out for that long.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

 

[Going Commando]

It makes me happy that you guys are coming around on Haskins.  He's a special prospect and we've got a future worth looking forward to now.  Still can't believe he just fell into our hands on draft day.  The league is so terrible at drafting QBs.

 

People also listen to Chris Cooley way too ****ing much.  I know it was his take that poisoned the fan base to Haskins.

 

I hope you guys who frequent the draft thread will also trust me in the future when I say the grass is greener mentality about future draft classes, and especially future QB classes, is a fallacy and a waste of time and it motivates paying opportunity cost.  And there is usually a true stud QB in every class plus a couple who are good enough to win with as a starter.

 

Re: Rosen, he's got a big time arm and he's aggressive and has the playmaker's gene.  He can see the next level throws and get the ball there.  If he'd have ended up in better situations, he could have become a good NFL QB.  I think he got damaged by his time in Arizona.

 

But he's also just not as good as Haskins.  He's not as smart.  He's not as strong or athletic.  He's lazier and softer than Haskins, and he's not nearly the same leader.  Haskins has the aura of being able to lead by example and he is a true workhorse.  Rosen was never even close to as good at UCLA as Haskins was at Ohio State.  It was always some flashes of brilliance followed by setbacks and shaky play whereas that Ohio State offense eventually became a freaking machine with Haskins running it.  Just effortless, relentless chains moving plus big plays coming with frequency that showed off special instincts and aggression.  Black quarterbacks have to be twice as good and productive as white quarterbacks to get the same NFL consideration as them.

[Llevron]

All of that is true

[Going Commando]

14 minutes ago, Llevron said:

All of that is true

 

It was a revelation for me when I realized black QB prospects were paying a production and achievement tax.  Take away half their awards, touchdowns, and wins, and then you can start understanding things like Mitch Trubisky getting picked 2 and DeShaun Watson getting picked 12, Josh Allen getting picked 7 and LaMar Jackson getting picked 32, and Daniel Jones getting picked 6 and Haskins getting picked 15.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Trubisky over Watson still boggles the mind.

[Going Commando]

46 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Trubisky over Watson still boggles the mind.

 

The point I was trying to make is not that him and Allen and Jones weren't good prospects, but that they got a completely fair and perhaps even favorable look at their potential.  They got assessed purely on their strengths and weaknesses, and their teams overlooked all of the issues they had to assume they could get the best possible version out of these kids.

 

Black QB prospects don't usually get that kind of clear-eyed look and benefit of the doubt.  They have to be so amazing on the field that you can't help but notice what a great prospect they are.  And a personal connection to the new head coach also helps...

 

The bias about QBs is deep seated.  I too have had it ruin my judgement in the past.  2011 comes to mind.  Cam Newton taught me an important lesson though.  Kudos to Carolina for not repeating the pattern and picking Gabbert over the far better and more accomplished black QB.

[PCS]

Well. My own in depth analysis of the young man,(after watching play this preseason),is a bit complex but I'll share it anyway. 

 

*

 

 

 

I like this kid. Think he'll do well. 

 

 

 

[dyst]

Its the same reason why Sam Bradford kept getting big money contracts and flipped for high draft picks. Owners just couldn’t fathom that maybe he wasn’t that good.

 

WTF did Jimmy Garappolo ever do to get that contract? Dak has certainly outplayed him and yet there are questions about Dak getting a new contract.

 

With that said, this varies by position.

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I figured this goes here best since we've talked about the subject here and there is some overlap with Haskins.  O'Connell featured heavily in today's MMQ.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/09/02/nfl-cuts-trades-waiver-claims-texans-laremy-tunsil-bill-obrien-seahawks-jadeveon-clowney?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_medium=social

KEVIN O’CONNELL ON THE RISE

Within the next few weeks, there will inevitably be a few fan bases looking at which coaches might be hot candidates for head coaching jobs come January. One to watch now: Redskins offensive coordinator Kevin O’Connell.

