FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[clskinsfan]

Haskins was fine for his first taste of NFL action. It is a huge step up in speed and athleticism. Even playing in the division he did in college. The picks are what they are. Learning experiences. Nothing more. We saw what we needed to see from him. The arm we all loved in college. The poise and smarts were also evident. I know a lot are complaining about Haskins foot work in the game. But his foot work was light years better in his first pro game than any college film I ever watched of the guy. That tells me he has been coached. And he has made adjustments and listened to that coaching. He is going to be a good one, maybe even great. It is just going to take a little time.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

This play and the one where he rolled right are the ones that clearly separate his ability from any QB we've had here for decades.

 

Being able to elude the rush or break tackles is one thing but keeping your eyes upfield and throwing on the run accurately is next level, that's the stuff that kills defenses.

 

I mean this all in fun.  But don't jinx the dude.  😀  If I could have a dollar for the this dude can do things we haven't seen in so long about each of the previous 3 young QBs I'd be a rich man.   Campbell is now sort of redefined by some as a bum and that he was always seen that way but at the beginning there was a lot of excitement about his arm, personality, decent mobility for his size.  Ditto complements about the next two young QBs for different reasons.  None of those ended well.

 

I think if Haskins ends up the goods it would be a minor miracle (nothing to do with the player) factoring our history at that position.   If I recall the last first round QB we drafted that turned out to be the good was like 50 years ago?  I recall the power rankings coming out from NFL Network where the dude who gave the Redskins a low ranking said QB-Washington Redskins do I need to say more -- do we really think that's going to work out?

 

If Baker works out for the Browns I think we might leapfrog them as the most cursed franchise at the Qb position.  I got my fingers crossed for Dwayne and hope he's the goods because boy would that IMO turn this franchise's luck around.  😀

[Skinsinparadise]

I listened to Hoffman early this morning boy what a bleak picture he paints at QB.  And he says all the time his views are colored by what he hears from people at Redskins Park.

 

In short, he said every QB is having a poor camp.  Haskins has an excuse since he's learning.  But Colt and Keenum just simply might not be very good.   And he thinks there is a shot that Colt could lose his grip on the starting job because he continues to throw a lot of picks in camp.

 

The good news is though he's heard good things about other guys at other positions.  But he thinks it could be a rough season at QB. 

[Veryoldschool]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for the Dan - Haskins stuff.  My theory that there is a lot of grey in that story.   I don't really care because to me its irrelevant.   My best guess based on all the narratives is Dan did indeed make it clear he wanted Haskins but he didn't force the issue and Doug backed him on liking Haskins.  Jay, Kyle, etc liked Haskins as well but didn't love him where they wanted to use the 15th pick on him.  They really really liked Sweat  So when they ended up with both, everyone was happy.  I could be totally wrong but that's my best guess piecing together some narratives including from Keim who typically is very conservative sharing gossip.

 

While Dan IMO is a bad owner.  I don't think he's a total dolt.  And I'd think he'd have to be a dolt to insist that Haskins start.  It's a lose lose for him.  He'd want Haskins to look good when he plays.  He gains little to risk otherwise.  Also, if you start Haskins right away what else can fans look forward to if he gets off to a rough start?  Having Haskins sit on the bench for a bit helps build some anticipation and story lines into the season.

 

My point is I have no idea where Dan is on this or not.  But I am not with the logic that if Haskins was really Dan's guy in a big way then he's matured if Haskins ends up sitting.  The reason being is if I ran with the Dan narrative and I were him I wouldn't want to start Haskins either right away -- its a risk on the PR side, too.   I get the lets get people in the seats argument but I think that would be temporary at best if Haskins started and struggled.  So Dan I think would really have to be a moron to push the envelope on Haskins because I think it's a loser's bet for him no matter what angle.  Unless the coaching staff felt Haskins was really ready. 

