FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[drowland]

13 hours ago, skinsfan93 said:

Everyone realizes that Colt isn’t the most talented QB on the roster but he knows the system well. But you can’t tell me that Case is more talented. He just happened to get an opportunity when Bradford went down and he came in on a talented team and took them one game away from the Superbowl. There’s a reason Elway decided to go with Flacco instead of Case and that’s because he is limited. 

 

Since his days on Cleveland Colthe never got a chance to start but he knows this system and I like his gunslinger attitude. He’s gonna make mistakes but he will be decisive in his throws and we can win some games with him till Haskins is ready. Don’t you guys remember when Colt would come into a game and the offense would actually be able to move the ball? I remember one particular game against the Cowboys. 

 

If Colt is our day one starter I’m good with it as he will be an adequate stopgap. 

 

Yeah, Colt's good at providing a spark off the bench and giving you a couple good starts.  Then defenses adjust by stacking the box against the run and crowding the short to intermediate throwing lanes because they don't respect his arm.  That's why Paul Richardson's comments on Colt seemed lukewarm.  You're wasting speed with him as your QB and Colt tends to lead his WRs into big hits.  If the Skin had a bunch of big physical WRs that can win those battles, ala Larry Fitzgerald, then fine.  But they don't, at least not proven.  That's why Colt's best served as a backup, not a starter.   

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

1 hour ago, drowland said:

 

Yeah, Colt's good at providing a spark off the bench and giving you a couple good starts.  Then defenses adjust by stacking the box against the run and crowding the short to intermediate throwing lanes because they don't respect his arm.  That's why Paul Richardson's comments on Colt seemed lukewarm.  You're wasting speed with him as your QB and Colt tends to lead his WRs into big hits.  If the Skin had a bunch of big physical WRs that can win those battles, ala Larry Fitzgerald, then fine.  But they don't, at least not proven.  That's why Colt's best served as a backup, not a starter.   

Disagree..you can't stack the box with Reed at TE. Maybe when Reed comes out but that leaves Thompson to account for for the flat and they can't cover that. If both are in its pick your poison. If Thomspon and Guice are in the backfield together..wow. *I* think the weapons we have will shred a stacked box D and Colt knows the playbook and can audible to the best play better than the other two. The weak link is the O Line and Callahan has shown he can make gold outa lead. The first 3 games will tell so we don't have long to wait.

[drowland]

8 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Disagree..you can't stack the box with Reed at TE. Maybe when Reed comes out but that leaves Thompson to account for for the flat and they can't cover that. If both are in its pick your poison. If Thomspon and Guice are in the backfield together..wow. *I* think the weapons we have will shred a stacked box D and Colt knows the playbook and can audible to the best play better than the other two. The weak link is the O Line and Callahan has shown he can make gold outa lead. The first 3 games will tell so we don't have long to wait.

 

Agree to Disagree...teams are going with more 4-2-5 base defense now that counteracts that and even if you go with traditional offensive sets with 2 backs they can bring in a SAM LB.  LBs are smaller and quicker and can cover those short/intermediate routes.  You have to create space with your WRs and if the defense doesn't respect your QBs ability to stretch the field you're not going to get it.  

[Reaper Skins]

Colt's knowledge of the playbook means the offense can run more efficiently.  Coaches use this to get a better read on how the other offensive players are doing. It's harder to get a baseline on your other players if your using a QB who may or may not be operating the playcalls correctly.

 

If your trying to decide roster cuts, it makes sense to use Colt.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, drowland said:

 

Yeah, Colt's good at providing a spark off the bench and giving you a couple good starts.  Then defenses adjust by stacking the box against the run and crowding the short to intermediate throwing lanes because they don't respect his arm.  That's why Paul Richardson's comments on Colt seemed lukewarm.  You're wasting speed with him as your QB and Colt tends to lead his WRs into big hits.  If the Skin had a bunch of big physical WRs that can win those battles, ala Larry Fitzgerald, then fine.  But they don't, at least not proven.  That's why Colt's best served as a backup, not a starter.   

 

If the argument is Colt being a franchise QB, then there’s no debate, as there’s zero evidence to support such a claim. 

 

Stretching the field will require timing and anticipation for McCoy due to his arm strength, but with effective play design and QB system awareness it can take place. Also, the west coast system can help to get the best out of a player like Colt or Keenum. With that said, there’s no argument Colts limitations make it more difficult to scheme things up at times, but hopefully his overall system knowledge offsets that enough. 