The 34-year-old is only in his fifth year of coaching, but he has ascended quickly under Jay Gruden, going from QBs coach in 2017, to passing-game coordinator last year, to offensive coordinator this year. He has drawn internal comparisons to the last young coach that Gruden has empowered like this—Sean McVay, who was promoted to OC when Gruden got the job, then given play-calling in 2015.

O’Connell’s rise is part of a larger trend across the NFL to fast-track former players in the coaching ranks. Titans coach Mike Vrabel became a head coach after seven years as an assistant (three at Ohio State, four with the Texans); Kellen Moore is offensive coordinator in his second year as a coach in Dallas; Byron Leftwich is Tampa’s OC in his third year of coaching; and Jerod Mayo was calling plays for the Patriots defense this summer, his first on the sideline.

 

...O’Connell started with Ryan’s old defensive, Mike Pettine, in Cleveland in 2015. He then latched on with the Niners in 2016 under Chip Kelly, before going to DC two years ago. But really, what Ryan joked about was happening even when he was a player—and the education continued in ’15 with the Browns, where he got Josh McCown (himself a high school coach) as a valuable sounding board on everything from practice drills to running meetings.

 

“That was huge for me,” O’Connell says. “I still talk to him, I still would rely on him, just as far as bouncing things off him, talking to him in the offseasons, all those things. And then obviously, coming here with Kirk [Cousins] and Alex [Smith] and Colt [McCoy] in the room, veteran guys that you could push the envelope and try to keep your meetings on the higher end of the IQ scale from a football standpoint.”

 

This year, the experience has been a little different, with first-round rookie Dwayne Haskins in the room. And while Haskins has been eager to learn, it’s been a new challenge for O’Connell. It’s also one with big-time upside—should Haskins develop quickly, that’ll only do more to bolster O’Connell’s already-on-the-rise reputation.

 

O’Connell was quick to credit Gruden, still the play-caller and designer of the Redskins offense, for the growing perception that he’ll go far in the coaching ranks. But his time is coming, just like Vrabel’s was a few years back.

“Looking at those guys, the Mike Vrabels, the Kellen Moores, guys that have played and transitioned into coaching, I think it takes a certain mindset,” he says. “Not all players are meant to transition to coaching. You gotta be really willing to roll up your sleeves and work, and sometimes maybe not have the jobs right off the bat that you particularly want. … You really have to make sure it’s something you wanna do.”

 

It didn’t take long for O’Connell to come to that realization. And probably won’t take too much longer before we see him with a team of his own.

[Conn]

Lot of fluff in that article, not a lot of substance.

 

Other than maybe Kelly in SF (and his failure in the NFL suggests he wasn't nearly the innovative genius some hoped--though I'll allow that he could have passed along some new ideas to KOC) he hasn't even spent time around offensive geniuses the way McVay and his little coaching tree did. His main influence has been Jay....yay. 

 

There's nothing in that article that makes me any more positive that the buzz around KOC as the next hot playcaller/play designer is genuine--it reminds me of all the false hype around Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown being respected geniuses around the league, and just not allowed enough say here. Yeah right. 

 

Let's see if KOC ever gets Gruden to allow him to call the plays, first. Rather than just helping with the gameplanning. Do we know if KOC is even allowed to design plays to contribute to the offensive scheme? 

 

The best I can rationally hope for with O'Connell right now is that he'll be a positive influence in Haskins' development. To me that is a potentially realistic hope, given his extensive experience with QB's, that maybe he can turn out to be a young QB guru, which is valuable in it's own right--though the guys he's spent time around, while smart, are nothing special. 

[Monkskins]

For what its worth, If it takes Haskins a long time to play this year if we are terrible....From a source who hnags out with Jay Gruden, He thinks Haskins SUCKS(I don't think he does).  For what its worth the source also said He preferred McCoy over Cousins???  Not to confident in Jay's QB IQ based off of the latter QB's.