 

That's my long winded way of saying is I got no idea how hard or not Dan pushed Haskins.  Maybe he did.  Maybe he didn't.  I don't think we have any evidence to rule it in or out.  There are narratives that lead to both thoughts.   But if I played with worse case scenario that Dan pushed Haskins -- I still would see him as no threat to push Haskins to start because IMO it wouldn't serve any purpose for him -- it would if anything more likely backfire.  That's why I see Dan really irrelevant as to Haskins at the moment.  As long as Dan stays away for wanting to hang out with Haskins ala Portis, RG3, etc -- I think were safe from Dan with Haskins.

 

Heck even Cerrato in an interview months back while admitting that Dan did interfere with personnel while he was there and it was up to the scouts to convince Dan he was wrong -- at the same time he said that Dan didn't interfere as for playing time for players.  He cited how he was eager to start Sean Taylor but Gregg told him to be patient and wait and Dan did. 

 

If Haskins ends up good Snyder had nothing to do with the pick whereas if Haskins is bust city then I'll feel certain Dan sent in the pick while others guys in the room were saying gee I don't know, we only have 1 season of this kid and I'm not really feeling it.

[JSSkinz]

 

 

 

1

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I mean this all in fun.  But don't jinx the dude.  😀  If I could have a dollar for the this dude can do things we haven't seen in so long about each of the previous 3 young QBs I'd be a rich man.   

I hear you but based on everything I heard throughout the offseason I had very low expectations for him on Thursday but was pleasantly surprised with the end result.

 

When it comes to what I said in my post I can't think of any QB we've had here in quite some time that can elude pass rush, get outside the pocket, and hit WR's accurately downfield.  It sounds simple but not so much for Redskins QB's of the past.

 

RG3 could elude WR's but he bailed and ran, Kirk had no pocket presence, and IMO every QB we've had since the glory years was average to bad except for B Johnson and he definitely doesn't have that skill set.

 

What I'm really excited to see is my man Colt start next week.😀

 

[Warhead36]

My big fear regarding Haskins is that, because we'll likely suck this year, that means we have a new coach which means he'll have to learn an entirely new offense, and thus begins another Jason Campbell cycle.  Unless we luck into a Sean McVay or Matt Nagy but that seems unlikely.

[Skinsinparadise]

@JSSkinz  I think you are picking on the wrong QB as for pocket presence thought he other one needs to stop fumbling but both have that issue.  😀   And I used to worship RG3 so don't mean to pound on the dude. 😀 Since Kirk is gone then I consider it a failure on that front.  And I know his name can open up a hornets nest.  RG3, too.  Campbell maybe not as much, I guess enough time has past by about him.   Brad Johnson to me wasn't the best QB here by a long shot IMO.  But leaving that point aside, he wasn't anything special IMO.   We've not had that first tier elite QB I think since Sonny.  This team doesn't do QB well for the most part.   Even Theismann IMO was good but not special. 

 

As for Haskins, I've defended him here from some critics for his first game performance.  I liked more than I didn't like.  But I am not going as far as I've seen things that I haven't seen from others.  But that's me.  So to each their own. 

 

Watching most of his Ohio State games, I am not totally at ease that the dude has great pocket presence -- based on a few flashes on Thursday. Or maybe a better way to put it is I have some concerns about Haskins's accuracy when he is pushed out of the pocket versus designed roll outs.  As for his flashes, I talked about that on the draft thread months back which is Haskins had flashes of overcoming his supposed shortcomings.  So it was hard for me to deduce whether that meant its just as it looks which is every now and then he does something well that he can often struggle with or the flashes are a harbinger of mastering this stuff in time.  I don't know.  But yeah as I pointed (among others) out he certainly has some strengths to build off on.   My point is we've seen flashes from all three previous young QBs.  RG3 arguably had an even stronger arm than Haskins.  Campbell had a strong arm, too.  Kirk made a ton of rolling pocket boot type of plays like Haskins first completed pass -- even going way back to his rookie start ironically against Cleveland.

