FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Vanguard]

I actually want  Sweat to be that intimidator quarterbacks fear, he has a presence.  We have Jonathan Allen for that with the swagger and attitude, but I wouldn’t mind having one more.  Can’t have enough of those types on the defense.  Most great defenses have them, and that’s what I want them to be, a great defense.

[Malapropismic Depository]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I saw Flanagan in a lot and he alternated between full back and TE. Ditto whoever number 46 is.

 

 

46 on Offense is Parham...

Bet you saw him a lot more clearly than the others ; he's 6'8 😃

 

Thanks for all the updates !

[RandyHolt]

14 hours ago, Vanguard said:

I actually want  Sweat to be that intimidator quarterbacks fear, he has a presence.  We have Jonathan Allen for that with the swagger and attitude, but I wouldn’t mind having one more.  Can’t have enough of those types on the defense.  Most great defenses have them, and that’s what I want them to be, a great defense.

 

Re: Sweat you and me both.  I want the opposition sweating from the first snap; via an aggressive unpredictable defense. While dropping Sweat and Kerrigan into coverage is unpredictable, it makes it too easy for the QB. He will throw near those guys playing out of optimal position.

 

Defenders are by their nature, aggressive. It behooves a DC to unleash his guys occasionally, especially if he has many guys that are great individually, and not being used to their strengths to play along in the scheme (e.g. dropping Kerrigan into coverage).  That scheme better not be bend don't break for 16 straight weeks.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Alexa]

My question is are we keeping 3 Qb's?  Obviously Haskins is on the team.  Do Colt and Case stick around? I would probably say for this year they need to keep 3.

[redskinss]

7 minutes ago, Alexa said:

My question is are we keeping 3 Qb's?  Obviously Haskins is on the team.  Do Colt and Case stick around? I would probably say for this year they need to keep 3.

I think it depends on who wins the starting job.

If colt wins I think we gotta keep 3 as I dont believe Keenum would be available later in the year, but if Keenum wins I say we gamble and hope nobody picks up McCoy. 

 

But after our stage 4 disaster from last year it might not be a bad idea to just keep 3 on the roster.

[Malapropismic Depository]

I feel like if Colt wins the job at least for Game 1, there will be an ES revolt

[Renegade7]

57 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I feel like if Colt wins the job at least for Game 1, there will be an ES revolt

As there should be.

[Xameil]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

As there should be.

Even if he does win the starting job, he'll probably be injured by halftime of the first game...

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

As there should be.

 

Why? If he clearly wins the job it is what it is. If Haskins or Keenum clearly win the job then they get the start.

 

The problem is it's probably not that black and white. I will say that if Trent is still a holdout come week 1 the absolute best place for Haskins is on the bench wearing a t-shirt.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

Why? If he clearly wins the job it is what it is. If Haskins or Keenum clearly win the job then they get the start.

 

The problem is it's probably not that black and white. I will say that if Trent is still a holdout come week 1 the absolute best place for Haskins is on the bench wearing a t-shirt.

 

I'm betting the situation will have resolved itself by then.  I think the team (specifically Gruden and maybe Bruce) wants the issue over by Week 1.  I think Snyder is worried about tickets, and if LT is the biggest hurdle for getting Haskins (if he looks close enough to Keenum) on the field, then he'll want it resolved.

 

a) Geron Christian plays well enough to be an average LT.

b) Trent Williams rejoins the team and it's all moot

c) Geron is still a year away, Donald Penn gets signed and Trent gets traded to make room for Penn's contract.

 

 

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, Xameil said:

Even if he does win the starting job, he'll probably be injured by halftime of the first game...

Dont be so optimistic : /

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Why? If he clearly wins the job it is what it is. If Haskins or Keenum clearly win the job then they get the start.

 

The problem is it's probably not that black and white. I will say that if Trent is still a holdout come week 1 the absolute best place for Haskins is on the bench wearing a t-shirt.

 

Feel like hes last chance for a lot of people in this fan basen. If his problem is experience, give it to him.  Plenty of young QBs doing well, Baltimore stuck with their guy in a playoff loss with their super bowl winner on the bench.