 

Want to be in best position to get to 9-10 wins and play meaningful games to the end, and if Colt provides the best shot then let’s roll with it. 

[drowland]

26 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

If the argument is Colt being a franchise QB, then there’s no debate, as there’s zero evidence to support such a claim. 

 

Stretching the field will require timing and anticipation for McCoy due to his arm strength, but with effective play design and QB system awareness it can take place. Also, the west coast system can help to get the best out of a player like Colt or Keenum. With that said, there’s no argument Colts limitations make it more difficult to scheme things up at times, but hopefully his overall system knowledge offsets that enough. 

 

Want to be in best position to get to 9-10 wins and play meaningful games to the end, and if Colt provides the best shot then let’s roll with it. 

 

And I'm saying he doesn't give us a shot to win 9-10 games.  Which let's face it, he's not a QB who will last 16 games anyway.  If he did I'd put our record at 5-11.  The NFL is set up for QBs to own the intermediate to deep middle portion of the field and Colt can't do it consistently.  Case is limited but he's shown more in his career that he can make those throws.  So for Jay this QB derby is more pick your poison then anything else.  Start good with Colt and watch the offense stall or go with Case's struggles and hope it improves.  

[NickyJ]

16 hours ago, skinsfan93 said:

Since his days on Cleveland Colthe never got a chance to start but he knows this system and I like his gunslinger attitude. He’s gonna make mistakes but he will be decisive in his throws and we can win some games with him till Haskins is ready. Don’t you guys remember when Colt would come into a game and the offense would actually be able to move the ball? I remember one particular game against the Cowboys.

Colt got several chances to start here: 2014 and last year. In all his chances here and in Cleveland, they ended with injuries. There's just no way you can build on, around, or next to an injury prone QB. He hasn't strung together 4 healthy games since 2011.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

11 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Colt got several chances to start here: 2014 and last year. In all his chances here and in Cleveland, they ended with injuries. There's just no way you can build on, around, or next to an injury prone QB. He hasn't strung together 4 healthy games since 2011.

Thank you, and this is especially  recurring theme with QB's in DC( well with the exception of Cousins ). Lets face it, Our QB's always get beat the F up & or injured which is another reason the more i watch Haskins the more I'm loving having this kid. He is massive. Looks like a tight end playing QB.  When Colt got the nod last year after Alex went down i really expected alot more, Yes he got hurt and thats not his fault but the fact we are even discussing a Old, often injured, career 2nd to 3rd string back up starting the year for us is crazy talk, to me at least.

 

 

[skinzplay]

I don't think the team is trying to build around Colt, hoss. He, like Keenum, would now be a transition QB.....hopefully until Haskins is ready to take over. The team isn' ta QB away from a SB-run, so there's no need to rush that kid into action. Let him sit, watch, learn, seek advice from Smith and the coaches; give him time to develop. I'm eager to see what he can do when he's ready. Colt knows the offense inside and out. I say roll with him with Keenum as a steady primary backup, which is essentially what he is. Lightning really struck for Keenum two seasons ago during that playoff run with Minnesota. I wish both he and Shurmur had stayed with the Vikes, for the sake of the Vikes.

[NickyJ]

50 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

I don't think the team is trying to build around Colt, hoss. He, like Keenum, would now be a transition QB.....hopefully until Haskins is ready to take over. The team isn' ta QB away from a SB-run, so there's no need to rush that kid into action. Let him sit, watch, learn, seek advice from Smith and the coaches; give him time to develop. I'm eager to see what he can do when he's ready. Colt knows the offense inside and out. I say roll with him with Keenum as a steady primary backup, which is essentially what he is. Lightning really struck for Keenum two seasons ago during that playoff run with Minnesota. I wish both he and Shurmur had stayed with the Vikes, for the sake of the Vikes.

So if McCoy is a temporary QB, why invest a whole 4 games in him before he goes on IR? What does knowledge of the offense do for someone in street clothes? Why not play the QB with the marginally higher ceiling (Keenum) and save McCoy the trouble of another concussion/broken whatever?

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

45 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

I don't think the team is trying to build around Colt, hoss. He, like Keenum, would now be a transition QB.....hopefully until Haskins is ready to take over. The team isn' ta QB away from a SB-run, so there's no need to rush that kid into action. Let him sit, watch, learn, seek advice from Smith and the coaches; give him time to develop. I'm eager to see what he can do when he's ready. Colt knows the offense inside and out. I say roll with him with Keenum as a steady primary backup, which is essentially what he is. Lightning really struck for Keenum two seasons ago during that playoff run with Minnesota. I wish both he and Shurmur had stayed with the Vikes, for the sake of the Vikes.