 

To me, the issue with the QBs who failed here hasn't been talent.  And I can go back further on that to Shuler and Ramsey, etc.  The issue IMO has been more about quickly reading defenses and picking them apart like the great QBs in the league routinely do.   Arians gets into a point in his book about grooming QBs saying that he's worked with and seen many talented QBs who have failed.  One key difference he finds between failing and succeeding is their ability to dissect a defense quickly and understand what they are trying to do to them.   And he emphasizes the word "quickly" because he goes if you give just about any QB time they can figure it out.   He goes on that talking to defensive coordinators, they spend their nights figuring out ways to trap QBs by disguising coverage to ultimate force incompletes and picks.  Based on what we saw on Thursday, my take of camp when i was there, the beat guys take of camp -- Haskins still has ways to go on this front.  I've taken it on the chin at different times for having all of our young QB's back.  And I recall the arguments for most of them very well.   I'll likely continue to have Haskins' back, too.   But I am a bit cautious about my optimism this time.  Maybe I've gotten burned too much that I am afraid to fully buy in. 😀  

[bakedtater1]

27 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

My big fear regarding Haskins is that, because we'll likely suck this year, that means we have a new coach which means he'll have to learn an entirely new offense, and thus begins another Jason Campbell cycle.  Unless we luck into a Sean McVay or Matt Nagy but that seems unlikely.

That's where we nip it in the butt now and extend gruden even longer..if we suck because of obvious o line and unstable qb play gruden better not be fired!!

Even if we go(sorry to turn this into a coach topic)3-13 this year I want gruden back..even if we only go .500 the following year I want gruden back..if haskins ain't getting it by years end ya gotta go with him week 1 starter in 2020 if by week 5 he ain't got it maybe go a different route at qb...gruden needs to stick around

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

If Haskins ends up good Snyder had nothing to do with the pick whereas if Haskins is bust city then I'll feel certain Dan sent in the pick while others guys in the room were saying gee I don't know, we only have 1 season of this kid and I'm not really feeling it.

Dan certainly has the reverse Midas touch with QBs.  🙄  Heck and that's not even factoring the deals that didn't happen.  The story about how Dan fell in love with Brady Quinn and the scouts had to work for a week to talk him out of his infatuation.  The failed attempt to trade for Sanchez.    I don't think there can be a dude with worst instincts about the position than him.  In all of the narratives, there isn't one that disputes that Dan really really liked Haskins.  The only question is did he push that pick to happen.   I try to forget that when I watch Haskins because anything that seems to have Dan's stamp of approval at QB seems to go south.  On that note, Chris Russell said today that he heard that Dan behind the scenes has been convinced that Haskins isn't ready to start yet. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

 

[JSSkinz]

Colt hurt again, just walked off the practice field, this poor guy can't get right.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Colt hurt again, just walked off the practice field, this poor guy can't get right.

 

I don't think that highly about Colt the QB.  But he seems like a great guy.  So feel bad for the dude but he can't seem to stay healthy.  But heck when you look at him, I don't find it that surprising.  He has a slight build.  I don't think a body build safeguards you from injury (Cam for example gets banged up, Wentz is a big dude too).  But I do like a stockier build for a QB than Colt.  

[JSSkinz]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'll likely continue to have Haskins' back, too.   But I am a bit cautious about my optimism this time.  Maybe I've gotten burned too much that I am afraid to fully buy in. 😀  

I'm with ya, I don't trust any rookies but I really expected him to be a mess based on the reports of his rawness and inexperience.

 

I think he showed some flashes of things that can't be taught which is also good but trust me I'm not delusional, the odds are against him and I wouldn't put my paycheck on the fact he will be successful.

 

 

[JaxJoe]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think that highly about Colt the QB.  But he seems like a great guy.  So feel bad for the dude but he can't seem to stay healthy.  But heck when you look at him, I don't find it that surprising.  He has a slight build.  I don't think a body build safeguards you from injury (Cam for example gets banged up, Wentz is a big dude too).  But I do like a stockier build for a QB than Colt.  

Our porous patchwork of an offensive line isn’t much a help neither. 

[JSSkinz]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think that highly about Colt the QB.  But he seems like a great guy.  So feel bad for the dude but he can't seem to stay healthy.  But heck when you look at him, I don't find it that surprising.  He has a slight build.  I don't think a body build safeguards you from injury (Cam for example gets banged up, Wentz is a big dude too).  But I do like a stockier build for a QB than Colt.  