[MartinC]

37 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Dont be so optimistic : /

 

Feel like hes last chance for a lot of people in this fan basen. If his problem is experience, give it to him.  Plenty of young QBs doing well, Baltimore stuck with their guy in a playoff loss with their super bowl winner on the bench.

 

 Jackson started the season on the bench though. So did Mayfield. 

 

Haskins should start if he shows he’s ready and wins the job. Whenever that is. No need to force it if Keenum or McCoy look better right now.

[PartyPosse]

I don't care if Haskins looks like he should be starting, this team is not ready to compete for a championship and I'd rather DH watch the game from the sidelines for at least until the bye just to get up to speed. There is nothing that substitutes the nuances of a game like an actual game. Forget practices or preseason games - this is where the speed catches up to a guy.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Fans want to know the starter right away, but it would be great to keep Philly guessing which one of 3 possibilities it may be, right up to the last possible minute.

[Skinsinparadise]

Sorry it took so long, got busy today with other stuff.  My take on what I saw Sunday at camp and camp in general -- if I repeat something from before, sorry.   I am too lazy to reread my prior posts on this.   😀 And again it's just my 2 cents.  I'll try to organize it in categories:

 

The QBs:

Haskins as I mentioned looked shaky on Friday, didn't really stand out on Saturday but was on fire Sunday.  As for the other 2 QBs, they didn't strike me that good or bad and frankly I paid more attention to Haskins. 

 

For Haskins looks like he's running RPOs in the mix of things -- hard to see from where I was whether it was an RPO play but whatever was driving the plays it resulted in Haskins taking off more than I expected.  Some plays Haskins just took off right from the get go.  I saw that every practice.  So that was a bit of a surprise to me.   I read before going to camp some say that Haskins looks faster than advertised.  To me I think it's yes and no.  Yes in that he seems quicker than you'd think when he's running for a gain.  No in that he doesn't look to my eyes that fast moving laterally in the pocket -- that's noticeable when you watch Keenum who to me is the opposite on that front.  Keenum isn't fast just taking the ball and running for a gain but he seems like he has quick feet moving laterally in the pocket.

 

Haskins kills it for the most part in QB drills -- rocket arm, quick release and is fairly accurate.  When you switch it up to 7 on 7 or 11 on 11, his accuracy isn't the same and his release slows down.  His accuracy is much stronger inside the numbers than outside the numbers.  I didn't think his feet were quick in the pocket -- not scary slow either but nothing special -- his lateral movement was to my eyes average to below average as to quickness.    But when he did QB keeps and just ran forward for a gain, he seemed quicker than what you'd expect.  He's not fast but his speed comes off in that context at least average.   

 

Haskins though was in another orbit on Sunday and in a good way.  He was on and off in the first red zone drill.   For all of those who hate the fade then you will be disappointed because it was a key pass they practiced in the red zone -- and all three QBs were hit and miss with it.  Keenum's attempts at it were often flat and wild and he didn't have much arc on the ball.  Colt's balls also needed more arc.  Haskins would under throw some of them and didn't have great touch on them.  But after those red zone drills, Haskins caught fire and was completing pass after pass including some nice intermediate out routes and even a nice fade pass -- and those weren't easy throws.  

 

My take on him is his accuracy is consistently good on short in routes -- slants, curls, shallow crossers, etc.  His deep ball is on and off -- his issue is under throwing them.  He had the same issue in college.   He can throw intermediate type passes with nice touch and can throw them hard if he wants to  in tight windows and that's where IMO he shines when he's on.   Haskins would run down the field after a nice completion and congratulate receivers who made big catches -- that was fun to watch.  I gather that's how he will roll when he plays in games, too. 

 

Alex Smith was around the QBs a lot.  I saw all 4 QBs travel in the bus together.  They had multiple buses for players.  So all the players didn't travel in just 1 or 2 buses like you see on game day.  I arrived at the hotel one time and on one bus arriving at the same time -- was all the QBs including Alex traveling together.  When they were running the red zone plays, Alex was on the field just feet away from the play -- observing.