[Rex Tomb]

26 minutes ago, Monkskins said:

For what its worth, If it takes Haskins a long time to play this year if we are terrible....From a source who hnags out with Jay Gruden, He thinks Haskins SUCKS(I don't think he does).  For what its worth the source also said He preferred McCoy over Cousins???  Not to confident in Jay's QB IQ based off of the latter QB's.

If Gruden truly thinks Haskins sucks, then he needs to be out of here yesterday.  I think this could be rumor.

[RandyHolt]

Probably something lost in communication.

 

Jay at risk of being fired thinks IT sucks that Haskins is so raw / not ready. Not that Haskins sucks.

 

Jay is still the coach most likely to be fired first this year. Little do the Vegas folk know, Bruce has NO one that wants that terrible job. Our org is so ****ed up the teams best chance of not being overrun by out of country fans, and Jay keeping his job, is actually playing Haskins.

 

This season could get ugly early. 

[Going Commando]

Or it's probably a load of ****.

[bh32]

I don't know why everyone thinks Jay is gonna be fired..Wasn't there a rumor that he is Snyders new drinking buddy? If the rumor is true then i think Bruce is more likely to be fired.

[wit33]

39 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Probably something lost in communication.

 

Jay at risk of being fired thinks IT sucks that Haskins is so raw / not ready. Not that Haskins sucks.

 

Jay is still the coach most likely to be fired first this year. Little do the Vegas folk know, Bruce has NO one that wants that terrible job. Our org is so ****ed up the teams best chance of not being overrun by out of country fans, and Jay keeping his job, is actually playing Haskins.

 

This season could get ugly early. 

 

Remember the Raiders got The brother of Jay. 

 

Money and personnel control is all that a new coach wants, the Skins have proven to give both to coaches. If situation presents itself that a new coach is needed, Snyder can get whoever. 

[RandyHolt]

51 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Remember the Raiders got The brother of Jay. 

 

Money and personnel control is all that a new coach wants, the Skins have proven to give both to coaches. If situation presents itself that a new coach is needed, Snyder can get whoever. 

 

Which recent coach made personnel choices here... Gibbs?  

 

I heard reports last year that Bruce was making game day lineup decisions for our defense.  We signed Alex Smith but didn't tell Doug Williams.  is he still in charge of replay calls?  Dan met with 1 player predraft. Guess who. When Zorn was hired he didn't even apply to be the head coach. Few want to come here without a Brinks. Book it. Just look at our stadium overrun on game days.  Bruce fully entrenched in an unknown role with no named GM. The new QB has already been chosen for the new coach. Our best player and team captain is on strike. We are fresh still from fumbling away Cousins (for better or worse TBD). I think we have the worse PR image, AND PR dept in the league.

 

The Browns have passed us.   I rest my case.

 

The org has never been a worse landing place for a head coach.  Throwing money at problems rarely works otherwise all our free agents Dan "bought" in would have led to a playoff win in 14 years.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

27 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Which recent coach made personnel choices here... Gibbs? 

 

 

Shanahan did.

[RandyHolt]

10 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Shanahan did.

 

i thought it was documented that Dan made his QB choice for him??

Shanahan in control was a false promise IMO. I may be wrong. If I am, Shanahan deserved to be fired for refusing to draft a QB and then burn 5 picks on 2 in the same draft.

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

i thought it was documented that Dan made his QB choice for him??

Shanahan in control was a false promise IMO. I may be wrong. If I am, Shanahan deserved to be fired for refusing to draft a QB and then burn 5 picks on 2 in the same draft.

 

 

 

Shanahan spent every opportunity telling the press that he alone was in charge of the personnel decisions, and is on record in the press as saying Griffin was his choice, Snyder only signed off on the trade package offered to the Rams.

 

It wasn't until he was terminated that he started alluding to not quite, really, actually having the say-so he claimed he did, and every bad decision made was really due to Snyder and Allen's 'insistence" or some word like that.

[RandyHolt]

I have long thought that taking Cousins right after Griffin was all the proof I needed to see.

 

Using read: losing so many picks on 3, only to burn another on a QB in the same draft - pointed to spite, or Mike taking the QB he really wanted.