Colt is like the Redskins version of Rudy, I joke about him leading this team but I'm a sucker for the underdog.

[JaxJoe]

2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I'm with ya, I don't trust any rookies but I really expected him to be a mess based on the reports of his rawness and inexperience.

 

I think he showed some flashes of things that can't be taught which is also good but trust me I'm not delusional, the odds are against him and I wouldn't put my paycheck on the fact he will be successful.

 

 

Haskin’s PFF grade was respectable. I’d sure like to see Haskins play a few series with the starters. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_Redskins/status/1121596409780817920

[Burgold]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think that highly about Colt the QB.  But he seems like a great guy.  So feel bad for the dude but he can't seem to stay healthy.  But heck when you look at him, I don't find it that surprising.  He has a slight build.  I don't think a body build safeguards you from injury (Cam for example gets banged up, Wentz is a big dude too).  But I do like a stockier build for a QB than Colt.  

I don't know if he'll get the chance or would want to, but I imagine that Colt would make a pretty good QB coach or OC one day. He knows what to do his body just can't it done (arm strength/ability to stay healthy)

[Malapropismic Depository]

I guess whoever starts the 3rd preseason game, everybody is going to read into that as opening day starter.

That may be the case. But not necessarily.

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Colt is like the Redskins version of Rudy, I joke about him leading this team but I'm a sucker for the underdog.

 

Yeah in some interviews he comes off so soft spoken and humble it almost feels like he's going to break in tears for joy about getting the chance to play in the NFL.  Everyone says he's a great guy. 

 

I was far from infatuated with Alex Smith's play last season but like Colt i loved the dude.  But I do think if you have a QB who is more or less mediocre as for making plays -- that is, they don't throw for many TDs and or make big plays, etc.  Then the Alex model is a must to win.   That is, if your QB isn't the prime reason why you are winning the game then they can't be losing the game for the team either.  Because if you have a good running game and defense -- then a QB who doesn't make mistakes has value because they don't spoil the fun of the units that are leading the way.

 

With Colt, IMO he doesn't make enough plays to warrant all the turnovers.  I'd much rather have a 35 TD-13 INT guy then a 18 TD  7 INT guy.  But give me a 18 TD-7INT guy over a 23TD-23INT any day of the week.  

10 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I guess whoever starts the 3rd preseason game, everybody is going to read into that as opening day starter.

That may be the case. But not necessarily.

 

Pun intended?  😀  Yeah am thinking again it might be Case. 

30 minutes ago, JaxJoe said:

Our porous patchwork of an offensive line isn’t much a help neither. 

 

Agree as for today but he's played with decent O lines before.  

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, JaxJoe said:

Haskin’s PFF grade was respectable. I’d sure like to see Haskins play a few series with the starters. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_Redskins/status/1121596409780817920

 

Me, too.  I'd give Haskins heavy reps in the preseason.   I presume the starter is going to play a lot in the third game (Case, Colt?) so maybe the best shot to get him a lot of playing time is this Thursday. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Me, too.  I'd give Haskins heavy reps in the preseason.   I presume the starter is going to play a lot in the third game (Case, Colt?) so maybe the best shot to get him a lot of playing time is this Thursday. 

 

I have a feeling Colt starts Thursday. Then Haskins.

The new guy we signed may not be ready by Thursday, so maybe Haskins finishes the game ?

[Llevron]

It’s going to be a lot more serious of a competition if colt is for real hurt. I don’t think anyone has any intention of starting Has cause of his draft status. Matter of fact the problems on the line and his draft status may be a reason NOT to play him..... but if we can’t even get McCoy to start the season then he’s going to have to be a serious option. 

 

Not it sure how I feel about that. I don’t want Has taking those hits. After the last 5 years anytime I see our QB hit the ground I hold my breath 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I have a feeling Colt starts Thursday. Then Haskins.

The new guy we signed may not be ready by Thursday, so maybe Haskins finishes the game ?

 

If Colt got banged up some in practice I wonder.  But agree that Haskins is unlikely going to start with the 1's.