 

O line:

They didn't look that hot but I wasn't paying much attention to it player to player.  I never saw the media watch practice with the fans on the sidelines (they are typically in their own spot removed from the fans) but Trevor Matich on Sunday was watching from the sidelines among the fans.  I was right next to him and he was citing his notes out-loud into his tape recorder right in front of me.  Matich knows the O line position because he played it.  He also talked to some fans nearby and was giving his take to them when they asked him what he thought:  among what he said -- he thought Flowers was a disaster.  His thing was he's not only playing poorly and had bad technique but he's so nonchalant and sloppy from play to play that it came off to him that he doesn't play with enough oomph and passion to play well.  His thought was you can't practice in that style and then just turn it on when the real games begin.   He didn't comment on Martin's play in practice but said he was impressed by Wes Martin's game tape.  He said on one play Geron Christian looked he was playing with roller skates on (in other words he was unimpressed).  Personally I didn't even realize Christian was practicing until he said that.

 

RBs

All seemed to look good.  Guice got some early reps and then was rested for the rest of the day.  But I loved what I saw in those limited snaps.  I talked about Guice in prior posts.  Peterson looked good, too.  I oddly kept running into Peterson at the hotel (more than any other player) that at the end of my time there I think he at least recognized me by face and said hi.  For a superstar-legend -- he's really cool with fans.  Plenty of Redskins players come off aloof around fans or would rather not interact.  But Peterson will make eye contact say hi to everyone from what I observed. 

 

They ran an exercise towards the end of practice on Sunday where they were trying to run a ball in about 3 yards from the goal line.  They were some serious tackling going on in that drill which was unique because typically I didn't see much tackling.  Perine carried the ball and was stuffed on the first try and the D line seemed to gloat about it.  Then they tried again and that time Perine made it over the goal line and Guice ran over to help them celebrate.

 

Guice to me by a mile is the personality on the offensive side.  Otherwise a lot of guys seem quiet.  Haskins has some personality and comes off like a really nice guy but he doesn't come off as naturally outgoing.  The guys on defense are the ones with more personality from what I observed. 

 

TEs

Flanagan was playing TE but sort of in a hybrid role where he played some FB.  He was in rotation a lot in Sunday's practice.  Jordan Reed looked great.  He looked fast, got open, etc.  He seemed nice to fans but a bit shy.  He signed one day for awhile but didn't really talk much.  He was staying on the same floor with me, I saw him a couple of times including he got a massage right by the elevator in my floor.  It was odd -- not sure why they did it there.  Vernon Davis looked decent, made some nice catches, had some drops, too.  Sprinkle as I mentioned was on fire on Sunday.  Aside from Haskins in my view he had the biggest day on Sunday.

 

Wrs.

I've been in the camp that the receivers will be better than expected.  That take to me was confirmed from what I saw.  McLaurin looked good, got open, played fast.  Sims was an animal.  He had one bad drop from what I recall but otherwise he was making the most highlight style catches.  I was really surprised to see him practice with the 3's in walk throughs.   Richardson made some plays.  I didn't notice Doctson as much in part because I wasn't looking for him -- he did make one really nice catch and he also dropped an easy pass right in front of my line of sight in a red zone drill.   Harmon made some nice catches.  Haskins seems to have good chemistry with both McLaurin and Harmon.  Harmon made one diving catch thrown by if I recall Keenum and Haskins ran down the field anyway to congratulate Harmon.    Harmon also is practicing with Haskins in the walk throughs with the 3's -- so I gather they are getting used to each other. 

 

Quinn was catching everything.  They put him in motion a lot.   He has sticky hands and gets open.  He doesn't seem particularly quick though in the open field.   Harmon played a little inside and also outside.  McLaurin was playing almost exclusively to the left.  The left often ends up being the X spot so that's Doctson's spot.  I found that interesting because beat guys keep saying he's going to play Z.   if so maybe they are getting him practice at both spots. 