Listen you are old school like me, i see the Gary Clark avatar but sitting QB's on the bench so they can "learn" is granpa's football. Look at the Baker Mayfield fiasco last year, That kid should have started from week 1 just like Sam Darnold did.  In my honest opinion you hurt today's QB more by keeping them on the bench then starting them right away.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, drowland said:

 

And I'm saying he doesn't give us a shot to win 9-10 games.  Which let's face it, he's not a QB who will last 16 games anyway.  If he did I'd put our record at 5-11.  The NFL is set up for QBs to own the intermediate to deep middle portion of the field and Colt can't do it consistently.  Case is limited but he's shown more in his career that he can make those throws.  So for Jay this QB derby is more pick your poison then anything else.  Start good with Colt and watch the offense stall or go with Case's struggles and hope it improves.  

 

No doubt, I have zero fire power to support Colt leading team to 9-10 win next season, not denying this fact. Not sure where you’re with roster as a whole, but I believe defense has a shot to lead the team and running game will provide support. Wishful thinking, but having a QB with knowledge of the system and strong support special things can happen in the NFL. There’s a great deal of continuity and a brand that has developed. 

 

Example of some surprise playoff QBs over the years:

 

Jim Miller

Tyrod Taylor 

Kelly Holcomb

Chris Simms

Danny Kanell

Quincy Carter

Ty Detmer

Tim Tebow

Shaun King

 

Just saying there’s a chance is all. 

 

 

 

 

[NickyJ]

Just now, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Listen you are old school like me, i see the Gary Clark avatar but sitting QB's on the bench so they can "learn" is granpa's football. Look at the Baker Mayfield fiasco last year, That kid should have started from week 1 just like Sam Darnold did.  In my honest opinion you hurt today's QB more by keeping them on the bench then starting them right away.

I've got to disagree with you there. As has been rehashed many times, Haskins started one full season in college. He has little experience, and has seemingly left no impression on the coaches or spectators that he is the 2nd coming of Baker Mayfield. Behind a patchwork O-Line with little experience and a cannon of an arm, I'd want to avoid the pummeling that Patrick Ramsey took.

[Ghedrick]

10 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

No doubt, I have zero fire power to support Colt leading team to 9-10 win next season, not denying this fact. Not sure where you’re with roster as a whole, but I believe defense has a shot to lead the team and running game will provide support. Wishful thinking, but having a QB with knowledge of the system and strong support special things can happen in the NFL. There’s a great deal of continuity and a brand that has developed. 

 

Example of some surprise QBs over the years:

 

Jim Miller

Tyrod Taylor 

Kelly Holcomb

Chris Simms

Danny Kanell

Quincy Carter

Ty Detmer

Tim Tebow

Shaun King

 

Just saying there’s a chance is all. 

 

 

 

 

Hey great point look at the Cowgirls and Bears to see what good running game and defense can due for an average qb.If our running game and defense deliver this could be a 10 win team any three of these guys.They don't have to be Mahomes ,Brees or anything like that but Trubrisky.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[evmiii]

The Redskins run game is based on play action; without a threat down field it just doesn't work.  Unfortunately Colt just doesn't instill fear on the secondary.  He can be successful in the short term living underneath, but this is not a sustainable winning solution.  He and Case can be the bridge to Haskins, but the offense will open up with Haskins just because of his arm.  I'm sure he will make rookie mistakes, but I think the upside out ways the risk.  As soon as Haskins feels comfortable with the offense (play calling to execution) I say put him him in and start the future.  Don't rush him, as previously mentioned I don't think we are a QB away from the Super Bowl this year, but get him in as soon as possible and let him learn.  I think, for the first time in a long time, we are actually moving in the right direction.

[Malapropismic Depository]

8 minutes ago, evmiii said:

The Redskins run game is based on play action; without a threat down field it just doesn't work.  Unfortunately Colt just doesn't instill fear on the secondary.  He can be successful in the short term living underneath, but this is not a sustainable winning solution.

 

The long ball is certainly possible.

Richardson is a poor man's DJax and can go deep.

We also drafted speed in Harmon and some others can go deep.