 

Play calling:

Judging by what I saw:  

A.  They will run a lot

B.  They will also use the RBs in space, wheel routes, tosses, screens

C.  They might throw a ton of short out routes

D.  They will use multiple TE sets in the mix more than they had in the past -- 12 personnel, even 13 personnel.

E.  red zone plays that they were mostly practicing were quick slants, fades and screens.  

F. If its Haskins I gather we'd see heavy RPOs, quick 3 step throws and don't be shocked if he's on the move with some designed runs

G.  They had Quinn and Reed in motion a lot (similar to last year with Reed and Crowder)

H.  Reed looks like he's back to form so I can see him being the featured guy unlike last year

I.  Red zone plays in particular had multiple TE sets and that was true even for 7 versus 7 where there is no need to have a TE to block.   In those situations they even had Flanagan go out for a pass and he's more of a blocker than a pass catcher.  And they also threw a ton to Sprinkle.  So the stuff we've been saying about having multi dimensional TEs who are dual threats -- they seem at least in practice to be working to fix that.  

 

I've heard Jay complement McLaurin and Harmon multiple times as to their run blocking.  i don't recall if Sims is a good run blocker.  I know Doctson has become a decent run blocker.  My point is I can see them considering a real heavy run driven team with receivers and TEs on the field who can block and also present enough of a pass catching threat that they can keep defenses honest.  If defenses crowd the line of scrimmage to stop the run, then run an RPO to exploit that and don't be shy to have the QB run themselves in that mix to keep defenses on their toes.  That's how it all felt to me watching it.   I could be wrong but that's my best guess piecing it together the best I could. 

 

I got more than this but I figured my post is already too long.  😀

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I'm betting the situation will have resolved itself by then.  I think the team (specifically Gruden and maybe Bruce) wants the issue over by Week 1.  I think Snyder is worried about tickets, and if LT is the biggest hurdle for getting Haskins (if he looks close enough to Keenum) on the field, then he'll want it resolved.

 

a) Geron Christian plays well enough to be an average LT.

b) Trent Williams rejoins the team and it's all moot

c) Geron is still a year away, Donald Penn gets signed and Trent gets traded to make room for Penn's contract.

 

 

 

I can’t see Trent missing game checks either. But we will see.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I got more than this but I figured my post is already too long.  😀

 

 

That's great, thanks.

So who did you pass the baton to, when you left camp ?

We need some G. Christian surveillance.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

That's great, thanks.

So who did you pass the baton to, when you left camp ?

We need some G. Christian surveillance.

 

Someone should go. 😀   I got to admit being in the same hotel was a bit of a trip.  I was at camp 2 years ago and same hotel but didn't have the same experience where I ran into players as relentlessly.  I am gathering it was because this time I was on a high floor (last time I wasn't) and on the same floor as Bruce and some players.  So it seemed that every time I got on an elevator I would run into someone on and off the elevator.  But if anyone goes, the Omni would be my bet.  It's not cheap but its not crazy either expense wise or at least it wasn't when I booked it.

 

As I mentioned, it's kind of funny to go to the elevator and run into Bruce or in another case Jordan Reed getting a massage.  When I ran into Bruce the first time, I was messing with my phone and I hear some dude say hey its the Guice family (my kids were wearing Guice jerseys) and I just thought it was just a fan wanting to chat and then I look up and its Bruce.  I thought of giving him my list of grievances 😀 but instead I said hey I hope Guice is going to stay healthy, he agreed and then he asked where I was from and knew Florida some.   I am getting a coffee and run into Doug sitting in the lounge just chatting with fans, or wanting to get into the elevator but I didn't want to crowd Alex Smith and the people in there and told them I'd get the next one, etc.  Like I said I kept running into Peterson.  initially it was Bruce.   Alex Santos telling my daughter in the elevator that her shoe is untied then that spurs a conversation with him and my wife.  Always something popping up in the elevator and it was funny.  And i am the type not to start a conversation with any player because I figure not to bother them but stuff happens anyway.  

 

I don't ask for autographs myself.  But it's fun to watch kids (not just mine) chase them at camp.  And I can't help come out of that admiring the players who do sign because again its mostly for kids calling their names.  Most ignore them.  But some don't.  I don't blame those players who don't sign.   It's hot.  And its much more convenient for players to take off and head back to the hotel then bother themselves with kids seeking autographs.  I recall Jay in an interview once saying if people are going to camp and braving the heat to see them, he encourages the players to sign and interact with fans.  So I do typically come out liking on a personal level the players that will literally sweat some more after practice to please kids.  Maybe in part because when i was a kid I collected baseball autographs and there were some players (even stars) that would almost always take the time to sign, including Cal Ripkin.

 

On that front, here are those that I was impressed with:

 

1. Guice:  he will sign and sign and sign and chat with fans nonstop.  He doesn't do it (at least not while I was there) in the first practice but does it after walk throughs

2.  Haskins:  he signs for a long time but not as long as Guice.  It's Guice and Haskins by a mile who interacted most with the fans.  Haskins signed in both practices each day

3.  Josh Norman:  he was the last guy practicing every day i was there and he signed after at least one practice every day and for a long time. Ditto 2 years ago when I was there.

4.  Kerrigan:  he always signs.  Ditto 2 years ago when I was there but he doesn't do so for a long time when he does it

5.  Tim Settle:  signed multiple times, thanked fans for coming

6.  Landon Collins:  signed multiple times but for a short period

7.  Peterson:  signed, he was pretty cool with fans, took photos, etc.  He had his own pen on him to sign which was unique.

8.  Sweat signed at least once -- I think twice

9.  Jordan Reed:  signed once, he signed when I was at camp 2 years ago too

10.  Richardson: signed once

 

Others:  Quick, A. Alexander, Hopkins, Doug Williams, Perine.

 

Of the bigger named players: unless I missed it when he did it, I think Jonathan Allen is a real tough get.  I haven't seen him in either camp year I've been at sign for anyone or take photos or even talk to fans.  Watching Redskins Nation, I have seen him do it in military appreciation events.  I haven't seen Ionnaidis or Payne sign.  I don't think I've ever seen Doctson or Colt do it.  

 

But yeah Guice and Haskins gave an insane amount of time as to signing autographs -- probably give or take 20-30 minutes each time for Haskins and 30-40 minutes for Guice.  

 

[RandyHolt]

Thanks SIP - who is is dominating at camp reporting - blowing away all the beat guys.  Seriously no joking that level of detail compiled over the course of camp - you would have Jay's playbook and roster figured out.   Reed getting a massage by an elevator?  Maybe he's uncomfortable being alone with someone. I hear its all the rage among some politicians  

 

Staying on topic I am happy to hear we are using Haskins legs.  I called bunk that "he couldn't run" or whatever baloney we heard on draft day. Heck even Tom Brady eclipsed 1000 rushing yards. I had concerns that he may be out of shape watching him sweat during OTAs and if so running is the best remedy for that. And also the best remedy for helping a young QB survive in the NFL.   He aspires to be a pure pocket passer but we know runs are coming, and its often a big part of an OCs playbook for a rookie QB. 

 

I hope SIP is right and that we have added RPOs to our playbook. It's a copy cat league and the lowly Eagles used it to win a bowl, while our offense seemed very simple and predictable.  I am curious if OSU ran a lot of RPO - if so it's a tell that Jay is catering his playbook to Haskins which is what I have been wanting insight on... I feel strongly that is a big player in a young QBs short term successes. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

@RandyHolt

 

Thanks.  Yeah my issue with some of the beat guys (Keim maybe the exception because he's more careful on this count) is you can present really any narrative when you focus on a play or two.  For example, I can film a nice Doctson catch or a bad drop.  Whatever they put on twitter is what gets dissected and then you get these exaggerated implications as to what it means.  For example as good as Haskins was on Sunday, he was at best IMO hit and miss with fade passes.  IMO that was his weak point that day.  But I saw on twitter someone post his nicest fade pass that was caught by Quinn.  So yeah if you post that with a superlative comment then it leaves people with the impression that he just kills it on fade passes.  Ditto if you highlight a negative pass, etc. 

 

My point is you got to watch it all I think to digest a unit and players.  And I don't see how it's possible to have a read on all units in one practice.  For starters most of the time different units are practicing on different fields.  So when I see daily reports that have a little dose of everything -- the first thing that strikes me is the reporters were switching off watching different units at different times.  If you do that, i don't see how you can get the full picture and instead its really this is what I saw when I happened to look that way.  