Colt has the arm to throw it deep, it just floats more than other QB's. So if our receivers can adjust and battle it out for the ball, including Doctson's  and Sim's leaping ability, I think we can complete some long balls to keep the defense honest.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

I am so relieved that the team isn’t rushing Haskins to start. That shows maybe just maybe growth from the top (Snyder).

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Used "Colt" and "scorching hot pass" in the same sentence.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

The rookies huddled together near the sideline. Dwayne Haskins, the quarterback, and Terry McLaurin, the receiver, had known each other for years. They’d first played together at Ohio State and then, this offseason, the Washington Redskins drafted them in the first and third rounds, respectively. This summer, they became roommates and playbook study buddies. They diagramed plays on paper, awoke early, stayed up late and hijacked lunch break to quiz each other. Now, there was a problem.

 

The play before, McLaurin cut back on his route and Haskins ended up tossing deep down the left sideline to no one. On the field, Haskins shot out his left arm toward McLaurin, apparently telling the receiver he should’ve kept going. They were less arguing, more deciphering what went wrong. This was the chance to apply what they’d spent so much time discussing.

 

“We kind of tag-team [figuring out plays],” McLaurin said. “It really helps.”

 

...How players digest information best often traces back to how they primarily learned in school. Some scribble in notebooks, such as tackle Donald Penn and McLaurin, who calls himself "a really active learner.” Others prefer film on an iPad, such as offensive lineman Ereck Flowers or rookie wide receiver Kelvin Harmon. A few applied learners can’t execute until they’ve first walked through the play on the practice field, such as receiver Steven Sims...

 

“You’re coming in, you don’t know the system and you got to play,” Sims explained. “You’re going to get tired, and everything else plays an effect. … You got to pick [the playbook] up right now just so you can compete.”

Often, players and coaches describe Gruden’s offense as complicated. The concepts hue close to a West Coast, prostyle scheme, but what first-year players find tricky is not the plays themselves. It’s the volume of them.

 

Skill players from spread offenses in college only needed to memorize a numbered route tree. Now, their team runs several formations, and some plays can be called out of multiple formations. Sometimes, parts of a play, such as receivers’ routes or linemen’s blocking assignments, automatically change depending on the defense’s coverage or movement before the snap. The Redskins call those preplanned adjustments “conversions.”

 

...Penn called himself “old-school” and “a big note-taker.” He has three or four pages marked up with new verbiage. In his 13th season, Penn understands almost all the ideas, the trouble is just what to call them.

“I'm picking up the lingo pretty fast, I'm surprised,” Penn said on Sunday. “There was a cadence I messed up on twice [today], but I got it down.”

 

Players who don’t get many plays during practice compensate with what they call “mental reps.” Offensive lineman Jerald Foster and Sims, both undrafted free agents, stand next to teammates on the sideline and listen. When the call goes into the huddle, they test each other on what should happen next.

First-year players laughed at the concept of “off days” during camp. “Maybe they are for the old guys,” Martin said. Younger players spend hours reviewing their tape and playbook, where every wrinkle seems to have another wrinkle.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/08/06/how-new-redskins-learn-playbook/

[Vanguard]

Seems like Dwayne looked good out there today.

[MartinC]

6 hours ago, drowland said:

 

Agree to Disagree...teams are going with more 4-2-5 base defense now that counteracts that and even if you go with traditional offensive sets with 2 backs they can bring in a SAM LB.  LBs are smaller and quicker and can cover those short/intermediate routes.  You have to create space with your WRs and if the defense doesn't respect your QBs ability to stretch the field you're not going to get it.  

 

Whoever is at QB this year our offense will be based around the running game. We will look to run the ball, control the clock and use play action to get chunk plays. If teams want to line up against us with a 7 man box and an extra DB as their base D we will attempt to run them out of that.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

On 8/5/2019 at 4:14 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree but the O line can potentially unravel this.  For me I think the big wildcards right now are QB and O line.  I think the supporting cast might end up better than expected.  But if you can't pass block or run block well then it might not come together -- I am not saying that will be the case but I don't know. 

 

yeah, that's definitely the offense's kryptonite lol...I prefer to remain delusional, though, and imagine Trent coming back this month, Flowers playing rather well at LG, and Penn filling in nicely when either Trent or Moses gets dinged throughout the season as they tend to do.

[Vanguard]

I know it’s Cam.  But this briefly explains the type of learning curve Dwayne Haskins is up against.