 

So I tried to zone in on the offense, especially QBs and receivers. 

 

Yeah to me it looked like there is some match with off field rhetoric to what I saw in practice.  Jay's off season comments about the TE's telegraphing run-pass -- that seemed to be addressed with multiple TE sets, and them throwing the ball a lot to guys who are typically blockers who don't catch much.  Haskins being on the move quite a bit -- surprised me -- and it seemed like it was in the context of RPOs.   They rotated their backs a lot.  And in that mix they were catching a bunch of balls in space and there were a lot of tosses as opposed to just straight handoffs.  It had the look that this will be a grind and pound type of offense with the RBs threatening the perimeter at times and Quinn and Reed threatening the inside.  I'd presume it would set up play action well to go deep whenever teams crowd the line of scrimmage.

 

Watching all of that it gave me the vibe that teams would play the Redskins tight around the line of scrimmage for obvious reasons.  Maybe cover 1 or cover 2 where you can keep multiple guys underneath to stop the short passing stuff.  Though cover 2 is vulnerable to the run.   Just spit balling on that but those are my initial thoughts.

[Renegade7]

14 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

 Jackson started the season on the bench though. So did Mayfield. 

 

Haskins should start if he shows he’s ready and wins the job. Whenever that is. No need to force it if Keenum or McCoy look better right now.

 

Its not often you get players with that little starting experience in college with the expectations Haskins had.  Panthers went through that with Cam Newton, he started all 16 games his rookie season. 

 

Hes already the most talents QB on the roster, McCoy is only comparable because how well he knows the offense and Case has been in the league so long, neither of them are NFL starters.  You can make an argument for why none of them should be starting, so why not the future of the franchise if all he really needs is more experience? 

 

Theres only so much Haskins is going to get on the bench, hes going to get the kitchen sink thrown at him no matter when his first game is, get it out the way.

[RandyHolt]

I want to use RBs as receivers, and not just as a desperation dump off at their feet. They are usually safe short throws and should be in Haskins training wheels playbook.

 

But send their ass deep sometimes too; make a LB chase CT downfield. Lets not run him into a brickwall as often, ok Jay? RBs can provide the best mismatches but not if you make them a blocker on every pass play, which exposes THEM as the potential mismatch. Or, only have 1 RB on the field a majority of the time.

 

It seems like over the past 2 years, as CT went, our offense went. When he was out, our O was dead in the water.  Its no surprise the top players on fantasy draft boards are almost all down backs, Jeremy Sprinkled in with the top studs at WR. It's not the running, it's the hands. RB is the strength of our offense. I have never bought in when a back says he "needs 20 carries before I can expect to break one" and pad my stats. Tough **** dude can't you catch it's a passing league now despite Jay's run on first ambitions.  The Giants had the 3 headed attack. Backups come in and do just fine, we call it change of pace. I want to see more multi backs and no not Ryan Anderson.  I think we are looking at a split load of AP / Guice. AP the vet to start early on at least because that is what coaches do.

 

It sure seems like there will be no RB competition at all and that Perine will be solely injury insurance aka the preseason work horse.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Is anyone concerned that when Haskins plays the preseason game(s) where he's 2nd or 3rd QB in the game, that our 2nd or 3rd string LT might get him crushed ?

Because remember this : just because our 2nd or 3rd strings are in there, it doesn't mean the other team will do the same. Some teams have been known to leave

their 1st or 2nd stringers in much longer than others.

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Is anyone concerned that when Haskins plays the preseason game(s) where he's 2nd or 3rd QB in the game, that our 2nd or 3rd string LT might get him crushed ?

Because remember this : just because our 2nd or 3rd strings are in there, it doesn't mean the other team will do the same. Some teams have been known to leave

their 1st or 2nd stringers in much longer than others.

 

He’s still supposed to be smart enough to know when he’s beat and throw the ball away. So if he can’t do that by then, then he needs to learn it before it’s that fat dude from the ravens who ruined my life in 2012. 

 

So so it could still be a positive experience for him. He’s going to have to be smart enough to learn something from it.